Marion's shot

[KANIDJA]

I find it strange that we never see an article about his shootig style. No coach ever tried to change it?
I am pretty sure that if he was releasing the ball above his head, like everyone else, he would be Kobe/McGrady type of a player. Now, he can't get his shot of whenever he wants because he is relaying on quickness too much. He doesn't go to the free throw line enougth because the ball is always between him and the defender, so there is no body contact. He can not hang in the air because of this because he is shooting as soon as he jumps in fear of getting his shot blocked. Latest example is that game in Denver when he threw two bricks in the 4th quarter and lost us a game. I mean, what does he have to lose. He is not a great shooter, and in a couple of years with lots of practicing he can easily shot better than he is shooting now. And with his quickness he can become top 10 player in the league if not top 5.
Another issue is his defense. He is quick but is constantly abused by other players. I can't figure it out. Is he quick enough to move laterally or does he go for the fakes too often because of his quickness? He has all the attributes but I guess he is not intelligent enough to put it all together. Know what I am saying?

Well, to be honest, I would defintely trade Marion for a first round pick and expiring or tradeable contracts. Or maybe even for a cap space. Any opinions?

 

[F-Dog]

The thing with Marion is that he's got very small hands. The advantage of his shooting form is that he keeps the ball under control until it's released; he could never shoot as well with 'correct' form, because the ball would move around in his hand while he was trying to shoot it. That's my guess, anyway.

I agree that his shooting form (and his game in general) doesn't help him get to the line. Eventually he'll develop some more variety around the basket, but there are going to be limits.


Saying that Marion has 'top 5' potential is just silly, and I for one have no problem with the Suns giving a max contract to the 25th- or 30th-best player in the league. His quickness is what got him to this point in the first place. Everybody gets abused once in a while at SF--there are too many different kinds of players at the position.


It's really stupid to have a "trade Marion" post every time he has a bad shooting game or something. Didn't he bust the Blazers with 16 rebounds last week? Where were you then?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Man F-Dog, you are way more tolerant about the trade marion posts than I am at this point.

You were right on with everything you said. Just to be more specific about the defense,


Marion has great team defense, similar to how Penny was. He plays the passing lanes extremely well. He plays good man to man defense as long as he isn't guarding someone who is 6'10.

That is why Lewis usually abuses him, he has like 3 inches on him. Also, in the Denver game (and often under FJ) Marion was playing PF. Of course he will get burned.

 

[George O'Brien]

This year he is shooting 42.6% and 32.1% for 3. Last season Shawn was shooting 45.2% and 38.7%. The year before, he shot 46.9% and 39.3% for 3.

Compare this to Allan Iverson who is shooting 38.6% and 29.9% for three. Iverson's career shooting is 41.8% and 31.1% for 3.

Or how about Paul Pierce who is shooting 40.6% from the field and 33.5% for 3 and has a career average of 43.5% and 36.5% for 3.

Another guy who is having an off year is Kobe who is shooting only 42.3% from the field and 34.8% for 3.

Don't get me wrong, I am not comparing Shawn to those guys. I'm just suggesting that Shawn is having an off year and is likely to be return to his former form just as everyone expects Kobe to return to his former form.

 

[Joe Mama]

Where did we hear or see that Shawn Marion has small hands? I was always under the impersonation that he has rather large hands.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Where did we hear or see that Shawn Marion has small hands? I was always under the impersonation that he has rather large hands.

Joe Mama

His hands seem fine when it comes to rebounding.

 

[JCSunsfan]

How kind.

Small hands? Good grief, I guarantee you that my hands are smaller than JJ's and I can shoot with proper form. Its just a bad habit. I am sure coaches have tried to change it, but the player has to actually do it. If the player won't do it, the only option you have is to sit him. But Marion is too talented to do that.

We're not trading Marion!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

In no way would I trade Marion.

The guy is an asset to the team on AND off the court.

I feel that he has struggled because he has been forced to play out of position and has been getting beaten up playing against larger players.

When Amare is healthy Marion will be fine. He will continue to fill up the box score in many ways outside of scoring...and yet still maintain around a 20 pt scoring average.

