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spanky1

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Arguing about a back up who was cut........gheeeez. While it is clear Lucas was not a "bum", he wasn't going to make a contribution over and above being a back up......pure and simple. Green is trying to identify young players who can step up.......and if they can't, they'll be down the road just as Lucas is. He obviously feels that Adrian Mayes (or someone) will amount to more........and can any Lucas defender be sure to the contrary?
 

azdad1978

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Crimson Warrior said:
We'll see what Marmie does with Lucas in Stl.

I can't believe that Marmie got a job with a team in our own division. Its scary and hilarious at the same time.

I want to see Quan catch some crossing routes against that famous bend-don't-break defense Marmie always called on 3rd and 15.


I wouldn't be surprised the reason why Marmie got a job is because of the relationship Marmie and Martz had in their ASU day together.
 

Tangodnzr

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I don't think it's so much a matter of whether the move may actually turn out to be a good one, in and of itself, that I'm "arguing about". I certainly didn't expect Lucas to start, and only time will tell if one of these "young guys" we're hearing so much about blossoms into a nice gem.

My arguement is more that blow-hard/know it all Green nose is posting his trash the way he has on this thread. I seem to generally cut him as much slack as anyone. His broken record, machine gun posts do indeed tend to become more and more like background noise.
His worn our story of being an expert on how to improve this team, when he, in reality doesn't even really know much about it, first hand. Yet he talks like he's right there with the team everyday and has a lock on talent evalution and everything else.

The simple fact is .......he doesn't really know Jack in that respect.

Is Quentin Harris still on the team? Didn't he already get cut? If not, then I'm not quite as nervous about letting Lucas go. Lucas also generally played moe of the strong safety position, not necessarily the free safety one. I don't think he's the fastest player on the team, by any means, and as a nickel/dime back maybe it will turn out to be an upgrade to the secondary. But that also leaves us dreadfully thin at the strong safety position especially if Harris is not here either.

As to this arguement that some pose in regard to players presently on the team must automatically be dogs just because of the 4-12 record last year is not a convincing one to me at all. Yes, certainly there needed to be some talent upgrade, especially in the secondary. But there were a lot, lot, of reasons why last year's record was what it was that I would say had more to do with it than just spewing out that meaningless little over-generalization.

Start with the coaching. And BTW. show me how Justin Lucas' play, for example was such a major contributor to the ineptness.....I don't think it can be done.

I really do hope this move works out just fine, and indeed it may. But by the same token, I think some of the displayed rationale/mind-sets here are rather asinine, in that respect...especially Green nose and his "pillow talk".
 

Tangodnzr

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spanky1 said:
Quentin Harris is still on the roster. He actually was resigned not too long ago.

:thumbup:

Good, that takes a little of the "load" off my mind. NOt that I think Harris is going to the pro-bowl this year, but at least we are not paper thin at the Strong safety position.
 
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joeshmo

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spanky1 said:
Arguing about a back up who was cut........gheeeez. While it is clear Lucas was not a "bum", he wasn't going to make a contribution over and above being a back up......pure and simple. Green is trying to identify young players who can step up.......and if they can't, they'll be down the road just as Lucas is. He obviously feels that Adrian Mayes (or someone) will amount to more........and can any Lucas defender be sure to the contrary?

Agreed. Why are we arguing about a freaking backup, who was never going to start, or make a big contribution.

By the way he wasnt a special teams contributer either so I dont know where that is coming from. On special teams last year he had 4 tackles. Special teams difference makers have more then 10 special teams tackels minimum. Lucas special team abilities are a dime a dozen and we have 10 more guys that can easily take his place, in that respect.

As for S depth I fully expect Harris, Mayes, Stone, heck even Goss(has been seen doing some Safety drills in practice) to be able to take Lucas spot without a drop off in talent. I watched Lucas play ever game last year just like most cards fans have and I just dont see what you guys seem to have been seeing to have the abiliy to call him a playmaker. I think you guys need to go back and watch the games again becuase Lucas is no where near the playmaker category. I dont know maybe those who used that adjective were just trying to rile up VF.

I just dont see were this Lucas love is coming from.
 

Tangodnzr

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Like I said before...and speaking for myself only.....It's not so much a matter of "Lucas love". (nice over generalization there).

It's more Green nose's dissing players and other fan's opinion's here, who are , or should be, anyway, more familiar with the team.... as if he knows something they dont...and which he doesn't really have any first hand knowledge of himself.

....and also those who cast out the generalization that just because this team was 4-12 last year, then apparently everyone on the team sucks.

Neither of which I buy at all.
 
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joeshmo

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Crazy Canuck said:
4 pages on Justin Lucas! :stupid:

There is probably only about one page worth of any real content. As always it turns into a VF Green love thread/ VF bashing thread like they always do. Neither is really relevant to the topic.
 

vikesfan

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joeshmo said:
Agreed. Why are we arguing about a freaking backup, who was never going to start, or make a big contribution.

By the way he wasnt a special teams contributer either so I dont know where that is coming from. On special teams last year he had 4 tackles. Special teams difference makers have more then 10 special teams tackels minimum. Lucas special team abilities are a dime a dozen and we have 10 more guys that can easily take his place, in that respect.

