Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

[Dr. Jones]

These sentences seem to indicate you think having a female lead (Jedi) in Rey is responsible for "revenue" going down. Couple that with your previous statements above? Seems like you are doubling down. Can you clarify?

Sure. The writing, execution and storyline of the main characters of the trilogy were all failures. The payoffs were never realized and they never even attempted to give a satisfying ending to the original three actors reprising their role as droves of paying fans had hoped for.

Rey was overpowerful. Head strong. Made very little errors of judgement and really did all of her "growth" off screen. How did any of what she became actually happen is these movies?
Fin was an idiot dunderhead. And also minimized in China. So grotesque IMO.
Kylo was a brooding teen crybaby for three films. Like straight up emo loser. Poor Adam Driver.
Poe was underwhelming. Written to be a clear second fiddle to Rey & Finn.
They never put Leia, Luke, or Han together in the film. WTF were you thinking?
They had a brooding emo loser kill Han Solo.

The first film made money off the nostalgia factor and it had some great visuals. Then all of their paying customers chose to not be fooled again for the sequels. The 2nd and 3rd is what happens when you horribly write and execute a script while simultaneously ignoring what your paying customers wanted the whole time.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sure. The writing, execution and storyline of the main characters of the trilogy were all failures. The payoffs were never realized and they never even attempted to give a satisfying ending to the original three actors reprising their role as droves of paying fans had hoped for.

Rey was overpowerful. Head strong. Made very little errors of judgement and really did all of her "growth" off screen. How did any of what she became actually happen is these movies?
Fin was an idiot dunderhead. And also minimized in China. So grotesque IMO.
Kylo was a brooding teen crybaby for three films. Like straight up emo loser. Poor Adam Driver.
Poe was underwhelming. Written to be a clear second fiddle to Rey & Finn.
They never put Leia, Luke, or Han together in the film. WTF were you thinking?
They had a brooding emo loser kill Han Solo.

The first film made money off the nostalgia factor and it had some great visuals. Then all of their paying customers chose to not be fooled again for the sequels. The 2nd and 3rd is what happens when you horribly write and execute a script while simultaneously ignoring what your paying customers wanted the whole time.

You didn't answer my question. You danced around it. I wasn't asking about all the other problems with the trilogy.

 

[Dr. Jones]

You didn't answer my question. You danced around it.

I have a severe issue with the forced social acceptance of divisive cultural issues within our media, culture, and entertainment. The female empowerment era has been fully documented if you look for it. It's overt, hateful toward men, and bigoted towards how men are now portrayed in TV & Cinema. CEO's and execs are plainly saying it in articles now. I don't know what else to tell you.

The casting in the TV shoe Cleopatra was done as a "Political Act" by the director. She said that.
Disney has plainly said what their "agenda" is in these areas.

I love Disney. Have been an annual passholder for decades. Stock owner for 10 years now. I hate seeing a company I once admired overtly working to push divisive political narratives in our culture.

Especially when it is better to just write better if that's what you want. Don't make the heroine infallible while making all of your men bumbling fools. That's all I really want.

And from the box office results. I am not alone.

 

[Stout]

I try and skip that forum for my blood pressure but not responding above speaks volumes.

Same. When some yahoos tried to personally blame me for Cheeto Jesus, I stepped back out of the forum, remembering why I left in the first place.

 

[Covert Rain]

I have a severe issue with the forced social acceptance of divisive cultural issues within our media, culture, and entertainment. The female empowerment era has been fully documented if you look for it. It's overt, hateful toward men, and bigoted towards how men are now portrayed in TV & Cinema. CEO's and execs are plainly saying it in articles now. I don't know what else to tell you.

The casting in the TV shoe Cleopatra was done as a "Political Act" by the director. She said that.
Disney has plainly said what their "agenda" is in these areas.

I love Disney. Have been an annual passholder for decades. Stock owner for 10 years now. I hate seeing a company I once admired overtly working to push divisive political narratives in our culture.

Especially when it is better to just write better if that's what you want. Don't make the heroine infallible while making all of your men bumbling fools. That's all I really want.

And from the box office results. I am not alone.

You are still dancing. Do you feel that casting a female lead is the cause of the last two movies reduced revenue? Yes or no?

In terms of your other points, I will play. The problem with your argument is that many I have seen hide behind similar stances or use it as a crutch to call everything a company like Disney or anybody else does "Forced social acceptance" or "political" when in reality there is some good old fashion sexism or bigotry behind it. How do we know?

If you have never had any other conclusion, then self-reflection is in order. It can't ever be that someone was good for the part. It can't ever be an artistic choice to have someone different play a lead. It can't ever be that someone wants to simply support equal representation verses fall in line with the old and tired Hollywood stereotypes that have dominated the business forever.

If the automatic assumption is that it can't possibly be anything other than "forced social acceptance" or it's "political" then it's a you problem. I see comments like yours that make a definitive statement and it's always the same every single time. That's the problem. It can't be another possibility in their eyes.

When can women lead a Star Wars movie in your eyes? What is your criteria for it being anything other than "forced social acceptance" or it's "political"?