Yes Marion is the ultimate complementary player. That isn't a bad thing. I would say that if Marion made like 2 million a year less...not a single person would be complaining.

 

[cly2tw]

Marion hops around on the court. JJ glides smoothly around on the court, like MJ, Pippen, Kobe. This is more important a difference that makes Marion what he is: not a good one-on-one defender or scorer. The low release shooting form only aggreviates his shortcomings a bit!

Whether he is an asset can be judged on how much other teams would pay to acquire him. So, which team would want him with his contract for what price? Even with his "normal" stats, I'd accept him on my team with no more than 5-6 mil per year.

 

[arthurracoon]

Has everyone forgotten that he added 15-20 lbs of muscle this year. It might be making him learn to shoot again. It will definately feel different.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by cly2tw
Marion hops around on the court. JJ glides smoothly around on the court, like MJ, Pippen, Kobe. This is more important a difference that makes Marion what he is: not a good one-on-one defender or scorer. The low release shooting form only aggreviates his shortcomings a bit!

Let's not get carried away. JJ has had some great games since the trade, but IMO he hasn't earned the right to be compared to those guys. Yet.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Originally posted by cly2tw


Whether he is an asset can be judged on how much other teams would pay to acquire him. So, which team would want him with his contract for what price? Even with his "normal" stats, I'd accept him on my team with no more than 5-6 mil per year.

Then he wouldn't be on your team. Someone would pay Marion more than that.

Maybe we can throw 11 million at some scrub center instead.

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Where did we hear or see that Shawn Marion has small hands? I was always under the impersonation that he has rather large hands.

Joe Mama

Sorry-no backup. Maybe it's not even right.

I remember hearing or reading once that Marion can't palm the ball, saying to myself, "oh, that's why he always dunks with two hands, and why the ball rattles around when he goes for rebound dunks", and that was the end of it.

I think I recall seeing Marion shoot one-handed on Best Sports Show Ever, but I wasn't paying much attention. I guess he's just so much better the other way that it's too late to change.

Or something.

 

[dyle_ph1]

About Marion and getting to the foul line...I notice that he is a step too early in jumping when he drives to the basket. If he only takes one more step or a "hop", he'll be able to draw more contact and get fouls...

 

[George O'Brien]

Sometimes I think Marion has too much hang time. Refs think it must be a charge because the guy had his feet set, but long after Marion jumped. The advantage of taking the extra step is to change direction and not let guys get away with blocking fouls.

 

[Tank]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Sometimes I think Marion has too much hang time. Refs think it must be a charge because the guy had his feet set, but long after Marion jumped. The advantage of taking the extra step is to change direction and not let guys get away with blocking fouls.

I have always hated that. I wish the rule would be that the defender has to have his feet set before the offensive player is in the air. Probably about 90% of the time, this wouldn't affect any calls, but it would make it a better call the other 10%.

 

[Errntknght]

That is the rule but refs don't always see what actually happens... if a guy looks out of control they'll almost always call a charge regardless of how late the defender was. And a good flop often carries the day even though it is after the fact as far as the collision goes. Heck, I'd be happy if the refs would make the call against the flopper even if they thought it was a charge - on the basis that the guy is flopping because he knows he wasn't really fouled.

Franklly, I think the way it's called is sort of backwards - if the defender is just standing there doiing nothing then he's a lot more likely to draw a charge than if he jumps and puts his hands up to defend against the shot. That's against the spirit of the game... the lattitude should go to an active defender not the passive one. Something like a passive defender has to be in position a full step before the would be scorer is airborne while a guy that is really playing defense has only to abide by the current rules. That would stop these flop artist charge takers that really aren't even taking a charge...

 

[George O'Brien]

You are right. The rules need some rethinking. It seems like the refs make more charging foul calls than blocking fouls, which is absud considering how high guys can jump. But at the same time, the slightest contact on an attempt to block a layup on a fast break is called a foul.

In any case, the unwillingness of the refs to call the same action the same way consistently really hurts the game.