As for S depth I fully expect Harris, Mayes, Stone, heck even Goss(has been seen doing some Safety drills in practice) to be able to take Lucas spot without a drop off in talent. I watched Lucas play ever game last year just like most cards fans have and I just dont see what you guys seem to have been seeing to have the abiliy to call him a playmaker. I think you guys need to go back and watch the games again becuase Lucas is no where near the playmaker category. I dont know maybe those who used that adjective were just trying to rile up VF.

I just dont see were this Lucas love is coming from.
Best post in this thread.
 

KingofCards

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I think my judgements on Lucas were clouded by his two int's for touchdowns. The one against the Giants was a game breaker in a forgettable win. But that is basically all he's ever done. I pulled the special teams preformance out of my ass. I sit in the bottom of the North End Zone. 1/2 the game I can't see what is going on and the other 1/2 I am too drunk to remember.


I agree about Goss. I think he is going to make a difference once he gets his chance, he can play cb or safety and appears to willing to do either to make the team.

I was mostly going off on V/F and Adrian "head hunter" Wilson and am tired of being, or seeing people be told by V/F that Green can't make a bad personel decison because he had winning seasons in MN.

I have actually stayed away from posting on the Cardinals Board, sad, because of it.

Might well put a sticky that says: "No discussion needed on any Green move. It was correct a move due to Green's 15-1 record in 1999."
 
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vikesfan

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KingofCards said:
I think my judgements on Lucas were clouded by his two int's for touchdowns. The one against the Giants was a game breaker in a forgettable win.


I agree about Goss. I think he is going to make a difference once he gets his chance, he can play cb or safety and appears to willing to do either to make the team.

I was mostly going off on V/F and Adrian "head hunter" Wilson and am tired of being, or seeing people be told by V/F that Green can't make a bad personel decison because he had winning seasons in MN.

I have actually stayed away from posting on the Cardinals Board, sad, because of it.

Might well put a sticky that says: "No discussion needed on any Green move. It was correct a move due to Green's 15-1 record in 1999."

DG can make bad personnel moves but Lucas sure isn't one of them. I mean if he cut Q that would have been a really bad move. Let's see how the top draft picks work out one of them might bust. All I am saying is maybe people should cut DG a little slack.
 

azdad1978

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vikesfan said:
All I am saying is maybe people should cut DG a little slack.

We do but DG this and DG that is getting old and repetitive. You don't have to stand up for your boy all the time. He's a grown man and being criticize comes with the job being a head coach.
 

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azdad1978 said:
We do but DG this and DG that is getting old and repetitive. You don't have to stand up for your boy all the time. He's a grown man and being criticize comes with the job being a head coach.
I have no problem with fair criticism but getting ripped for Lucas???
 

azdad1978

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vikesfan said:
I have no problem with fair criticism but getting ripped for Lucas???


You open yourself for making assumption about the diehards that we don't know what we are talking about here, what do you expect?
 

KingofCards

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vikesfan said:
I have no problem with fair criticism but getting ripped for Lucas???
Oh were talking about Justin Lucas. I thought we were talking about this guy.

You must be registered for see images attach
 

vikesfan

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azdad1978 said:
You open yourself for making assumption about the diehards that we don't know what we are talking about here, what do you expect?
Dude I don't have the time for assumptions etc. Some diehards agreed with my perspective and others didn't there is no one view here on players. Except on Q.
 

vikesfan

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KingofCards said:
Oh were talking about Justin Lucas. I thought we were talking about this guy.

You must be registered for see images attach

Isn't that Josh? ;)
 

KingofCards

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vikesfan said:
Dude I don't have the time for assumptions etc.
Why not? Too busy reading a different thread?

You appear to have all the time in the world.
 

DevonCardsFan

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I think they released Lucas, for maybe another reason besides clearing up space for younger guys. Maybe he did not want to be a Card, I don't think Green would menbtion that to the press either if that was the case.
 

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KingofCards said:
Lucas seems to be a playmaker. I am sorry to see him go.

That int at the end of the 1st half for a touchdown was beautiful, vs the Giants if my memory serves me right.

good post. Lucas seemed to be around the ball alot.

I like him. I hope he does well in every game except against us
 

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KingofCards said:
Nice stats. I think in his limited playing time he has more int's than Wilson.

Too bad you didn't take the time to line up your stat page to make it readable.

Wilson was going to start over Lucas because of his draft status and "potential". Lucas, when he was in the game, made big plays.

How many sacks or int's has Wilson made? He is big and quick and they do send him on blitzes and he freelanced constantly but never made big plays.

Big hits, yes. Turnovers? Rarely.

Since you've actually decided that fact are necessary in your argument provide a link. Make it easy for the reader to understand your point.

I am going to go look it up myself but I watch every Cards game and am thinking Lucas has more Int's than Wilson and Wilson has like 2 sacks. Plus his rep as a big hitter has caused unnecessary penalties and an ejection last year. Wilson plays every down.

Wilson in my opinion has all the physical tools but lacks focus upstairs. Lucas is never going to be a superstar Safety but I liked him as a Nickle back.
yup :thumbup:
 

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