Let the debate begin

[Redsz]

Man see this is why you cant talk football with people.


Let me recap. I wouldnt be starting a rookie QB right now. I would still have McCown playing. The difference is we would already have our future. Let McCown play this year if he does well then great we have 2 good QB's ont he roster-imagine that!!! If he doesn't? Cut him loose, here comes the rookie!

What has made me upset was Green'e ego. Coming in, annointing McCown the starter and not even looking to draft a QB for the future. Saying this team is a 10 win team and going to the playoffs-please!

I like what he has done-to a degree- since he took over, but his biggest bunngle to date was not looking towards the future!

So it's irrlevent then isn't it? If McCown was starting then this talk of a drafted QB is useless. The drafted QB wouldn't of made a difference to this game.

 

[conraddobler]

I'm not surprised at all, and this day just further confirms suspicions I've had up to now....I call Sunday's "Dorm day" now, and will now log off as expecting to not see much worthwhile reading until tomorrow sometime.
Sunday's have become almost a total waste of time to read the boards anymore.

See folks if you work hard and try dreams can come true even if only for a day.

 

[conraddobler]

That is why this is totally selfserving crap. I just got back from the game and for anyone here to say we need to replace the QB because he doesn't go thru his reads is just high. MCCOWN HAD ZERO TIME TO THROW THE BALL IN EITHER HALF. We had no running game at all. The WR had no seperation either half. If you would watch the game instead of automatically trying to say "We need a differant QB" maybe you would see where the real problems are on this team. The play calling was bad, the blocking by the OLine and especially the Tight Ends was the worst I have seen in person. No QB would have had a good day with that kind of suspect blocking. If you were not trying to push your agenda in regards to the QB you wouldn't have even brought this up. Not just you but everyone who is calling for Joshs Head after this game....Ridiculas

Thanks for that I was wondering about the WR seperation. See if that is the case what in the heck was the guy supposed to do?

I started this thread because I knew it was comming, not because I felt we should throw Josh off the ship yet.

I have confidence DG will do the right thing because he dosen't panic.

 

[MrY]

See folks if you work hard and try dreams can come true even if only for a day.

If I could, I would sing to you in my very best Porky Pig voice....ffffairy t-tails will c-c-come t-true, it c-ccoould h-happen t-t-t-o y-you

 

[Dan H]

Man what a bunch of BS . . .

Peyton Manning threw four interceptions against the Patriots in the 2004 AFC championship game . . . hello, they are a GREAT team.

Thankfully most of the fans here in Indy aren't so flighty as some here. Not a one called for Manning's head.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

.... in addition, Roth the "Saviour" was intercepted twice...

And one was returneD for a TD.

 

[CardFan67]

Man what a bunch of BS . . .

Peyton Manning threw four interceptions against the Patriots in the 2004 AFC championship game . . . hello, they are a GREAT team.

Thankfully most of the fans here in Indy aren't so flighty as some here. Not a one called for Manning's head.

I am not calling for his head, I actually said give him the season, it is not like we have much of a choice at any rate... we got to go with him, but are you really comparing him to Peyton Manning?

 

[PJ1]

Your biggest disappointments were two rookies and a QB that is starting his 6th game?

They may not have played well(Dockett looked better to me than last week) but the play of guys like L.Davis, Clement, and McKinnon bother me more. I can give rookies a pass in their second game against the Super Bowl champs and Josh hopefully learned alot today.

 

[Clif]

Josh will not and should not be replaced. He had zero time to throw on most plays. On the downs that he did have time...absolutely nobody was open. I don't care if it was GOD himself was back there throwing, it would not have made a difference.

Mccown made mistakes in forcing the ball, but he had no choice because he was getting blasted on EVERY pass play. I swear I thought he would not make it through the game.

If I see AC standing there while people run by him again I am going to scream.

There was no way any QB on our team can do any better when the LB or DE has a free run at them.

 

[Dan H]

I am not calling for his head, I actually said give him the season, it is not like we have much of a choice at any rate... we got to go with him, but are you really comparing him to Peyton Manning?

