Kingsbury, The World’s Only 17 Point Offensive Genius

[BritCard]

Oh well he says he’s not hurt well then that changes everything.

I’d rather pay attention to what people do and I can clearly see him clenching his teeth when he throws or the fact that designed runs have been completely taken out of the playbook.

His running has been falling since Miami well before he was landed on. He barely ran before the knock vs Seattle.

Kyler ran 5 times vs Seattle AFTER he hurt his shoulder so it couldn't ever have been that bad.

He also threw for 266 yards and 2 TDs after that sack.

He did all that with the injury at its worst.

He's just playing poorly.

 

[BritCard]

How do you clearly know that? Players lie about the severity of their injuries all the time.

He clearly threw for 266 yards, 2 TDs and ran 5 times in the Seattle game while the injury was fresh.

Its being massively overblown and used as a convenient excuse.

 

[BritCard]

https://www.nfl.com/news/cardinals-...ac-joint-sprain-in-loss-isn-t-expected-to-mis

https://arizonasports.com/story/2458571/cardinals-qb-kyler-murray-working-through-shoulder-issue/

Its a sprain

The source of that is Ian Rapaport who also says in the same reports that its very minor and will be fine by the Pats game.

Its not confirmed a sprain. Either way he simply banged his shoulder and it hurt a little. The end.

People here going on like he has torn ligaments and is 50%.

He was fine by the Pats game. Its no excuse.

 

[Russ Smith]

His running has been falling since Miami well before he was landed on. He barely ran before the knock vs Seattle.

Kyler ran 5 times vs Seattle AFTER he hurt his shoulder so it couldn't ever have been that bad.

He also threw for 266 yards and 2 TDs after that sack.

He did all that with the injury at its worst.

He's just playing poorly.

That's just impossible to say as anybody who has ever played sports and had a sprain can tell you that it's often much worse a few days later. People sprain an ankle get it taped and go back and finish the game and then can't walk for the next several days.

You can see Kyler wincing and moving the arm around it was clearly still bugging him. I agree he's not playing as well but it's in large part because he's IMO trying to protect himself so the instinct to just take off and run, he's fighting.

the 4 games before Seattle he had 74, 67, 106 and 61 yards rushing. He's got 46 in the last 2 games combined so less in the last two than he had in any of the last 4. All 4 of those games he ran at least 10 times, he's run 10 in the last 2 combined.

He is not playing well, he is playing hurt, both can be true, and both are true.

 

[Russ Smith]

The source of that is Ian Rapaport who also says in the same reports that its very minor and will be fine by the Pats game.

Its not confirmed a sprain. Either way he simply banged his shoulder and it hurt a little. The end.

People here going on like he has torn ligaments and is 50%.

He was fine by the Pats game. Its no excuse.

So why did Bill Belichick go out of his way to find footage of Streveler so they could prepare in case he started?

https://calgaryherald.com/sports/fo...veler-sunday-quick-hits-and-straight-up-picks

I think it was likely Kyler was going to play but I don't think BB is stupid, he's not going to waste time finding CFL footage if he doesn't think there's SOME possibility Murray either doesn't start, or doesn't finish the game due to his shoulder.

 

[BritCard]

That's just impossible to say as anybody who has ever played sports and had a sprain can tell you that it's often much worse a few days later. People sprain an ankle get it taped and go back and finish the game and then can't walk for the next several days.

You can see Kyler wincing and moving the arm around it was clearly still bugging him. I agree he's not playing as well but it's in large part because he's IMO trying to protect himself so the instinct to just take off and run, he's fighting.

the 4 games before Seattle he had 74, 67, 106 and 61 yards rushing. He's got 46 in the last 2 games combined so less in the last two than he had in any of the last 4. All 4 of those games he ran at least 10 times, he's run 10 in the last 2 combined.

He is not playing well, he is playing hurt, both can be true, and both are true.

He's not playing well, he's not playing hurt. Literally nobody says he is. The reporting of the injury also reported it was very minor.

Kyler isn't running because teams have sussed us out and Kliff isn't smart enough to counter it.

The non injury is being used by some as a convenient excuse.

 

[BritCard]

So why did Bill Belichick go out of his way to find footage of Streveler so they could prepare in case he started?

https://calgaryherald.com/sports/fo...veler-sunday-quick-hits-and-straight-up-picks

I think it was likely Kyler was going to play but I don't think BB is stupid, he's not going to waste time finding CFL footage if he doesn't think there's SOME possibility Murray either doesn't start, or doesn't finish the game due to his shoulder.

