I guess Nash isn't the worst defensive PG in the league after all

[AceP]

WHAT THE HELL?!? Go grab a tape and watch 96 minutes of NO at Denver games before talking about CP3's defence on Billups!

 

[SunsTzu]

Paul hasn't been guarding Billups much. Barkley ripped the hornets for this last night because they've been using the off-guard to cover billups and it's been a huge problem for them. Chris paul is a fine defender for his size, so i don't understand this thread at all.

Yeah, I don't understand this thread really. I guess you can say Paul isn't a good defender because his coach isn't having him guard Billups, but it's not Paul getting torched most the time it's his teammates.

I don't think Paul is a good defender but he's certainly better than Nash.

 

[Mainstreet]

I seldom agree with Kerr, however, in Paul Coro's blog of 4-23-09 I sort of have the same vision for the Suns. Overall, it's a good read irregardless of one's mindset.

"We've got to continue to add guys with the right mindset and with the athleticism that we need to become better defensively. You slowly but surely build up the personnel and you try to make the transition as the older guys move on and break in the younger guys. Hopefully, you win a lot of games while you're doing so."

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PaulCoro/51692

 

[D-Dogg]

Cp3, best pg in the league, my ass.

Derron Williams is the best PG in the league. That guy is outstanding.

 

[Mainstreet]

Derron Williams is the best PG in the league. That guy is outstanding.

I guess you would consider him a franchise player?

I wouldn't disagree but I wonder if he can ever lead Utah to the promised land.

 

[joshstmarie]

I'm picking on some fans that would look away from truth to worship Nash, as in Nash leading in charges taken means he is good at defense if not better than said Paul and then arguing Nash way better on offense than Paul etc.

misquoting people is no way to get you point across. you and steeldog have really honed that skill. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I SAID NASH IS NOT A GOOD DEFENDER? instead of being a jackass and and purposely continually misquoting me why dont you do yourself a favor and go through my MANY posts to where i have ADMITTED that NASH is a BAD DEFENDER. the point you cant get through your thick skull is that there is absolutely NO ONE out there who is going to do a better job than nash at this point in time.

its like you guys are DYING for any excuse to keep nash as the worst defender in the freakin league and will totally disregard anyone elses input to make your point more valid in your own head.

also i love how you admit nash is still a top 5 pg, yet you want to get rid of him? addition by subtraction isnt going to work right now, i mean i know tyron lue is probably out there waiting to take the helm and play some gnarly defense but come on.

 

[cly2tw]

its like you guys are DYING for any excuse to keep nash as the worst defender in the freakin league and will totally disregard anyone elses input to make your point more valid in your own head.

also i love how you admit nash is still a top 5 pg, yet you want to get rid of him? addition by subtraction isnt going to work right now, i mean i know tyron lue is probably out there waiting to take the helm and play some gnarly defense but come on.

Read my posts and you will see I was quoting you guys in referring Nash as top 5. I was making the point that however YOU guys rank him, it's the best in MY opinion that Suns trade him. And I was also anwering someone saying nobody wanted Nash now by quoting you guys ranking him top-5, then I would have had a long list of out-of-top-5 PGs in the league I'd prefer now.

 

[Covert Rain]

Like we need an excuse to call Nash a bad defender? It's a fact. Holy crap. Just like it's a fact he is a great offensive talent. It's a fact.

This team will not win a title with Nash. It's time to move on. You don't build a team around a 36 year old offensive minded PG when the entire league knows you don't play enough defense to get it done.

 

[LV-Suns]

Paul hasn't been guarding Billups much. Barkley ripped the hornets for this last night because they've been using the off-guard to cover billups and it's been a huge problem for them. Chris paul is a fine defender for his size, so i don't understand this thread at all.

Finally.

Rasual Butler was guarding Billups most of the game.

Fail thread.

 

[Mainstreet]

Like we need an excuse to call Nash a bad defender? It's a fact. Holy crap. Just like it's a fact he is a great offensive talent. It's a fact.