Nope, just pointing out that one of the best quarterbacks in the leagues had trouble reading the Patriots defense. Are you really that obtuse?

 

[Rats]

Thanks for that I was wondering about the WR seperation. See if that is the case what in the heck was the guy supposed to do?

I started this thread because I knew it was comming, not because I felt we should throw Josh off the ship yet.

I have confidence DG will do the right thing because he dosen't panic.

I think that had the play calling been better we would have changed the 2nd half. The only Offensive plays that worked were the screen to Scobey and...I can't even think of it...maybe the short dump to the Tight end...had we ran more screens and got the extra rushing LB to account for this guy Josh would have had more time. Freddie Jones is a terrible blocker. He can catch but he can't block....The play calling never adjusted to what the Patsy D was doing. There should have been more dump passes and play action. A pump and go down the field would have helped the recievers get more seperation from the safteies. Josh has to pump some times to freeze the saftey in the middle of the field. He will learn that if he doesn't get sacked 80 times this year.

 

[conraddobler]

I think that had the play calling been better we would have changed the 2nd half. The only Offensive plays that worked were the screen to Scobey and...I can't even think of it...maybe the short dump to the Tight end...had we ran more screens and got the extra rushing LB to account for this guy Josh would have had more time. Freddie Jones is a terrible blocker. He can catch but he can't block....The play calling never adjusted to what the Patsy D was doing. There should have been more dump passes and play action. A pump and go down the field would have helped the recievers get more seperation from the safteies. Josh has to pump some times to freeze the saftey in the middle of the field. He will learn that if he doesn't get sacked 80 times this year.

The only people who know if the WR are open are the fans at the game, the coaches with game tapes and the tv guys.

The TV guys were too busy with the Patriot man love to help much on this.
They at one time said in reference to the Cardinals "this is not a bad team"
following that up with this is like a JV or triple AAA team vs a real team...

Now shouldn't it be one or the other?

Anyway, I feel better about Josh now because I thought there might be no one open but on tv you can't see.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

That is why this is totally selfserving crap. I just got back from the game and for anyone here to say we need to replace the QB because he doesn't go thru his reads is just high. MCCOWN HAD ZERO TIME TO THROW THE BALL IN EITHER HALF. We had no running game at all. The WR had no seperation either half. If you would watch the game instead of automatically trying to say "We need a differant QB" maybe you would see where the real problems are on this team. The play calling was bad, the blocking by the OLine and especially the Tight Ends was the worst I have seen in person. No QB would have had a good day with that kind of suspect blocking. If you were not trying to push your agenda in regards to the QB you wouldn't have even brought this up. Not just you but everyone who is calling for Joshs Head after this game....Ridiculas

There are tons of real problems on this team. But your in denial if you dont believe QB is one of them.

Of course you probably still miss Plummer and think "Any day now" he will prove you right about how good a QB he really is!

There are many probalems with this team but first and foremost this team eneds a QB. A Leader on and off the field, a calm, cool, cerebral, QB. A QB that isnt so damn jittery , who can read defenses, and knows what to do in games like todays. McCown isnt that guy!

Exactly how many games has he won and how many TD passes has he thrown??




p.s I do agree on the TE blocking. They dont even seem to try. I really liked the f.Jones signing a few years back but he hasn't done much at all this far and his blocking seems to regressed.

 

[Rats]

There are tons of real problems on this team. But your in denial if you dont believe QB is one of them.

Of course you probably still miss Plummer and think "Any day now" he will prove you right about how good a QB he really is!

There are many probalems with this team but first and foremost this team eneds a QB. A Leader on and off the field, a calm, cool, cerebral, QB. A QB that isnt so damn jittery , who can read defenses, and knows what to do in games like todays. McCown isnt that guy!

Exactly how many games has he won and how many TD passes has he thrown??




p.s I do agree on the TE blocking. They dont even seem to try. I really liked the f.Jones signing a few years back but he hasn't done much at all this far and his blocking seems to regressed.

