Lakers @ Suns 3-2-19

Hoop Head

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I thought I was on ignore. Your still on this. It’s very very clear a certain little group here has an ax to grind with him. Stop pretending

Seriously why are you following me around though I thought I was on your ignore list

I hadn't put you on ignore yet because I was curious if you'd try to throw another shot at me and you did. You say others take this board to seriously yet every other post of yours you bash members of this board like a coward because you won't name names but it's strongly implied that you're claiming to know how certain posters think and also lie saying that we have an agenda.

Who is taking the board too seriously? You post garbage takes and then cry because no one agrees with you because your whole view is based on an opposition that doesn't exist. Why are you lying on a message board?

You say I'm still on this but I'm responding directly to your post, the one where you claimed that I hate Ayton. So who is still on what? As long as you lie about how I feel about the team or players I'm going to respond to you because I don't like idiots putting words in my mouth.
 

Finito

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I hadn't put you on ignore yet because I was curious if you'd try to throw another shot at me and you did. You say others take this board to seriously yet every other post of yours you bash members of this board like a coward because you won't name names but it's strongly implied that you're claiming to know how certain posters think and also lie saying that we have an agenda.

Who is taking the board too seriously? You post garbage takes and then cry because no one agrees with you because your whole view is based on an opposition that doesn't exist. Why are you lying on a message board?

You say I'm still on this but I'm responding directly to your post, the one where you claimed that I hate Ayton. So who is still on what? As long as you lie about how I feel about the team or players I'm going to respond to you because I don't like idiots putting words in my mouth.

Am I going around quoting you or are you going around quoting me lol.

I think it’s pretty obvious who I’m talking about.

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Mainstreet

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It's not his fault narrative o_O;)

It's weird because in the game video I was watching they didn't even to bother to show one Suns play.

The media creates some of the anti-Lebron sentiment by their slanted coverage.
 

elindholm

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All you heard was who is better the last few years. MJ or LBJ. You ain't hearing any of that any more.

True, but that's because Jordan has the same Teflon quality that Trump and Tom Brady have, which is that nothing sticks to them. Jordan joining the Wizards is similar to James with the Lakers now. Jordan brought in Doug Collins to coach, and within a year had shipped out rising star Rip Hamilton for a package including the aging Jerry Stackhouse. In Jordan's two years with the Wizards, they missed the playoffs both times, team chemistry went into the toilet, and the franchise was set back considerably. In the 15 years since, the Wizards have won a grand total of four playoff series, never making it out of the second round.

But he's Jordan, so we don't talk about that.
 

JCSunsfan

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True, but that's because Jordan has the same Teflon quality that Trump and Tom Brady have, which is that nothing sticks to them. Jordan joining the Wizards is similar to James with the Lakers now. Jordan brought in Doug Collins to coach, and within a year had shipped out rising star Rip Hamilton for a package including the aging Jerry Stackhouse. In Jordan's two years with the Wizards, they missed the playoffs both times, team chemistry went into the toilet, and the franchise was set back considerably. In the 15 years since, the Wizards have won a grand total of four playoff series, never making it out of the second round.

But he's Jordan, so we don't talk about that.
Jordan was a shadow of himself when with the Wizards. LeBron is more in the mainstream of his career.
 

SirStefan32

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Because they don’t like him, this is so damn old. Bitch and complain you want to see more. You see more then it’s well he couldn’t back down Hart on that one play.

For a rookie big to come out and get 26/10 is pretty damn impressive.

But it’s whatever

There is nobody here that doesn't like Ayton. People are just divided in different groups. Some people had such high expectations that they are disappointed. other people are so desperate for anything "good" to happen that they ignore the negative stuff. Then there are people who are realistic.

Ayton is having a very good season considering he is a rookie big man. He can score inside under specific conditions (needs to be close to the basket, needs to be completely isolated, and needs to have a few seconds), he has a sweet jumper for a kid of that age and size, he runs the floor well, he is a good passer, and a good one on one defender.
He also has majot holes in his game. Most of them are normal for someone his age, and others are something he's been known for long before the NBA. He is just not good at executing quickly in a post-up situation unless he is right under the basket. The play in question was a great example. Even EJ made a comment about it as the play was developing. He said something along the lines that Ayton will need to execute quickly, as this is not something he is good at yet. He is a young kid. He still needs to think about what he wants to do when he is not close enough to the basket to just lift the ball up over a defender and put it in the basket. This does not mean that we don't like Ayton. It simply means that we are pointing out obvious flaws in his game. Again, it is normal to have those flaws at that age, but it would be intellectually dishonest to pretend that they don't exist.

This is a problem that goes beyond this message board and beyond the sports. We live in an absolutist society where being reasonable and intellectually honest gets you in trouble. You point out something obvious, and the next thing you know you are being called a hater. It is entirely possible for me and others to believe Ayton is an outstanding player for his age, far more advanced than an average 7'1 rookie would usually be, and point out that he has major flaws in his game, such as posting up in certain situations (Not right under the basket, other players in the area), fighting for the position, help defense, pick and roll defense (if he doesn't switch), conditioning, and frankly, his drive, or the lack thereof. That doesn't mean we are homers and it doesn't mean we don't like Ayton. It means we are trying our very best to be intellectually honest and objective.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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True, but that's because Jordan has the same Teflon quality that Trump and Tom Brady have, which is that nothing sticks to them. Jordan joining the Wizards is similar to James with the Lakers now. Jordan brought in Doug Collins to coach, and within a year had shipped out rising star Rip Hamilton for a package including the aging Jerry Stackhouse. In Jordan's two years with the Wizards, they missed the playoffs both times, team chemistry went into the toilet, and the franchise was set back considerably. In the 15 years since, the Wizards have won a grand total of four playoff series, never making it out of the second round.