 

[Dr. Jones]

You are still dancing. Do you feel that casting a female lead is the cause of the last two movies reduced revenue? Yes or no?

In terms of your other points, I will play. The problem with your argument is that many I have seen hide behind similar stances or use it as a crutch to call everything a company like Disney or anybody else does "Forced social acceptance" or "political" when in reality there is some good old fashion sexism or bigotry behind it. How do we know?

If you have never had any other conclusion, then self-reflection is in order. It can't ever be that someone was good for the part. It can't ever be an artistic choice to have someone different play a lead. It can't ever be that someone wants to simply support equal representation verses fall in line with the old and tired Hollywood stereotypes that have dominated the business forever.

The automatic assumption is that it can't possibly be "forced social acceptance" or it's "political". Not for one second do you consider that it's anything but. I see comments like yours that make a definitive statement and it's always the same every single time. That's the problem.

When can women lead a Star Wars movie in your eyes?

Oh.... No. On its face it can;t be the only issue. Do I believe the casting decision contributed to a cascade of outcomes that led to the storyline issues and then reduced revenue? Yes. Absolutely.

To your last line of when can they? When the stories are written originally, then it could happen at any point. Was Rey originally meant to be a skywalker? No. She was meant to be a Kenobi.

George Lucas on the movie from Iger's book:

"Just prior to the global release, Kathy screened The Force Awakens for George. He didn’t hide his disappointment. 'There’s nothing new,' he said. In each of the films in the original trilogy, it was important to him to present new worlds, new stories, new characters, and new technologies. In this one, he said, 'There weren’t enough visual or technical leaps forward.'"

Make an original work of art. Don't pigeon hole everything in to the boxes you need to fill. For Pete's sake..... Just look at the Oscar requirements that are in effect this year. It's insane.

Regardless..... This is an Indy thread. I am optimistic that the reshoots fix the issues mentioned earlier. I have hope for all films, but am continuously let down. I love Indy and hope for the best.

 

[Covert Rain]

Oh.... No. On its face it can;t be the only issue. Do I believe the casting decision contributed to a cascade of outcomes that led to the storyline issues and then reduced revenue? Yes. Absolutely.

To your last line of when can they? When the stories are written originally, then it could happen at any point. Was Rey originally meant to be a skywalker? No. She was meant to be a Kenobi.

George Lucas on the movie from Iger's book:

Make an original work of art. Don't pigeon hole everything in to the boxes you need to fill. For Pete's sake..... Just look at the Oscar requirements that are in effect this year. It's insane.

Regardless..... This is an Indy thread. I am optimistic that the reshoots fix the issues mentioned earlier. I have hope for all films, but am continuously let down. I love Indy and hope for the best.

So you essentially blame the casting of a woman. Saying that the casting of a woman then caused a cascade doesn't hide what you are saying one bit. You keep trying to blur the lines of the topic by bringing up if she was supposed to be a Skywalker or Kenobi or all the other problems with the films which is a distraction and not what was being asked at all. You seem to just automatically believe every similar casting is to check a box. Again, that's a you issue not a Disney one.

 

[Dr. Jones]

So you essentially blame the casting of a woman. Saying that the casting of a woman then caused a cascade doesn't hide what you are saying one bit. You keep trying to blur the lines of the topic by bringing up if she was supposed to be a Skywalker or Kenobi or all the other problems with the films which is a distraction and not what was being asked at all. You seem to just automatically believe every similar casting is to check a box. Again, that's a you issue not a Disney one.

I blame the mechanism, leadership, and intent of the mission. Especially when they have been transparent the entire time.

I would ask you to be more curious as we discuss the differences between us. Your methods seems to be more slanted towards putting me in the box you already believed I occupy. I assure you, we are all much more complex than that.

 

[Covert Rain]

I blame the mechanism, leadership, and intent of the mission. Especially when they have been transparent the entire time.

I would ask you to be more curious as we discuss the differences between us. Your methods seems to be more slanted towards putting me in the box you already believed I occupy. I assure you, we are all much more complex than that.

You are assuming you know the intent, leadership motives and you are also assuming writers don’t have creative control as a default.

Your broad and seemingly automatic assumptions put you in a box. Not me. You should take your own advice.

I am not the one broadly assuming boxes are being checked because women are finally getting their chance to shine in Hollywood.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You are assuming you know the intent, leadership motives and you are also assuming writers don’t have creative control as a default.

Your broad and seemingly automatic assumptions put you in a box. Not me. You should take your own advice.

I am not the one broadly assuming boxes are being checked because women are finally getting their chance to shine in Hollywood.

Complaining about Rogue One because the “lead” is a female… in a movie where she’s basically the ONLY female character, is laughable sexism to an unhinged degree. Like… Incel-esque.

 

[Dr. Jones]

You are assuming you know the intent, leadership motives and you are also assuming writers don’t have creative control as a default.

Your broad and seemingly automatic assumptions put you in a box. Not me. You should take your own advice.

I am not the one broadly assuming boxes are being checked because women are finally getting their chance to shine in Hollywood.

