Kirwan looks at 37 current pros chances at the hall (only Faneca from AZ)

[Captain Matt]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81871a64&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


I get many on the list, but to list Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, and Reggie Wayne as pass catchers who should make it if they continue at their pace, but no Fitzgerald and no Boldin is pretty interesting. He has Steve Smith and Hines Ward on the outside looking in, but no mention of Fitz (or Boldin). I know I'm preaching to the choir I just couldn't believe Fitz wasn't mentioned..... No, strike that, we are talking about Cardinals players. Even if he is the consensous all-world best-in-the-league talent, he plays for that team that is always in the toilet. I mean the last 2-3 years are just a fluke right? Grrrr..... Does no one remember the 2009 post season? That performance alone should give him consideration.

Brandon Marshall:
2009 101 1,120 11.1 10
2008 104 1,265 12.2 6
2007 102 1,325 13.0 7
2006 20 309 15.5 2

Andre Johnson;
2009 101 1,569 15.5 9
2008 115 1,575 13.7 8
2007 60 851 14.2 8
2006 103 1,147 11.1 5
2005 63 688 10.9 2
2004 79 1,142 14.5 6
2003 66 976 14.8 4

Fitzy:
2009 97 1,092 11.3 13
2008 96 1,431 14.9 12
2007 100 1,409 14.1 10
2006 69 946 13.7 6
2005 103 1,409 13.7 10
2004 58 780 13.4 8

Boldin:
2009 84 1,024 12.2 4
2008 89 1,038 11.7 11
2007 71 853 12.0 9
2006 83 1,203 14.5 4
2005 102 1,402 13.7 7
2004 56 623 11.1 1
2003 101 1,377 13.6 8

 

[Captain Matt]

Well....Torry Holt wasn't mentioned either. I guess he's probably got more career points than Fitz at this point.

 

[Buckybird]

Most of the above avg WR's in this league put up gaudy #'s in catches & 1,000 yd seasons because thats the name of the game in todays aerial assault. If Fitz is blessed with health for the rest of his career he should have around 15,000 yards & 100+ Td's receiving. If he accomplishes that he will eventually get into the HOF because he is perceived to be one the top 3 wideouts in the game today. Throw in his unbelieveable 2008 playoff record in yards (which may never be broken) & I think he's a shoe-in in time!!!

 

[Covert Rain]

This guy is an idiot. Hines gets in. Fitz if he keeps up this pace gets in.

 

[kerouac9]

This guy is an idiot. Hines gets in. Fitz if he keeps up this pace gets in.

No Hines Ward does not get in. 13 seasons so far in the NFL. 6 1000+ yard seasons, 3 1100+ yard seasons. 3 10+ TD seasons. 4 time Pro Bowl selection, 0 since 2004. These numbers will not hold up against most of the other WRs of his generation (Reggie Wayne, Torry Holt, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens).

Hines Ward will justifiably earn himself a place in the Steelers' Ring of Honor (or whatever they have), but there was never a season when Ward was the best WR in the NFL, and there were several when he wasn't even the best WR on his team--including last season.

 

[Covert Rain]

No Hines Ward does not get in. 13 seasons so far in the NFL. 6 1000+ yard seasons, 3 1100+ yard seasons. 3 10+ TD seasons. 4 time Pro Bowl selection, 0 since 2004. These numbers will not hold up against most of the other WRs of his generation (Reggie Wayne, Torry Holt, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens).

Hines Ward will justifiably earn himself a place in the Steelers' Ring of Honor (or whatever they have), but there was never a season when Ward was the best WR in the NFL, and there were several when he wasn't even the best WR on his team--including last season.

Have you seen some of the stats of guys that have gotten in? Not everybody that gets in has the best numbers. He is a player that shows up for big games. Just my opinion but he gets in.

 

[MadCardDisease]

No Hines Ward does not get in. 13 seasons so far in the NFL. 6 1000+ yard seasons, 3 1100+ yard seasons. 3 10+ TD seasons. 4 time Pro Bowl selection, 0 since 2004. These numbers will not hold up against most of the other WRs of his generation (Reggie Wayne, Torry Holt, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens).

Hines Ward will justifiably earn himself a place in the Steelers' Ring of Honor (or whatever they have), but there was never a season when Ward was the best WR in the NFL, and there were several when he wasn't even the best WR on his team--including last season.

I agree that Ward doesn't have the numbers to be in the HoF. However the fact that he played for the Steelers may sway the voters. It will be a sham if he is voted in.

What I don't understand is how he can List Andre Johnson and not include Larry Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald has one less season that Johnson and already has 17 more TDs than Johnson. Also Fitzgerald has 6 playoff games under his belt and the best post season performance of any WR in the history of the game. How many playoff games has Johnson helped his team to win?