Because the media reported he might be hurt and he'd be dumb not to prepare for it. He's simply reacting to reports.

 

[Russ Smith]

Because the media reported he might be hurt and he'd be dumb not to prepare for it. He's simply reacting to reports.

And once the cards found that out they cleverly had Streveler increase his snaps in practice that week as part of the ploy?

You said literally nobody was reporting he's hurt, literally everyone has been. All week last week and this week he's had an injury designation until Friday due to limited practice reps. I have him on my fantasy team he's been listed as questionable all week until today, just like he was last week. He's been on the injury list both weeks.

One of the things that drove me nuts with Rosen was every time you saw him on the sideline he was pulling his jersey down as if it was too tight and uncomfortable, I took that to be a sign of stress with him. With Kyler people complain he's "pouting" but one thing you never saw, until Seattle, was him wincing, flexing his shoulder, doing arm circles etc. Just never saw it, now everytime I see him on the sideline he's doing it, even in games you can see it. On the slide last week that people are complaining about the former baseball player who slides so well literally turned his body at the last second to make sure his LEFT shoulder was forward not the right. That's not an act, that's not an excuse, it's a with a dinged shoulder who's trying to protect it.

 

[daves]

He hasn't sprained his AC joint. He bruised it, it hurt a couple of days, it healed. That's it.

The source of that is Ian Rapaport who also says in the same reports that its very minor and will be fine by the Pats game.

Its not confirmed a sprain. Either way he simply banged his shoulder and it hurt a little. The end.

People here going on like he has torn ligaments and is 50%.

He was fine by the Pats game. Its no excuse.

Thank you Dr. BritCard!

But, your take is ignorant and incorrect.

According to Ian Rapoport, Murray sprained his AC joint. Although a sprain is often accompanied by bruising, the sprain is exactly NOTHING like a bruise. A sprain is "wrenching or twisting of a joint, with partial rupture of its ligaments. There may also be damage to the associated blood vessels, muscles, tendons, and nerves. A sprain is more serious than a strain, which is simply the overstretching of a muscle, without swelling. Severe sprains are so painful that the joint cannot be used."

The sprain HAS been affecting his performance, and risk of aggravating the injury is a very good reason for limiting Murray's exposure to further hits.

...dbs

 

[Finito]

He hasn't sprained his AC joint. He bruised it, it hurt a couple of days, it healed. That's it.

that’s not really how that works but if you say so.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

He clearly threw for 266 yards, 2 TDs and ran 5 times in the Seattle game while the injury was fresh.

Its being massively overblown and used as a convenient excuse.

I guess he has been on the injury report for the past two weeks as a show right?

 

[BritCard]

I guess he has been on the injury report for the past two weeks as a show right?

Teams He's been on it 1 day this week and 3 days last weeks. Total 4 days. Teams are always super over cautious with QB's.

He practiced fully the last 2 days and is off the injury report now so can we stop making excuses?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Except those were concrete things that happened on the field. Kirk literally dropped an easy pass in the EZ and ZG literally missed yet another FG from a very make able distance.

Your hypothetical of Kliff’s balls shriveling up is a pure assumption of how things maybe could have been different. Not something you could guarantee would have made some major difference in this very game.

This is the least sophisticated take on analyzing a game Ive ever seen. According to your take unless something physical occurs nothing else matters. Thank you for analysis that even my 9 year old could’ve offered three years ago.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Depends on the type of penalties?

If we are leading the league in 12 men on the field, delay of game, illegal formation, etc. Then yes.

False starts, holding, and stupid stuff like that...no. That is on the player. The coach can bench the player for stupid penalties but then we wouldn't have an Oline most games.

Feel free to disagree.

I do disagree. I disagree based on playing football for years through pop Warner, high school, and college and multiple coaches. Penalties are 90% mental. The right mentality is demanded by good coaches. That includes holding and false starts, etc. it’s about self discipline. And that starts at the top.

if my group of employees constantly made errors I would be held accountable. And it would be appropriate. Self discipline starts at the top.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is the least sophisticated take on analyzing a game Ive ever seen. According to your take unless something physical occurs nothing else matters. Thank you for analysis that even my 9 year old could’ve offered three years ago.

somebody’s surly this morning!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That clearly wasn't what I said. I said that specific penalty wasn't.

