Malcom Butler

[Mainstreet]

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If it's any consolation he will not receive most of the money at least from the Cardinals.

 

[Dayman]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si...ilson-opportunity-nfl-draft-arizona-cardinals

Whether it was due to his injuries or another reason, Wilson didn't play to the same level as he did during his freshmen campaign, a year in which he was named to the Coaches All-SEC Freshmen Team. Over the past two years, Wilson gave up a completion percentage in coverage of 69.2% on 104 targets, compared to 42.5% on 40 targets in 2017. He was also penalized eight times from 2019-20 and not once as a freshman.

I will just leave this here.

I sincerely hope that Wilson pans out, but the shoe throwing incident wasn't the only reason he fell.

 

[Krangodnzr]

They had Aeneas. Let's give this crew a chance to show what they can do!

I actually mis-typed. I meant the post-Aeneas Cardinals depth chart. The Cardinals drafted Michael Stone in the 2nd round and he couldn't play at all and ended up as a decent gunner.

When I look at the roster, I look at the roster vs. all the other Cardinals teams and then obviously vs. our current division.

This Cardinals roster is one of the better Cardinals rosters that I've seen since I started following the team during the Bugel/Ryan years. Easily. The only teams that might be better are the Arians years, and even then, I think only 2015 had a better roster top to bottom. The big caveat is that I think the NFC West is historically good right now. The Cardinals probably have the third best roster (I think Seattle's isn't as good) but they could place 4th in the division and win 6 games.

Losing Butler isn't a big blow in a vacuum, but if you look at the health of CB, the team was relying on him to play a lot of snaps, and who is going to play those snaps?

I like what I've seen from Murphy and Wilson. The narrative on Murphy around here is false overall; he struggled as a rookie as most rookie CBs do and was approximately an average starter last year. He's not a bad starter, he's an NFL average starter at CB. That means one CB playing a lot of snaps will be an NFL average starter. It's gets gloomier from there. The average team plays at least three corners, so that means the Cardinals are relying on Wilson and Alford to be at least a league average starter. This is a recipe for having a season long problem area.

Corners don't grow on trees and I think the best we can hope for is that Alford plays all year and is average, Wilson has moments but struggles a bit, and Murphy steps up to become an above average cover man. In no way will this group be an above average group. Mediocrity is the hope, and divisions aren't won when mediocrity is the hope at an important position group.

 

[BritCard]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si...ilson-opportunity-nfl-draft-arizona-cardinals


I will just leave this here.

I sincerely hope that Wilson pans out, but the shoe throwing incident wasn't the only reason he fell.

I can't say why he dropped off. There was a coaching change and I wondered if he just didn't suit Todd Grantham's defense. I don't think it helps that after his good freshman year he didn't play in 2018. Then when he came back in '19 they had him predominantly playing slot (what they call Star) with Henderson and Gardner-Johnson outside. Then back to outside again last year.

FWIW I don't think the shoe thing had anything to do with his draft position. I think fans make much more of that than GM's ever would. I think his draft position was purely down to the drop off in form the last 2 years.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I actually mis-typed. I meant the post-Aeneas Cardinals depth chart. The Cardinals drafted Michael Stone in the 2nd round and he couldn't play at all and ended up as a decent gunner.

When I look at the roster, I look at the roster vs. all the other Cardinals teams and then obviously vs. our current division.

This Cardinals roster is one of the better Cardinals rosters that I've seen since I started following the team during the Bugel/Ryan years. Easily. The only teams that might be better are the Arians years, and even then, I think only 2015 had a better roster top to bottom. The big caveat is that I think the NFC West is historically good right now. The Cardinals probably have the third best roster (I think Seattle's isn't as good) but they could place 4th in the division and win 6 games.

Losing Butler isn't a big blow in a vacuum, but if you look at the health of CB, the team was relying on him to play a lot of snaps, and who is going to play those snaps?

I like what I've seen from Murphy and Wilson. The narrative on Murphy around here is false overall; he struggled as a rookie as most rookie CBs do and was approximately an average starter last year. He's not a bad starter, he's an NFL average starter at CB. That means one CB playing a lot of snaps will be an NFL average starter. It's gets gloomier from there. The average team plays at least three corners, so that means the Cardinals are relying on Wilson and Alford to be at least a league average starter. This is a recipe for having a season long problem area.

Corners don't grow on trees and I think the best we can hope for is that Alford plays all year and is average, Wilson has moments but struggles a bit, and Murphy steps up to become an above average cover man. In no way will this group be an above average group. Mediocrity is the hope, and divisions aren't won when mediocrity is the hope at an important position group.

this is fair. That pass rush is going to have to be one of the absolute best in the league or we are going to get thrown on an ugly amount.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I sure hope you aren't left with egg on your face come season's end, because this is extremely bold. I very much feel we didn't do nearly enough at one of the most important positions on the field, and that was WITH the Butler signing. I hope you're right and I'm wrong on this one, but...yeah, it's not looking good at CB.