I am not one who ever defended Jake. I thought he was the king of the Wounded Duck throws and pulled to much out of his ass. Comparing the jitteryness of Josh to him is laughable. There not even the same kind of QB. Josh will be able to read a defense with game time. Jake still cant do it. The only denial here is yours. Josh is our QB for the forseable future. We will not go and draft one even if he fails. We will sign a decent vet to compete. You need to give up on that fasination of yours with Drafted QB. THere are only a few that even succeed at this level. Josh has only played a handful of games. To expect him to single handedly lead this team to victory is serious denial. The game starts on the LInes and ends on the Lines and we have not one the battle on either side of the ball. The QB can't do his job until they do there job.

 

[CardFan67]

Are you really that obtuse?

You were the one that made that comparison.... I have no idea why you would come back with that comment other than the fact of your age.... I have been a hard core Cardinal fan for 37 years... I have every right to post an opinion without the ridicule from the likes of you...



You were the one that implied if Peyton Manning threw four interceptions then it would be acceptable for our offense to have done as poorly as they did… That is a comparison... The obtuse one here, my friend is you, make it Obthreece….

 

[Russ Smith]

Your biggest disappointments were two rookies and a QB that is starting his 6th game?

They may not have played well(Dockett looked better to me than last week) but the play of guys like L.Davis, Clement, and McKinnon bother me more. I can give rookies a pass in their second game against the Super Bowl champs and Josh hopefully learned alot today.

Well that's because you don't know what I mean by disappointment, I mean performance compared to what I was hoping to see. I've said all along Big is NOT a LT, he showed that again today IMHO, and that was no surprise to me. Clement stinks, I've felt that way for awhile now, made it quite clear, again nothing I saw today surprised me with AC. McKinnon plays hard but he's simply on the downside of his career, I'm one of the people who would like to see Hayes take over at MLB, if not right away, during the season at least.

But the 3 guys I mentioned were all guys I had hoped had a chance to do something in this game. Dockett going up against a new starter was basically a non factor. Step going up against a fellow rookie who he'd played against before got completely manhandled. And remember, the C calls the linecalls, when the OL looks that discombobulated, it's partly on the C. yes he's a rookie but Green deemed him ready to start, everyone has been raving about how much he improves every week, today he got his head handed to him, and that surprised me based on what I've read here.

josh, probably too hard on him, on tv you can't see if guys are open or not, but the forces into coverage bothered me given how much I know DG values the ball. He will absolutely hammer that into Josh this week, it's one of his mantras, be careful with the bal.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think that had the play calling been better we would have changed the 2nd half. The only Offensive plays that worked were the screen to Scobey and...I can't even think of it...maybe the short dump to the Tight end...had we ran more screens and got the extra rushing LB to account for this guy Josh would have had more time. Freddie Jones is a terrible blocker. He can catch but he can't block....The play calling never adjusted to what the Patsy D was doing. There should have been more dump passes and play action. A pump and go down the field would have helped the recievers get more seperation from the safteies. Josh has to pump some times to freeze the saftey in the middle of the field. He will learn that if he doesn't get sacked 80 times this year.

Agreed on the playcalls, Green doesn't get a free pass there they were blitzing far too often and we didn't catch them in it enough to stop them. Green has got to understand his QB's lack of experience and help him. For example, the first pick, I was frankly stunned we were even throwing the ball downfield at that time instead of just dumping it off or letting josh run before we punted. Jake is in his 8th season, and shanahan won't let him throw downfield in that situation, you have to understand who your QB is. Josh hasn't seen enough to be turned loose there, he did exactly what you would expect him to do.

We're not alone in jumping on players, last week Quentin Griffin was better than Portis, this week there are multiple threads on the bronco board about starting Hearst or Bell over him. That's how we NFL fans are, fickle. I don't want josh benched, but I do want to see him make better decisions he should have had 4 picks today and all were balls he should have never thrown.

but that's how you learn in the NFL.

 

[WildBB]

Green's interview after the game seemed to indict the whole Offense. "They're not executing anything in this offense".

I'd say there are a few changes coming.

It wouldn't be out of the realm to see S. King, to give a change of pace.

It's not a change I really want to see at this point.