You can make an argument to carve out almost every individual penalty. But they are all a part of a larger whole - a team with no self discipline. That’s coaching - or failure thereof.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ouch.

We all swing and miss. I have had some bad ones too.

Who doesn’t? I was stoked about The Rosen One. Thankfully was also ready to move on with drafting kyler.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's just impossible to say as anybody who has ever played sports and had a sprain can tell you that it's often much worse a few days later. People sprain an ankle get it taped and go back and finish the game and then can't walk for the next several days.

You can see Kyler wincing and moving the arm around it was clearly still bugging him. I agree he's not playing as well but it's in large part because he's IMO trying to protect himself so the instinct to just take off and run, he's fighting.

the 4 games before Seattle he had 74, 67, 106 and 61 yards rushing. He's got 46 in the last 2 games combined so less in the last two than he had in any of the last 4. All 4 of those games he ran at least 10 times, he's run 10 in the last 2 combined.

He is not playing well, he is playing hurt, both can be true, and both are true.

I think it’s also fair to recognize that he played against two pretty good defensive minds in Carroll and belicheck who designed their defense to counter kyler runs. And either kliff couldn’t find an effective counter or kyler couldn’t exploit what they gave up in defense to contain him.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I think it’s also fair to recognize that he played against two pretty good defensive minds in Carroll and belicheck who designed their defense to counter kyler runs. And either kliff couldn’t find an effective counter or kyler couldn’t exploit what they gave up in defense to contain him.

I think these are very fair points. I'll add until they do find a way to counter this, they'll be seeing a lot more of it. This is why I believe Kyler needs an outside person to work with him in the off season to learn more read defense's instead of just going off his first read or his instincts.

 

[TheCardFan]

I do disagree. I disagree based on playing football for years through pop Warner, high school, and college and multiple coaches. Penalties are 90% mental. The right mentality is demanded by good coaches. That includes holding and false starts, etc. it’s about self discipline. And that starts at the top.

if my group of employees constantly made errors I would be held accountable. And it would be appropriate. Self discipline starts at the top.

I appreciate your perspective but not sure it applies to the NFL as you state.

2018 - we were the #10 least penalized team (101). Does that make Wilks a good coach?
2019 - 121
2020 - 85 through 12 games.

Several good teams/coaches on the list (penalty leaders through 12 games).

Kansas City jumps out on all three lists. Hard for me to say they don't have a good coach/that is accountable.

Bruce Arians (TB) was the most penalized team in 2019 (133)
Kansas City was the most penalized in 2018 (137)
Seattle was the most penalized in 2017 (148)

All really good coaches/teams.

Our biggest issues on offense are false starts and holding (33 total) and total drrive killers. Bottom attachment is all penalties by a Cardinal.

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[TheCardFan]

I think it’s also fair to recognize that he played against two pretty good defensive minds in Carroll and belicheck who designed their defense to counter kyler runs. And either kliff couldn’t find an effective counter or kyler couldn’t exploit what they gave up in defense to contain him.

True except that we did find a way to counter (see Kirk dropped pass and missed FG). We can't act like we weren't in a position to nearly put the game away at halftime (up 17-3 and the ball coming out in 3rd QTR) and a drive that set-up an easy FG opportunity with less than 2 minutes left.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Well you also said you would draft Haskins with the #1 pick & Eli Apple was going to be great.

Never said Apple was going to be great. Said he’d be a 1st round pick. And I was right.

Haskins was put in a terrible situation. But he’s to blame too.

I do like how you follow me though and still get things wrong. Good job.

 

[TaylorSwift]

I gotta really wonder on Kliffs scheme and game planning acumen.

 

[TheCardFan]

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[TaylorSwift]

I think these are very fair points. I'll add until they do find a way to counter this, they'll be seeing a lot more of it. This is why I believe Kyler needs an outside person to work with him in the off season to learn more read defense's instead of just going off his first read or his instincts.

eh, Kyler reads defenses fine for the most part.

Thats becoming overplayed at this point. You dont get 3600 yards passing and 26 tds in 14 games in an NFL season "playing with instincts"

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have built their HOF careers off of making incredible pre snap reads and know where to go with the football off of the first read.

Also,

Why do you have or need Kliff, an offensively focused playcaller who was called "innovative" and a "genius" by the media if you need to bring in an "outside person" to help Kyler with his supposed "inability to read defenses"