I'll be waiting waiting to give yinz each a giant internet jug of Kool Aid to drink in celebration if you're right. I'm not joking, either--this is an honest sentiment. It would be freaking awesome to finally hit on a draft pick like this.

I'm in the middle between you and @BritCard .

I don't think enough was done, but I also don't think the team is going to give 500 yards passing a game. I think it will be a problem area, but if the front seven plays fairly well, it won't be the disaster some are portending.

Butler was a decent signing as was Dennard, but William Jackson would make this group a good one. He was available and Keim didn't go hard after him, or at least there is no indication that he did.

 

[Krangodnzr]

this is fair. That pass rush is going to have to be one of the absolute best in the league or we are going to get thrown on an ugly amount.

I was actually shocked when I started looking a QB Rating given up last year. The numbers didn't really paint what we saw. By and large, the Cardinals pass defense wasn't atrocious last year even if it felt like it at times.

Kirkpatrick actually gave up the lowest QB Rating, I think it was around an 80. Murphy was second best and he gave up like a 90. For reference, league average is 92, so Murphy was a bit below league average. That's why it's not entirely misplaced to think Murphy can play a little better and get down to like an 80 QB rating, which is above average.

We've all seen the rankings, and the Cardinals defense was around 12th last year. It never really felt like they were that good.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think the Cards may pick up a corner regardless because we are only carrying five right now but it’s not unheard of to have an outside corner move inside in nickel sets. Troy hill did it for the rams and Humphrey and Chris Harris also do this I believe. It’s more about a slot skill set but I actually think Wilson would fit this role better than Murphy with his quickness.

Jalen Ramsey did this a lot LAST YEAR. And there were a number of articles this offseason talking about how Ramsey will continue to slide into the slot on third down.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I actually mis-typed. I meant the post-Aeneas Cardinals depth chart. The Cardinals drafted Michael Stone in the 2nd round and he couldn't play at all and ended up as a decent gunner.

When I look at the roster, I look at the roster vs. all the other Cardinals teams and then obviously vs. our current division.

This Cardinals roster is one of the better Cardinals rosters that I've seen since I started following the team during the Bugel/Ryan years. Easily. The only teams that might be better are the Arians years, and even then, I think only 2015 had a better roster top to bottom. The big caveat is that I think the NFC West is historically good right now. The Cardinals probably have the third best roster (I think Seattle's isn't as good) but they could place 4th in the division and win 6 games.

Man, I truly appreciate your enthusiasm, and wish I felt the same way. Malcolm Butler and Fitz ain't quitting if they think this is a good team.

I'm really mystified as to how you see this as a powerhouse team. Where is the abundance of established talent? We have 4 players that can legitimately qualify as top 10 talent at their position. (Nuk/Hudson/Budda/Jones) Kyler can be an MVP, but at this point isn't a top 10 QB yet. Where are the difference makers on offense or defense? If you're relying on the AJ Greens and Watts of the world, you're going to be disappointed.

I see a team that is severely lacking leadership all around, that will only be successful if a bunch of unlikely things happen. More than anything, I'm so disappointed that this is the roster they've built around a Kyler rookie contract. The contrast of talent between this squad vs. the Kap Niners/Wilson Seahawks is stunning.

Giving this group a cop out of "historically tough division" is weak. Everyone said the same thing last year, and the division wasn't even the best in football. All we had to do to make the playoffs was win one of two games against a backup QB!

 

[QuebecCard]

Man, I truly appreciate your enthusiasm, and wish I felt the same way. Malcolm Butler and Fitz ain't quitting if they think this is a good team.

I'm really mystified as to how you see this as a powerhouse team. Where is the abundance of established talent? We have 4 players that can legitimately qualify as top 10 talent at their position. (Nuk/Hudson/Budda/Jones) Kyler can be an MVP, but at this point isn't a top 10 QB yet. Where are the difference makers on offense or defense? If you're relying on the AJ Greens and Watts of the world, you're going to be disappointed.

I see a team that is severely lacking leadership all around, that will only be successful if a bunch of unlikely things happen. More than anything, I'm so disappointed that this is the roster they've built around a Kyler rookie contract. The contrast of talent between this squad vs. the Kap Niners/Wilson Seahawks is stunning.

Giving this group a cop out of "historically tough division" is weak. Everyone said the same thing last year, and the division wasn't even the best in football. All we had to do to make the playoffs was win one of two games against a backup QB!