But he's Jordan, so we don't talk about that.
The truth is, I don’t think anyone counts his time in Washington because it was after a second retirement. I don’t think anyone but the press took that time seriously. I mean, Jordan was 38-40 during his time in Washington. Lebron is, what, 34?
 

elindholm

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Jordan was a shadow of himself when with the Wizards. LeBron is more in the mainstream of his career.

Jordan was the Wizards' leading scorer in 2001-02 and just behind Stackhouse in 2002-03. He averaged 35 minutes per game the first season and 37, playing all 82 games, in the second season. (He averaged 20/6/4 that year, in spite of turning 40 mid-season.) So he was still clearly the focus of the team.
 

itlnsunsfan

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Jordan was the Wizards' leading scorer in 2001-02 and just behind Stackhouse in 2002-03. He averaged 35 minutes per game the first season and 37, playing all 82 games, in the second season. (He averaged 20/6/4 that year, in spite of turning 40 mid-season.) So he was still clearly the focus of the team.

I think he's talking about the prime of their careers. James is much closer to his than Jordan in the Wizards era. As good as Jordan was in Washington, he was still a shadow of his former self.
 

Finito

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Lebron has played at least 10,000 more NBA minutes than Jordan when he was 34.

Right out of high school and played in 8 straight NBA finals he’s got a lot of miles on him. This year is done and next season will be his 18th

His 18th year! That’s crazy. This lakers contract reminds me of the Pujols contract they paid for what he used to be. I’ve said before if I’m a young star in my 20s why am I going to LA and hitch my wagon to this old dude and deal with all his drama. I really don’t see them landing a big star this offseason
 

SunnyBaller

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Didn't get to see the game last night but nice to see they got a W. Also nice to see another heated discussion over ayton ha!

I think these game threads should just be titled Ayton vs. (opposing team)
 

Rab

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Solid win from a team that usually unravels at the end of games. Felt good to send the Laker fans home with that L when they are so desperate for wins.

I agree that it was fantastic to see Ayton drawing that many fouls tonight. That has been missing from his game. Though I try to balance that with the fact that he basically just runs from side to side in the perimeter setting screens the entire possession. He’s rarely put down low and when he is, no one on the team can make a good entry pass. In terms of the whole not being able to back down Hart thing, Book didn’t give him the ball until there were about 5 seconds left on the shot clock. It wasn’t an ideal post up situation at that point.

Dude is an efficient and walking double double who is obviously still raw and IMO only get better while being grossly underutilized. He’ll never be flashy or grab headlines like Luka of even Young because they have the ball in their hands all the time and the league as it is right now worships perimeter play. He’s got a long way to go to get better on defense and learning angles and positioning on the block. But 17 and over 10 for a guy with this much room to grow is encouraging. Get an offense in place that features him more and he’ll be a really good player.


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Yuma

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I came away from the game thinking we could use a couple more bigs, that are not small forwards. :(
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I came away from the game thinking we could use a couple more bigs, that are not small forwards. :(
Yup. We have good small forwards but they get crushed in the post pretty regularly.
 

Chaplin

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Actually, I’m not sure his claim that it was after he fouled out has merit, but I remember that game vividly since it was the game that ended our 4-game won streak.

Most of Bryant’s scores were indeed when Ayton was helping in the perimeter. It was painfully obvious what the game plan was—Ayton was to help in the perimeter thinking that Bryant was no threat. That turned out to not be the case, but Igor never adjusted for it.
 

Chris_Sanders

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My ticket rep sent me two complimentary tickets last night about 3 hours before the game so I was lucky enough to be there.

When left the arena I used the word dominant when it came to Ayton more than once.

He was active and moving at all times and looked like the second best player on the court.

Again I would call for some kindness to each other.
 

1Sun

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My ticket rep sent me two complimentary tickets last night about 3 hours before the game so I was lucky enough to be there.

When left the arena I used the word dominant when it came to Ayton more than once.

He was active and moving at all times and looked like the second best player on the court.

Again I would call for some kindness to each other.

Ayton was indeed dominant. And yet once again they stopped involving him down the stretch.

Last night as much as anything demonstrated to me just how much Igor Kokoskov is failing in terms of involving and developing Ayton, among other things.
 

Willie D

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LeBron has already played 4K more minutes than Jordan did his entire career.
Right...all those oh-so-suck-cessful years in Cleveland, followed by him fleeing to find some better players. Now he takes more plays off than otherwise.

On the radio pre-game, Tim Ring interviewed John Mason, who is a part of the Laker's broadcast team from whatever station there. Tim asked him about potential moves, and Ireland had an interesting response. He said, "Tim, some day I will show you a lengthy email from my station manager remind me that, as an employee of the Lakers, I am not allowed to comment on the contract status of any player or executive."

Makes me wonder is Lamebadoro has gotten a similar email.
 
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