Fitzgerald should at least be listed as "At this pace, He has a shot." He is the only current Cardinal that I'd say that for.

 

[kerouac9]

Have you seen some of the stats of guys that have gotten in? Not everybody that gets in has the best numbers. He is a player that shows up for big games. Just my opinion but he gets in.

But people who get in have numbers that generally exceed those of their generation, their peers. Hines Ward has been Super Bowl MVP the exact same number of times as Dexter McCleon.

Hines Ward isn't even the best WR in his draft class. Randy Moss is.

If you let in Hines Ward, then you have to let in a guy like Derrick Mason. That's not going to happen.

 

[Covert Rain]

But people who get in have numbers that generally exceed those of their generation, their peers. Hines Ward has been Super Bowl MVP the exact same number of times as Dexter McCleon.

Hines Ward isn't even the best WR in his draft class. Randy Moss is.

If you let in Hines Ward, then you have to let in a guy like Derrick Mason. That's not going to happen.

Hines is considered one of the best blocking receivers in history (some say the best). There is only one receiver with more touchdown catches (Steve Largent) that has retired since 1985 and made it to the HOF. He has more the Irving, Monk, Stallworth, Joiner and Loften who have all made it.

He currently has 10,947 yards (912 a season). He has at least 3 good years left IMO. Which would put him at about 13,683. He would have more receiving yards then Irving, Monk, Stallworth and Joiner. He has two Superbowl rings and is one of only six receivers to get the Superbowl MVP.

Just my opinion but I just don't see how he doesn't get in.

 

[Unsterblich856]

Hines is considered one of the best blocking receivers in history (some say the best). There is only one receiver with more touchdown catches (Steve Largent) that has retired since 1985 and made it to the HOF. He has more the Irving, Monk, Stallworth, Joiner and Loften who have all made it.

He currently has 10,947 yards (912 a season). He has at least 3 good years left IMO. Which would put him at about 13,683. He would have more receiving yards then Irving, Monk, Stallworth and Joiner. He has two Superbowl rings and is one of only six receivers to get the Superbowl MVP.

Just my opinion but I just don't see how he doesn't get in.

Hines won't get into the Hall of Fame because he's not good enough. If there's a Hall of Slightly Above Average Over an Extended Period of Time, he'll get into that. The HoF is for people that are breaking records, claiming position titles, and to be one of the very best. Hines has never been a top 5, and arguably never top 10 WR in his career. Sure, he can through cheap blindside blocks like nobody's business, but you don't get in by being a good blocking receiver.

 

[kerouac9]

Hines is considered one of the best blocking receivers in history (some say the best). There is only one receiver with more touchdown catches (Steve Largent) that has retired since 1985 and made it to the HOF. He has more the Irving, Monk, Stallworth, Joiner and Loften who have all made it.

He currently has 10,947 yards (912 a season). He has at least 3 good years left IMO. Which would put him at about 13,683. He would have more receiving yards then Irving, Monk, Stallworth and Joiner. He has two Superbowl rings and is one of only six receivers to get the Superbowl MVP.

Just my opinion but I just don't see how he doesn't get in.

Because Jerry Rice (22895 yds/197 TDs), Cris Carter (13,899/130), Marvin Harrison (14580/128), Tim Brown (14934/100), Isaac Bruce (15208/91), and maybe Terrell Owens (14951/144) will all be in line ahead of him. That's why.

Randy Moss (14465/148) and Torry Holt (13382/85) will be right ahead of him or just behind. Do you really think there'll be a shortage of great WRs from this era? Football isn't baseball; there are different eras of the game, and voters realize that.

Again: Hines Ward will retire as the best Steelers WR ever. But he's very good, not great. Good players don't deserve to go to the Hall of Fame.

 

[Covert Rain]

Because Jerry Rice (22895 yds/197 TDs), Cris Carter (13,899/130), Marvin Harrison (14580/128), Tim Brown (14934/100), Isaac Bruce (15208/91), and maybe Terrell Owens (14951/144) will all be in line ahead of him. That's why.

Randy Moss (14465/148) and Torry Holt (13382/85) will be right ahead of him or just behind. Do you really think there'll be a shortage of great WRs from this era? Football isn't baseball; there are different eras of the game, and voters realize that.

Again: Hines Ward will retire as the best Steelers WR ever. But he's very good, not great. Good players don't deserve to go to the Hall of Fame.

Then you should take some of those guys out of the hall. As I posted above he will finish with numbers better then guys already in. Maybe he won't be a 1st ballot but you simply can't call him the best "Steeler" when clearly his numbers are better then some already in.