This team will not win a title with Nash. It's time to move on. You don't build a team around a 36 year old offensive minded PG when the entire league knows you don't play enough defense to get it done.

Who's suggesting the Suns build a team around Nash?

I would, however, like to keep Nash as the face of the franchise until he retires or a better PG supplants him. Keeping Nash does not mean the Suns cannot improve their defense. It seems that many fans want to blame the Suns porous defense entirely on Nash. I'm sorry but the Suns whole defense was a sieve. IMO, the Suns need to add defensive players to form a sound defensive team. This is not going to happen in one season so I see no reason the Suns need to to crawl around in the gutter (by dumping Nash) while they are getting it done. Now if the Suns had their 2010 first round pick, a case could be made for a dramatic rebuild job by cleaning house.

 

[Covert Rain]

Who's suggesting the Suns build a team around Nash?

I would, however, like to keep Nash as the face of the franchise until he retires or a better PG supplants him. Keeping Nash does not mean the Suns cannot improve their defense. It seems that many fans want to blame the Suns porous defense entirely on Nash. I'm sorry but the Suns whole defense was a sieve. IMO, the Suns need to add defensive players to form a sound defensive team. This is not going to happen in one season so I see no reason the Suns need to to crawl around in the gutter (by dumping Nash) while they are getting it done. Now if the Suns had their 2010 first round pick, a case could be made for a dramatic rebuild job by cleaning house.

Steve Kerr. He wants to continue to build around Steve if any of his latest comments ring true.

Also, I never said it was all on Steve. He is a huge part. I also blame this system and the front office for the type of players brought in to play this system.

I would love to keep Nash if the plan is to bring him off the bench sometime soon. You and I both know that won't happen if they resign him.

 

[cly2tw]

Who's suggesting the Suns build a team around Nash?

I would, however, like to keep Nash as the face of the franchise until he retires or a better PG supplants him. Keeping Nash does not mean the Suns cannot improve their defense. It seems that many fans want to blame the Suns porous defense entirely on Nash. I'm sorry but the Suns whole defense was a sieve. IMO, the Suns need to add defensive players to form a sound defensive team. This is not going to happen in one season so I see no reason the Suns need to to crawl around in the gutter (by dumping Nash) while they are getting it done. Now if the Suns had their 2010 first round pick, a case could be made for a dramatic rebuild job by cleaning house.

Because if we keep Nash, he will be the dominant alpha dog, dominating the ball over 35 min a game as he always has been. It's hard to work on non-Nash style of basketball for future without Nash. Any transition can only start after Nash departure. I wished Nash could play like Stockton, effective without dominating the ball. It looks like a naive wish indeed.

 

[Mainstreet]

Because if we keep Nash, he will be the dominant alpha dog, dominating the ball over 35 min a game as he always has been. It's hard to work on non-Nash style of basketball for future without Nash. Any transition can only start after Nash departure. I wished Nash could play like Stockton, effective without dominating the ball. It looks like a naive wish indeed.

I think Nash can play this style and he certainly has the basketball IQ. Of course, Stockton had Karl Malone to pass the ball to. Without a Malone type player, this forces Nash to continually create. Take Nash out of the game and watch the offense crumble.

 

[D-Dogg]

I guess you would consider him a franchise player?

I wouldn't disagree but I wonder if he can ever lead Utah to the promised land.

I absolutely think he's a franchise player. I think he's got a better shot at leading Utah to the promised land than CP3 does of leading New Orleans there.

Even tonight, on a bad all around game, he hits the gamewinning shot after talking with boozer about slipping the screen and roll because he was going to be doubled off of it, and he ends up with a great look. Deron's bball IQ is off the charts, his shot is money, he's good defensively and his passing and vision is spectacular. I think he's the best PG in the league, and I believe that in 5 years, everyone else will agree.

 

[cly2tw]

I think Nash can play this style and he certainly has the basketball IQ. Of course, Stockton had Karl Malone to pass the ball to. Without a Malone type player, this forces Nash to continually create. Take Nash out of the game and watch the offense crumble.