I was going to stop reading when you suggested that Malcolm Butler had deliberately made a statement about the team that cost him $3.25m, but out of respect read on until your dubious claim about present "leadership". This isn't a 'powerhouse' but it will be a tough out for any team they face.

 

[bankybruce]

Such an odd situation.

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[Cheesebeef]

Really wanted us to sign Steve Nelson to round out our really questionable CB room, even after signing Butler. Now I wish we had done so even more.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Man, I truly appreciate your enthusiasm, and wish I felt the same way. Malcolm Butler and Fitz ain't quitting if they think this is a good team.

I'm really mystified as to how you see this as a powerhouse team. Where is the abundance of established talent? We have 4 players that can legitimately qualify as top 10 talent at their position. (Nuk/Hudson/Budda/Jones) Kyler can be an MVP, but at this point isn't a top 10 QB yet. Where are the difference makers on offense or defense? If you're relying on the AJ Greens and Watts of the world, you're going to be disappointed.

I see a team that is severely lacking leadership all around, that will only be successful if a bunch of unlikely things happen. More than anything, I'm so disappointed that this is the roster they've built around a Kyler rookie contract. The contrast of talent between this squad vs. the Kap Niners/Wilson Seahawks is stunning.

Giving this group a cop out of "historically tough division" is weak. Everyone said the same thing last year, and the division wasn't even the best in football. All we had to do to make the playoffs was win one of two games against a backup QB!

The Cardinals have quite a few position groups that are above league average. The fact that the team had FOUR players in the top 100 is a testament to the talent. Most teams don't have that many.

The OL should be above average by most accounts. The WRs should be. Murray is an above average QB. TE and RB are lacking, but you can win with those positions being decent role players.

The front seven as a whole is really good, and has nice quality through out to include the reserves. CB is a big question mark, but Safety has a top player and good depth through out.

There is a reason that ESPN ranked the Cardinals talent top ten this year, the team has plenty of talent. When aggregating overall roster talent, ESPN ranked the Cardinals NINTH. This is a talented team based on the opinions of MANY observers. My view isn't fringe.

I do agree that the Cardinals don't approach the level of talent that Wilson had under his rookie contract, but you have to remember that he was a third round pick who stepped on to a VERY TALENTED TEAM his rookie year. Kaepernick had almost the same dynamic as well! That context matters.

 

[BritCard]

Such an odd situation.

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FWIW it sounds like Butler went on reserve retired as part of getting to 53 rather than he made a concrete decision. It still sounds like there's a chance he will play, even if small.

Although not sure I want him back if any of the rumors are true or this his him being a diva over starting.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The Cardinals have quite a few position groups that are above league average.

Which ones? I'm genuinely curious.

QB - above
RB - below
WR - average
OL - average
TE- well below average

DL - average at best
LB - totally unknown
Secondary - bad at CB, good at S

For comparative purposes, we could limit it to the division?

The fact that the team had FOUR players in the top 100 is a testament to the talent. Most teams don't have that many.

Again - do you want to compare the top end talent of the Cards to the teams just in our division? 32 teams, 100 top players, 3-4 is about average.

I do agree that the Cardinals don't approach the level of talent that Wilson had under his rookie contract, but you have to remember that he was a third round pick who stepped on to a VERY TALENTED TEAM his rookie year. Kaepernick had almost the same dynamic as well! That context matters.

The context is irrelevant - the results matter. The Niners and Seahawks drafted well beyond their QB's, which is why they were loaded and competed for championships, and why we're not and won't.

Unless Green and Watt stay healthy and turn back the clock, you have a lot of questions about both WR and DL. Unless Murphy/Wilson/Unless Kyler turns into an MVP, this is likely not a playoff team, and we're starting from scratch.

We have far too many question marks heading into the season on the roster, and that doesn't even begin to address a coaching staff that can't stop stepping in it.

I hate feeling like this going into a season, but if we go into Tennessee and get stomped, I think it could portend for a very long year. Maybe it's what is needed to purge the Keim/KK curse.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I was going to stop reading when you suggested that Malcolm Butler had deliberately made a statement about the team that cost him $3.25m, but out of respect read on until your dubious claim about present "leadership". This isn't a 'powerhouse' but it will be a tough out for any team they face.

That's an incredible leap, congrats! How would you like to portray a player, still not near the end choosing not to play for the Cards?

What's your motto for this year - we'll give you a good game? Can't wait for another season of KK giving the other team credit for a great gameplan! Wheeee!

 

[Mainstreet]

Man, I truly appreciate your enthusiasm, and wish I felt the same way. Malcolm Butler and Fitz ain't quitting if they think this is a good team.