 

[WildBB]

Step going up against a fellow rookie who he'd played against before got completely manhandled. And remember, the C calls the linecalls, when the OL looks that discombobulated, it's partly on the C. yes he's a rookie but Green deemed him ready to start, everyone has been raving about how much he improves every week, today he got his head handed to him, and that surprised me based on what I've read here.

I said when they go into the season that I guaranteed Step would not be NFL ready to start in this league. I was right.

I think to make this line any better, you have to put L. Davis at RT and put Shelton back at LT.

Or bite the salary bullet for one year and go with the original Green plan of putting Shelton LT, Davis LG together on one side and working Wells into the RG position. Can't hurt at this point.

They'll have to address Davis' salary at the end of the year though. Maybe sooner.

 

[WisconsinCard]

you must have been watching him the whole game because no one really stands out on defense except maybe Mackiln.

The same Macklin that could make a tackle in the open field twice??? He did absolutely nothing today.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Step going up against a fellow rookie who he'd played against before got completely manhandled. And remember, the C calls the linecalls, when the OL looks that discombobulated, it's partly on the C. yes he's a rookie but Green deemed him ready to start, everyone has been raving about how much he improves every week, today he got his head handed to him, and that surprised me based on what I've read here.

I said when they go into the season that I guaranteed Step would not be NFL ready to start in this league. I was right.

I think to make this line any better, you have to put L. Davis at RT and put Shelton back at LT.

Or bite the salary bullet for one year and go with the original Green plan of putting Shelton LT, Davis LG together on one side and working Wells into the RG position. Can't hurt at this point.

They'll have to address Davis' salary at the end of the year though. Maybe sooner.

It all starts with the lines. The O-line stunk and therefore the O sucked. Make some changes by getting Cement outta there. Give LJ a chance. Find someone to give some competition to Step and Spikes.

The d-line didn't seem great....but not overly bad either. If Dockett improves then that could. Where's Claude Rains I mean Wendall Bryant?

 

[HookemCards]

It all starts with the lines. The O-line stunk and therefore the O sucked. Make some changes by getting Cement outta there. Give LJ a chance. Find someone to give some competition to Step and Spikes.

The d-line didn't seem great....but not overly bad either. If Dockett improves then that could. Where's Claude Rains I mean Wendall Bryant?

Bryant is suspended the first 4 games of the season stemming from his DUI in Wisc. over the summer.

I've been saying since last year, that Clement just doesn't have the foot speed or quickness to play against DE, but has the size and strength to take on DT. Move him inside, replacing Spikes and put LJ at RT. Then let them play together all year and I think by mid season we'll have the makings of a decent OL.

 

[Russ Smith]

Agree on Big, someone needs to be contacting his agent asking for a refund. He's not awful mind you but he's not a LT and he's certainly not our best LT. Unless the back problem with LJ is career threatening, there's no doubt he's still better than big. Frankly I'd keep Big at LT, move LJ to RT and be done with it. At least that way big doesn't have to learn a 3rd position in one year, and it would get AC off the field at RT where he's been overmatched.

Step is in over his head against a team like New England, that he was THAT over his head concerned me, I hope Wylie is working with him on the linecalls because Step is a bright kid and he will pick that stuff up eventually.

 

[black]

To call for McCowns head would be a silly knee jerk reaction to say the least.

Did you honestly think that McCown would come out and throw for 200 yds and 2 TDs and no INTs against the Patriot D? Come on folks, this is the defence that confuses the best QB's in the NFL. McCown is still young and learning. Not to mention the growing pains of learning a new system.

McCown didn't have a good game. But be rational about this. You want to bench him in the second game because he didn't perform against the world championship defence?

How will Roth played doesn't matter. He isn't on our team and never was going to be. Plus he isn't facing the same team so the comparison is useless.

Good points. OK, you've convinced me, now how about everyone else. Just until now I've realized that this is a rebuilding year, no matter what anyone says.

 

[pete]

He did good, but was getting confused by Bellicheck

I thought Step took a step back in this game as I watched him get schooled on more than a few plays. There was too much pressure coming up the middle all game long. Not a good game for him, but he should be fine in the long run. Just part of his NFL education.