List of players opting out of season

BritCard

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What an whataboutism ... you can't compair UK Sport with NFL ... CHAMPIONS League or the European Championship would be the equivalant, and that was canceled ... because of the inabillity of UK ... sometimes your arguments are so flawed ...

And to your 6 weeks down the road argument... first of 6 weeks after 12th of july the people that are ill and need ICU and with all of that what happend, you are sure that some of these states don't reopen schools and you start with the same problems, again?

Look, already EU and UK sees rising cases again, what makes you think a state that didn't even contain the first wave till yet, can contain wave two and have a functioning plan for that? I don't see it yet, maybe after the Election and Trump gets kicked out, maybe but till then...

It's no wonder you don't understand when your reading comprehension sucks.

I wasn't comparing UK sport with the NFL. I was using the UK and Spain as a comparison to say, Oregon and Florida. Saying "the USA is bad at Covid" is a very general statement for 50 states with very different responses and outcomes.

But as you brought it up, the EPL just completed nearly 300 games without a single case. Add in the 1000+ games from the lower leagues also without a case. The Europa league and Champions league starts again this week.

The suggestion that the NFL is somehow more risky than say, soccer, is nonsense. Just because some of the players touch each other for a couple of seconds on their pads? Touch transfer risk is tiny unless someone is sticking their hand in someones mouth.

So what then? Proximity? Soccer players spend 90 minutes trying to stay close to each other. 90 minutes. They bunch together in a 12 yard area every time there is a corner or free kick. They clash heads without helmets. They clash bare legs on every tackle. They grab, and touch each other without pads, long sleeves, helmets or gloves on every challenge for the ball. For 90 minutes.

The average NFL game has 11 to 15 minutes actual game time. The idea that NFL is somehow more risky is deluded.

I'm not even sure what this sentence means, "And to your 6 weeks down the road argument... first of 6 weeks after 12th of july the people that are ill and need ICU and with all of that what happend, you are sure that some of these states don't reopen schools and you start with the same problems, again?"

I'll try decipher it. The average time from infection to death is 3 weeks. Not that people are dying at anywhere near the rate they were in March/April (see below). So 6 weeks is more than long enough for these local spikes to pass. As I said in my original posts, thats proven in the infection curves of every state and country that has had a spike.

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And there is absolutely zero evidence schools are a problem. Most of Europe has had schools open for some time before the summer holidays without any spikes. The UK national statistics agency showed back in April that school workers died at a rate 6x less than the national average, despite being open through the peak of the infections. It was one of the safest jobs in the country.

The WHO doesn't have a single track and trace report from any country that shows a child infecting an adult. Not even in the home. Children are less likely to catch it and far less likely to spread it. It's not like influenza where children are super spreaders.

Countries like Switzerland have published data on sources of new cases with only 0.3% (2 of 793) being in schools, and thats children infecting other children neither of which show symptoms.

Now there are some caveats to this. The older the children the greater the risk, and your "children" go to school until 18. Most European countries finish compulsory school at 16. And to be cautious many schools operate in class "bubbles" so there is no intermingling between classes. There's no evidence this makes a difference, but it's a no harm precaution.

But still, there's no reason that schools should start a 2nd spike. They haven't anywhere else.

Last but not least. You can't look at new cases the same way we did back in March or April when 100 new cases equaled 10 deaths down the road. Look at the graph above. A combination of massively increased testing globally, medical interventions and the more vulnerable being cautious means infections are a poor barometer. Especially when 99.6% of people survive it (CDC estimated 0.4% IFR) and 90%+ have no symptoms or a mild fever.

I'll base my decisions on the global evidence and not hysteria.
 
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BritCard

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everything you've written about this getting under control in the Sunbelt also completely ignores that numbers are going up throughout the midwest as well... Illinois, Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, and Missouri all seeing resurgences.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/brief-reprieve-virus-charges-back-152606250.html

in addition to schools starting in person education, possibly creating super-spreader events daily in places where not enough precautions are going to be taken.

What numbers are going up? Infections? And what's the big deal about that if infections and deaths are no longer tethered in the same way?

Illinois deaths are down on what they were in June, despite small incremental increases in cases throughout July. Less than half in fact. From mid 40's at the end of June to 18 at the end of July. Even with a 3 week lag deaths should have been up.