I'm really mystified as to how you see this as a powerhouse team. Where is the abundance of established talent? We have 4 players that can legitimately qualify as top 10 talent at their position. (Nuk/Hudson/Budda/Jones) Kyler can be an MVP, but at this point isn't a top 10 QB yet. Where are the difference makers on offense or defense? If you're relying on the AJ Greens and Watts of the world, you're going to be disappointed.

I see a team that is severely lacking leadership all around, that will only be successful if a bunch of unlikely things happen. More than anything, I'm so disappointed that this is the roster they've built around a Kyler rookie contract. The contrast of talent between this squad vs. the Kap Niners/Wilson Seahawks is stunning.

Giving this group a cop out of "historically tough division" is weak. Everyone said the same thing last year, and the division wasn't even the best in football. All we had to do to make the playoffs was win one of two games against a backup QB!

There is enough time for reality when it slaps us in the face.

A lot of my concern is whether Kliff Kingsbury and Kyler Murray can take the next step. Admittedly I don't have a lot of faith in Kingsbury as a head coach. Also it''s hard to get excited about the present cornerback situation.

 

[QuebecCard]

That's an incredible leap, congrats! How would you like to portray a player, still not near the end choosing not to play for the Cards?

What's your motto for this year - we'll give you a good game? Can't wait for another season of KK giving the other team credit for a great gameplan! Wheeee!

I don't know how I would characterize Butler's departure because.... wait for it... I don't know!

But, that said - the thought that he simply decided to pass on $3.25m as a statement strikes me as just plain silly.

My motto is... make sure you have clean underwear and shop wisely.

As for the team, I hope it's... play hard for 60 minutes.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Which ones? I'm genuinely curious.

QB - above
RB - below
WR - average
OL - average
TE- well below average

DL - average at best
LB - totally unknown
Secondary - bad at CB, good at S

For comparative purposes, we could limit it to the division?



Again - do you want to compare the top end talent of the Cards to the teams just in our division? 32 teams, 100 top players, 3-4 is about average.

The context is irrelevant - the results matter. The Niners and Seahawks drafted well beyond their QB's, which is why they were loaded and competed for championships, and why we're not and won't.

Unless Green and Watt stay healthy and turn back the clock, you have a lot of questions about both WR and DL. Unless Murphy/Wilson/Unless Kyler turns into an MVP, this is likely not a playoff team, and we're starting from scratch.

We have far too many question marks heading into the season on the roster, and that doesn't even begin to address a coaching staff that can't stop stepping in it.

I hate feeling like this going into a season, but if we go into Tennessee and get stomped, I think it could portend for a very long year. Maybe it's what is needed to purge the Keim/KK curse.

I stated which groups were above average and the ones that weren't.

The context DOES MATTER. You can say it doesn't but it always matter. Wilson was drafted to a VERY TALENTED team, year one. Same thing for Kaepernick! It's gosh darn apples and oranges. I agree MORE could have been done over the past two years, but it's not like talent hasn't been added on both sides of the ball.

You state that Watt has to turn the clock back, but he played over 1000 snaps last year! And was the most double teamed edge player in the league. Do facts matter in this disagreement, or are we discussing feelings here? Watt was a very good player....LAST year LOL.

Every team has question marks. Have you looked at the Seahawks AND Niners CB group? The Rams lost a ton of talent and are replacing them with unproven players or players who haven't shown much.

The difference right now, is that 1) The Cardinals can't rely on running the ball. Murray is going to have to be the focal point and he has struggles that could derail the team. 2) The CB group is suspect and the potential for injury across the roster is a concern.

My concern for the greater health of the team going forward is that Keim can probably build a talented team every 3-4 years because he doesn't build through the draft. You can't stay relevant for long when you rely on free agency and trades.

 

[Arz101]

PLUS, One of Cardinals starting CBs is in Covid protocol. Robert Alford. Will he even be healthy with football strength to play a full game in 10 days?

 

[BritCard]

Rasul Douglas is a good pickup. Played 900 snaps last year and had a PFF grade only slightly behind Murphy.

Still plenty of potential in him.

And he has size which is something we don't have. At 6'2" and 210lbs he gives us something in the RZ.

 

[juza76]

Rasul Douglas is a good pickup. Played 900 snaps last year and had a PFF grade only slightly behind Murphy.

Still plenty of potential in him.

And he has size which is something we don't have. At 6'2" and 210lbs he gives us something in the RZ.

Has been cut two times in a week, so maybe there is something wrong

 

[BritCard]

Has been cut two times in a week, so maybe there is something wrong

The 2nd cut is not surprising. No time to show anything before final cuts. Seen lots of that recently even with traded players.

 

[gmabel830]

Douglas being signed to our practice squad

 

[juza76]

Certainly the name is cool
The villain of batman begins