Yeah.... you're not listening. I already addressed some of the things your saying and am not interested in being lectured. Especially when more understanding of what I already said would help. Doing "the big flip around" is always a poor look.

I'm done with this sidebar. Back to me being hopeful about Indy. I am hopeful the re-shoots won't ruin this legacy IP.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah.... you're not listening. I already addressed some of the things your saying and am not interested in being lectured. Especially when more understanding of what I already said would help. Doing "the big flip around" is always a poor look.

I'm done with this sidebar. Back to me being hopeful about Indy. I am hopeful the re-shoots won't ruin this legacy IP.

Oh...what you have said has come through loud and clear. Even with the added noise.

 

[Ronin]

Complaining about Rogue One because the “lead” is a female… in a movie where she’s basically the ONLY female character, is laughable sexism to an unhinged degree. Like… Incel-esque.

You have insulted a poster not once, but twice in this thread. I think that deserves a couple days off.

 

[Covert Rain]

Indiana Jones current RT Score 62% (117 Reviews). Audience score obviously are not in yet and that matter to me. Especially, if fans love it.

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[Cheesebeef]

Indiana Jones current RT Score 62% (117 Reviews). Audience score obviously are not in yet and that matter to me. Especially, if fans love it.

​

Actually up to 66% now.

Don’t think I can remember a lot of movies who’s first big batch of reviews were overwhelmingly mixed to bad like the ones coming out of Cannes… that then took an upturn the more reviewers saw it like this has.

 

[Covert Rain]

Actually up to 66% now.

Don’t think I can remember a lot of movies who’s first big batch of reviews were overwhelmingly mixed to bad like the ones coming out of Cannes… that then took an upturn the more reviewers saw it like this has.

That is weird.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That is weird.

I wonder if the type of critic and setting in Cannes had a bit of a negative effect on the movie.

66% still ain’t great. That’s about what The Flash sits at. But even then, if it merely rises to The Flash level of just general entertainment which I gave a B-, that will be a hell of a lot better than Crystal Skull which was a miserable D- stinkbomb from the second that CGI Gopher poked his head out of the mound post Paramount fade.

 

[Covert Rain]

I wonder if the type of critic and setting in Cannes had a bit of a negative effect on the movie.

66% still ain’t great. That’s about what The Flash sits at. But even then, if it merely rises to The Flash level of just general entertainment which I gave a B-, that will be a hell of a lot better than Crystal Skull which was a miserable D- stinkbomb from the second that CGI Gopher poked his head out of the mound post Paramount fade.

The average Audience Score for the Flash was 59%. It's possible the audiences love this movie. If that happens it could be OK. If it has Flash like response? Uh oh.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The average Audience Score for the Flash was 59%. It's possible the audiences love this movie. If that happens it could be OK. If it has Flash like response? Uh oh.

The further I get away from The Flash, the more I dislike it and can feel the ludicrous cynicism that poured through every decision made in that film.

As much as I loved seeing Michael Keaton back in cape and cowl, they did him wrong in that movie. He was basically used as a prop to sell an unsellable movie.

 

[Covert Rain]

The further I get away from The Flash, the more I dislike it and can feel the ludicrous cynicism that poured through every decision made in that film.

As much as I loved seeing Michael Keaton back in cape and cowl, they did him wrong in that movie. He was basically used as a prop to sell an unsellable movie.

I mean, despite the Indiana Jones critics, it's possible that fans love this movie much more than critics. We have seen a couple instances over the past few years where it's not close. If that is the case, Indiana Jones has a chance.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I mean, despite the Indiana Jones critics, it's possible that fans love this movie much more than critics. We have seen a couple instances over the past few years where it's not close. If that is the case, Indiana Jones has a chance.

I think it kinda bombs regardless. Indy ain’t Star Wars. Younger generation doesn’t give much of a frack about this franchise and the last one left such a terrible taste in people’s mouths that I think even lukewarm word of mouth kills this one quick, especially with the gauntlet of Mission, Barbie and Oppenheimer about to obliterate everything in its path.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I can't see the title without thinking the Butt Dial of Destiny

 

[Covert Rain]

I think it kinda bombs regardless. Indy ain’t Star Wars. Younger generation doesn’t give much of a frack about this franchise and the last one left such a terrible taste in people’s mouths that I think even lukewarm word of mouth kills this one quick, especially with the gauntlet of Mission, Barbie and Oppenheimer about to obliterate everything in its path.

Maybe they don't do as badly as we think. Seems like they have been pretty reserve on the marketing comapred to Crystal Skull. My gosh, when that movie came out they had every freaking tie in possible like fast food, soda deal etc. etc. Seems a bit more reserved this time around even though you do see some stuff out there. Maybe it's for the reason you mentioned here.

 

[cardncubfan]

I can't see the title without thinking the Butt Dial of Destiny

The Adult Diaper of Destiny comes to mind.

I'll watch it regardless of old Indy. I love all of these types of movies. Tomb Raider, Indy, Romancing the Stone, etc.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I may catch this when it hits my streamers but probably not in the theater. Cheese is right IMO. The negative press is one negative factor but it's will get left behind with Mission, Barbie, and Oppenheimer coming.