What's exactly the thing Malone could do on offense but Amare couldn't? You know that Malone was primarily a face-up offensive player like Amare, don't you? And for the very reason that Nash has to play long min. as you just listed, transition can't start without parting ways with him first. It'd be the old pattern again: everything relies on him but he can't deliver when it counts the most, due to his limitation.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I absolutely think he's a franchise player. I think he's got a better shot at leading Utah to the promised land than CP3 does of leading New Orleans there.

Even tonight, on a bad all around game, he hits the gamewinning shot after talking with boozer about slipping the screen and roll because he was going to be doubled off of it, and he ends up with a great look. Deron's bball IQ is off the charts, his shot is money, he's good defensively and his passing and vision is spectacular. I think he's the best PG in the league, and I believe that in 5 years, everyone else will agree.

I've never announced it but I have been feeling the same way as well. It's a shame he is so underrated, and he's not even in the same conversation as Chris Paul too often. Deron williams needs a better supporting cast and he would be unstoppable. When CJ Miles and Ronnie Brewer are your best help in the backcourt, you aren't going very far (although I am a Brewer fan).

 

[Mainstreet]

What's exactly the thing Malone could do on offense but Amare couldn't? You know that Malone was primarily a face-up offensive player like Amare, don't you? And for the very reason that Nash has to play long min. as you just listed, transition can't start without parting ways with him first. It'd be the old pattern again: everything relies on him but he can't deliver when it counts the most, due to his limitation.

Although Malone and Amare were face-up offensive players, that's about it. Malone was built like a truck and often relied on his bruising power around the basket. He also led with his huge elbows like Shaq used to be able to get away with. Amare relies more on athleticism inside and often cannot always maintain or create position on his own. It seems Stockton had a nice career playing beside Malone, who once again was more of a bruiser than a gazelle.

 

[Shzm13]

paraphrase: Amare = soft

 

[mojorizen7]

paraphrase: Amare = soft

I completely disagree with that. My definition of an NBA player that is soft is a guy that shy's away from contact,can't finish, or stay focused when facing excessive physicality. Amare is one of the best finishers around the rim in the league when gettting bumped and hit. Just because he doesn't play defense or stick his nose in there for rebounds doesn't make him soft. He'd simply rather score.

 

[Mainstreet]

Just because he doesn't play defense or stick his nose in there for rebounds doesn't make him soft. He'd simply rather score.

Okay...

 

[mojorizen7]

Okay...

You disagree? Whats your definition of a soft player? Is Nash soft?
Marion? I say no and yes respectively.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Amare is a rare case. On defense he seems to prefer letting his opponent blow by him instead of banging around, risking the blocking foul or taking a charge. On offense, he is one of the best finishers in history. While he doesnt seek out contact ala Paul Pierce, he can deal with it in a deadly effective manner.

 

[Mainstreet]

You disagree? Whats your definition of a soft player? Is Nash soft?
Marion? I say no and yes respectively.

I think it's more of how a player plays the game more than anything else based upon his physical abilities. I was just getting the adrenaline flowing more or less than seeking a serious discussion.

This off season is so slow. I am presently burying myself in the NFL Draft to keep my sanity. I just can't bring myself to watch any of the NBA playoff games. How are you dealing with all this basketball downtime?

 

[mojorizen7]

I think it's more of how a player plays the game more than anything else based upon his physical abilities. I was just getting the adrenaline flowing more or less than seeking a serious discussion.

This off season is so slow. I am presently burying myself in the NFL Draft to keep my sanity. I just can't bring myself to watch any of the NBA playoff games. How are you dealing with all this basketball downtime?

NFL Draft for sure. RAMS own 2nd pick and i'm hoping they don't get cute.
Hoping for OT Monroe there, and praying that Laurinaitis somehow falls to us at #35.

 

[Mainstreet]

NFL Draft for sure. RAMS own 2nd pick and i'm hoping they don't get cute.
Hoping for OT Monroe there, and praying that Laurinaitis somehow falls to us at #35.

It looks like the Rams had a good draft. You nailed Laurinaitis in the second round.