Kingsbury, The World’s Only 17 Point Offensive Genius

Discussion in 'Arizona Cardinals' started by Harry, Nov 29, 2020.

  1. blindseyed

    blindseyed I'm saying you ARE stuck in Wichita

    Posts:
    5,731
    Likes Received:
    1,586
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Location:
    Buckeye
    This is an honest question for both sides, wether you like him or not, is his offense revolutionizing the game? I'm asking because that's what we were told he would do
     
    ASUCHRIS likes this.
  2. dreamcastrocks

    dreamcastrocks Chopped Liver Moderator Contributor

    Age:
    41
    Posts:
    39,417
    Likes Received:
    1,925
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Give me a break. Might as well go right to the hyperbole.
     
    CardsSunsDbacks likes this.
  3. Yuma

    Yuma Working from home. Missing my free coffee!

    Posts:
    12,211
    Likes Received:
    1,559
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Location:
    Laveen, AZ
    It's not easy. Like I said, we have all had a coach we remember that made us go to a higher level.
     
  4. dreamcastrocks

    dreamcastrocks Chopped Liver Moderator Contributor

    Age:
    41
    Posts:
    39,417
    Likes Received:
    1,925
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    By whom? The media? Keim? Do either one of them really know what they are doing?

    Has their been a college coach in the past 25 years that has come in and revolutionized an offense?
     
    Chopper0080 likes this.
  5. dreamcastrocks

    dreamcastrocks Chopped Liver Moderator Contributor

    Age:
    41
    Posts:
    39,417
    Likes Received:
    1,925
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    The Cardinals have been terrible about penalties, even under Arians and before.
     
  6. Chopper0080

    Chopper0080 2021 - Prove It

    Posts:
    18,063
    Likes Received:
    11,196
    Joined:
    May 15, 2002
    Location:
    Colorado
    Patrick Mahomes had 29 straight starts in college.

    Kyler Murray had 4 as a freshman at Texas A&M, then a 3 year gap, and then 14 starts as a Sr at Oklahoma.

    I would argue that those are significantly different college starting experiences and volume. Even if you count Kyler's starts at A&M, Mahomes still had almost an entire college season of additional experience prior to entering the NFL. He was significantly more experienced, spent almost an entire year sitting and learning and was coached by arguably the best offensive HC in the NFL in Andy Reid. Also on that coaching staff were Doug Pederson who became an NFL HC and Matt Nagy who has become an NFL HC. I 100% agree that Kyler has had worse NFL coaching than Mahomes but I would argue that 90% of QBs in the NFL are in the same boat.
     
  7. Yuma

    Yuma Working from home. Missing my free coffee!

    Posts:
    12,211
    Likes Received:
    1,559
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Location:
    Laveen, AZ
    It's become institutional. Like losing for the Suns. You have to change the mentality. Suns have been talking about that in the media this week.
     
  8. Chopper0080

    Chopper0080 2021 - Prove It

    Posts:
    18,063
    Likes Received:
    11,196
    Joined:
    May 15, 2002
    Location:
    Colorado
    Trust that I know you and every other Kliff critic on this board does as well. Similar situation with Keim and several posters.
     
    TaylorSwift likes this.
  9. Harry

    Harry ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer

    Age:
    73
    Posts:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    7,399
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Zeem is right there’s a reason I’m not a scout anymore. It’s the fact I’m 73 years old. Of course a pandemic doesn’t help. My resume has been an open book as have those connections I’ve gotten to post on or write for the board in the old days. I’m not in the business of handing down tablets. I made a dumb comment during the game Sunday. I think everything on the board is pretty much a matter of opinion. I do try to provide rationale for my positions. Wouldn’t be a very interesting board if we all saw everything the same way. As to criticism it’s always welcomed. I never worry about getting attacked. People are passionate about their teams & players. The one I posted about Murray today was certain to blow up. I think he makes it big, but has a lot to learn. However, the league better watch out if he learns much more. He could grow into greatness. He’s always fun to watch. Whether you liked it or not, thanks for taking the time to respond
     
  10. SoonerLou

    SoonerLou Registered

    Posts:
    2,803
    Likes Received:
    2,945
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2019
    Location:
    St Louis, MO
    Probably a case of two things being true.
    "Mahomes scouting report"
    https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/article224076765.html

    I've said before that I think if Kliff had a vet QB his offense would flow better. I think Kliff is a great play design, good play caller, but to be decided if he's a good QB developer. Mahomes didnt look much different between his SO and JR years imo.

    Now do I think if Kliff was just an OC the offense would be better and QB would be better fundamentally? Absolutely. Same if he was just a HC and didnt have the responsibility as a play caller. This team would have far less penalties and be more disciplined. He's carrying a heavy duty that not even some of the brightest minds in the NFL handle in terms of being a HC/playcaller.

    As far as college starts there is some truth to that. However, despite the starts Kyler was still more fundamentally sound that Mahomes imo. And if he started more games that would have been true as well. The real advantage Mahomes had in terms of his college experience was it was more difficult for him than Kyler.

    Mahomes was use to a lesser talent on the outside, a young coach calling plays, not a great OLine, etc. So when he gets Andy Reid and the Chiefs weapons its like heaven. Meanwhile Kyler never really had to throw in a muddy pocket, force to throw without a running threat, etc etc.

    You could argue he only had to do that at A&M because even in HS Kyler was at a powerhouse with a few NFL players on and Mahomes wasnt.

    This is why imo Keim needed to be very offensive geared in the draft FA the past couple of years. I'd rather have ONE thing great about this team then it be inconsistent on both sides. You take the best WR available at the top of round 2 or draft an Olineman (2019 class).

    Simmons has been GREAT lately, but I still wanted Oline or maybe another WR.

    Kyler and Kliff have their issues, but I'd rather they worked it out with a full deck imo. Not explosive enough as a team imo outside of Kyler making big runs.

    Now we have we what we have and thats fine. I'd just be of the mindset going forward about lets make sure offense is stacked next year to really find out about Kliff and Kyler.
     
  11. football karma

    football karma Happy in the pretense of knowledge

    Posts:
    10,986
    Likes Received:
    3,982
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Kirk makes a catch on a perfect ball, and Zane hits a 45 yard field goal, and its a 27 point "bad game"
     
  12. sdscard4

    sdscard4 Registered

    Age:
    45
    Posts:
    2,108
    Likes Received:
    1,146
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2016
    Location:
    Payson
    Post of the day!
     
    Cardsfaninlouky likes this.
  13. Cardsfaninlouky

    Cardsfaninlouky Registered

    Age:
    51
    Posts:
    2,373
    Likes Received:
    2,067
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2019
    Location:
    Louisville
    Exactly, he was also held on that play with no flag thrown.
     
  14. daves

    daves Keepin' it real! Contributor

    Posts:
    2,300
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2003
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    2 year gap. Murray was drafted after his junior year.

    ...dave
     
  15. Chopper0080

    Chopper0080 2021 - Prove It

    Posts:
    18,063
    Likes Received:
    11,196
    Joined:
    May 15, 2002
    Location:
    Colorado
    Every game I watch Wirfs, I get a little bummed. Not because I don't like Simmons, I just feel like Wirfs would have really helped Kyler and this offense.
     
    SoonerLou likes this.

Share This Page