If you want to revise the standards and make it tougher then OK. However, the standard is already set which kind of guys get in. Having the best blocking WR probably in history with #'s that already match or exceed those of some HF says he is in to me.

Guess we have to wait and see. There are some fantastic WR coming up for consideration..that's for sure.

 

[Treefiddy]

Then you should take some of those guys out of the hall. As I posted above he will finish with numbers better then guys already in. Maybe he won't be a 1st ballot but you simply can't call him the best "Steeler" when clearly his numbers are better then some already in.

If you want to revise the standards and make it tougher then OK. However, the standard is already set which kind of guys get in. Having the best blocking WR probably in history with #'s that already match or exceed those of some HF says he is in to me.

Guess we have to wait and see. There are some fantastic WR coming up for consideration..that's for sure.

K9 already said it, but I'll echo. We're in an era of the game that sees a lot more aerial attacks. You can't really compare numbers from players who played in different eras.

 

[kerouac9]

Then you should take some of those guys out of the hall. As I posted above he will finish with numbers better then guys already in. Maybe he won't be a 1st ballot but you simply can't call him the best "Steeler" when clearly his numbers are better then some already in.

If you want to revise the standards and make it tougher then OK. However, the standard is already set which kind of guys get in. Having the best blocking WR probably in history with #'s that already match or exceed those of some HF says he is in to me.

Guess we have to wait and see. There are some fantastic WR coming up for consideration..that's for sure.

Would you compare quarterbacks from the 1960s to Warner, Brees, and Manning? Of course you wouldn't. I'd be impossible, because the game changed so much. Last year Matt Schaub had a season that Johnny Unitas couldn't have imagined. Should we prepare a bust for Matt Schaub?

 

[Covert Rain]

K9 already said it, but I'll echo. We're in an era of the game that sees a lot more aerial attacks. You can't really compare numbers from players who played in different eras.

Would you compare quarterbacks from the 1960s to Warner, Brees, and Manning? Of course you wouldn't. I'd be impossible, because the game changed so much. Last year Matt Schaub had a season that Johnny Unitas couldn't have imagined. Should we prepare a bust for Matt Schaub?

I think you both make valid points. However, that is why I think intangibles is a bigger factor now. I hear the media talk about it all the time. Because of the offensive attacks etc. people will look at things like leadership and his being one of the best blockers ever at that position to put him in. Also, Schaub's one season is hardly a comparison since your talking about a season and I am talking over his career (he has been consistent). Like I said, just my opinion. We will have to wait and see.

 

[Buckybird]

I think Hines will get in eventually because of who he plays for, has 2 rings & his reputation. Do I think he deserves it? Absoulutely not, he's always been an overrated talent.

 

[Cheesebeef]

let me get this straight, Andre Johnson is the number one lock going forward of the guys "on pace" but Fitz is averaging more yards per season than Andre Johnson... more TDs per seasons than Andre Johnson and led what was dubbed as the worst playoff team in history to the SUPER BOWL with the most amazing post-season run in history and then backed that up with another aerial display the next year against the Packers and not only is Fitz not even number TWO on that list behind Johnson... he's NOWHERE ON IT AT ALL?

That's beyond laughable.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I don't put too much stock in one guy's opinion. Still, I find it crazy that Fitz is not listed.

I agree with K9's assessment of Ward. I think the only reason he gets in is because of the fact he played with the Steelers.

 

[Doug]

Shame after all their Giant years together Ike Bruce and Torry Holt aren't even mentioned as afterthoughts when they held records for years.Brady is gonna love having torry holt this year.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Then you should take some of those guys out of the hall. As I posted above he will finish with numbers better then guys already in. Maybe he won't be a 1st ballot but you simply can't call him the best "Steeler" when clearly his numbers are better then some already in.

If you want to revise the standards and make it tougher then OK. However, the standard is already set which kind of guys get in. Having the best blocking WR probably in history with #'s that already match or exceed those of some HF says he is in to me.

Guess we have to wait and see. There are some fantastic WR coming up for consideration..that's for sure.

What???

You mean to tell me that Hines Ward belongs in the hall more than any of these other receivers listed? (Rice, Carter, Harrison, Brown, Moss, Owens)

The only one that I would 'arguably' give you is Holt.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

let me get this straight, Andre Johnson is the number one lock going forward of the guys "on pace" but Fitz is averaging more yards per season than Andre Johnson... more TDs per seasons than Andre Johnson and led what was dubbed as the worst playoff team in history to the SUPER BOWL with the most amazing post-season run in history and then backed that up with another aerial display the next year against the Packers and not only is Fitz not even number TWO on that list behind Johnson... he's NOWHERE ON IT AT ALL?

That's beyond laughable.

I think it was just an honest mistake. I refuse to believe that he intentionally left Fitz off of the list.