Wisconsin's previous high in cases was on May 29th with 733. They had 738 on July 4th and have since had 20 days higher than that. They are averaging 8 deaths a day in a population of 6m. They were averaging 11 in early June. More probably die of boredom on an average day.

Michigan saw their infections spike in Mid July and is already on the decline. Spike is a tough word to use when they had 1000 cases in a population of 10m and their 7 day rolling average is down from 14 in a day in mid July to 8 currently. Again, out of 10 million people.

Missouri is tougher to analyse. Their increase is very recent but their rolling average is only 11 a day from 6m people. I'd guess they follow the same pattern as above and barely move.


The only one of these states that looks like a true resurgence is Ohio. Who had a consistent increase on cases throughout July and a reasonable increase in deaths from 20 at the end of June to 31 at the end of July (per day). But they already look to have peaked on July 27th with overall cases starting to drop.

None of these look like they would be a problem for football season. Having never got off the ground or already on their way down.

Anyone would think you had a media who wanted to give you the impression that things are worse than they are.
 

BritCard

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There is one major study (Spain 61k) and it showed antibodies dissipating in two weeks for many. So, at the least, Herd immunity has not been established when it comes to this variant of the coronavirus.

And tell us, Doctor, how you've reached the conclusion there will be no second wave?

We already had this conversation. The idea that immune reaction doesn't last is nonsense. And trying to continually lean on this one Spanish study that didn't do anything like what you think it did is nonsense. B cells and T cells play a much more important role in immune response.

Firstly, there are several studies including by the ECDC that antibodies remain around for longer than 2 weeks but also many more studies on the importance of T cells in Covid immunity. Plus it's largely believed there are some levels of cross immunity from other coronaviruses.

Why you ignore all of these and keep trying to suggest immunity only lasts 2 weeks I don't know. Especially when the virus has been around for 8-9 months and there isn't a single proven account of reinfection.

All it does it show how uninformed you are and that you are for some reason determined to make things appear worse than they are.

And just to be clear. You are 100% full of crap in your assertion. The study never said that. It did not even test for that. The study is below as published in The Lancet.

All they did was send a questionnaire to 61,000 people asking them if they had symptoms or not. Then they tested those people for antibodies and found only 5% had them. They have no idea if those 61,000 people actually had Covid at any point.

Of those 61,000 people only 195 had a positive Covid PCR test at some point greater than 2 weeks before the test. Not 2 weeks before, greater than 2 weeks. And of those 195 90% of them had antibodies.

At no point does the study even tackle the issue of how long antibodies last, and in fact found them in 90% of confirmed cases.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31483-5/fulltext
 
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BritCard

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Is that your professional medical opinion?

220 Million Americans need to recover from Covid-19 to achieve effective natural herd immunity....this would mean somewhere around 1-2 million deaths, I believe.

This was from a study and article published by Mayo Clinic at the end of June.

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Did I mention herd immunity?

Let's ignore the fact that the Mayo is assuming that herd immunity requires 65%. It varies greatly and some, like an Oxford univerity study, found that only 20% of the population may only have to catch Covid to provide herd immunity due to immunity already in the population gained from other common coronaviruses.

What I actually said was "high level of natural immunity". Which is a level not sufficient enough to reach the herd immunity threshold, but high enough to severely limit the spread and stop anything that looks like a 2nd wave. Because every immune person is a missing link in a chain.

Herd Immunity doesn't mean everyone becomes magically immune. If you never had a virus before you can always get it. Herd Immunity means that enough people have immunity that a virus cannot grow in spread, that cases would always decrease. So for example, is New York had herd immunity to Covid and 100 people flew in every week carrying it there would still be some people that die but in 2 weeks it would be gone.

But every % point on the path to HIT reduces deaths. If herd immunity is 60% but there's only 30% immunity you will still see a huge decrease in deaths.
 

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We already had this conversation. The idea that immune reaction doesn't last is nonsense. And trying to continually lean on this one Spanish study that didn't do anything like what you think it did is nonsense. B cells and T cells play a much more important role in immune response.

Firstly, there are several studies including by the ECDC that antibodies remain around for longer than 2 weeks but also many more studies on the importance of T cells in Covid immunity. Plus it's largely believed there are some levels of cross immunity from other coronaviruses.

Why you ignore all of these and keep trying to suggest immunity only lasts 2 weeks I don't know. Especially when the virus has been around for 8-9 months and there isn't a single proven account of reinfection.

All it does it show how uninformed you are and that you are for some reason determined to make things appear worse than they are.

And just to be clear. You are 100% full of crap in your assertion. The study never said that. It did not even test for that. The study is below as published in The Lancet.

All they did was send a questionnaire to 61,000 people asking them if they had symptoms or not. Then they tested those people for antibodies and found only 5% had them. They have no idea if those 61,000 people actually had Covid at any point.

Of those 61,000 people only 195 had a positive Covid PCR test at some point greater than 2 weeks before the test. Not 2 weeks before, greater than 2 weeks. And of those 195 90% of them had antibodies.

At no point does the study even tackle the issue of how long antibodies last, and in fact found them in 90% of confirmed cases.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31483-5/fulltext


"Nonsense" when it comes to immunity and for how long includes the conclusive approach you have taken to these issues.

We all hope and wish that you are right, but "scientific" knowledge as it applies to this "novel" strain of the coronavirus from everything that I've read shows that few experts in the field are prepared to say anything nearly as definitive as you are.

They are in the "we are learning more each day" phase of addressing this pandemic.

Based on this, I qualify my opinions. It's the smart thing to do when all the evidence isn't in.

While anecdotal at this point, the following gives food for thought:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-19-relapse-or-reinfection-1.5546771
 

BritCard

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"Nonsense" when it comes to immunity and for how long includes the conclusive approach you have taken to these issues.

We all hope and wish that you are right, but "scientific" knowledge as it applies to this "novel" strain of the coronavirus from everything that I've read shows that few experts in the field are prepared to say anything nearly as definitive as you are.

They are in the "we are learning more each day" phase of addressing this pandemic.

Based on this, I qualify my opinions. It's the smart thing to do when all the evidence isn't in.

While anecdotal at this point, the following gives food for thought:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-19-relapse-or-reinfection-1.5546771

Come on man. You can't say you qualify your opinions when you have been misquoting a study that you obviously never read first hand. Every single thing I have said is based on scientific studies, facts in evidence and statistics. Not bogus media reports and social media posts.

The global media coverage of Covid has been terrible.

It's nonsense articles like this that drive fear. The options are very simple.

1, She never had it the first time, her test was a false positive. They aren't 100% accurate. Or she had a different coranavirus that was incorrectly identified as Covid-19.
2, The same as above but on the 2nd time.
3, She never fully recovered bout 1 and relapsed.
4, She's a freak outlier who's immunity dissipated faster than usual.

The article is written in a way to raise fear that normal immunity might be short lived by never dismissing that possibility. Which it absolutely should.

The virus has been around for 9 months. There are 300k new infections globally everyday. If immunity didn't last at least 6 months we would already be seeing thousands of reinfection reports daily. It's really that simple.
 

Dr. Jones

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To get this back on track, if you're following Patrick Peterson's instagram, it certainly seems like he's pretty amped for a "revengeszn" this year. Be surprised if he opted out.
Agreed. He seems to be locked in right now. I'm pretty hopeful about a rebound for him at this point.
 

TJ

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Highly doubt we see anyone of significance opt out at this point. Maybe a reserve lineman or something, but that's it
 

Chris_Sanders

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Highly doubt we see anyone of significance opt out at this point. Maybe a reserve lineman or something, but that's it

The owners clearly feel there are more coming or they wouldn't be pushing the deadline up. You might be right though that it's just fringey guys who would have had difficulty making the team so they just take the 150k opt out pay and call it good.
 

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Dan Graziano
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Per source, NFL opt-out deadline is now expected to be "Thursday or Friday." Attorneys continue to finalize language of the agreement, but it appears NFLPA will agree to shorten window btwn agreement & deadline (originally 7 days) in return for some concessions on final language.
 

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Tom Pelissero
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While the deadline for players to opt out of the 2020 season most likely will be Thursday, the deal the NFL and NFLPA are finalizing will permit players to opt out later based on certain family or medical circumstances, per sources.
 

Cheesebeef

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Just got an update from ESPM, now In a move that should surprise no one, Marcus Gilbert will not play this year, opting out due to corona concerns.

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kerouac9

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Just got an update from ESPM, now In a move that should surprise no one, Marcus Gilbert will not play this year, opting out due to corona concerns.

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LOL. Huge hit for the Big Red Rage, which has relentlessly been propping up this guy for the last two months.
 

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