I’m not convinced….

Harry

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What a mess! I know this won’t be popular but to me this was more of a Raider loss than a Cards’ win. The Raiders should have put 30 pts on the board in the first half alone. In the second half they played not to lose; allowing tons of cushion on short throws. They assumed the Cards would run out of time and they almost did. The Raiders failed to blitz (which apparently scares Murray) and that ended them.

Kingsbury was a non-factor. He did try a pitifully executed shovel pass. How about the slant that bounced off Ertz? Murray seemed to think Ertz was wrong but how often in the red zone recently have receivers not gotten the play? Green’s slant is short of the end zone even if he catches it. Compare it to the one the Raiders disguised and ran with Adams. Nothing in Kingsbury’s plays seem to confuse the defense. The 2 pt plays were all Murray. Nothing created an open receiver. The one Green caught (?) was his experience, Murray moving him and a throw few if any other QBs could have delivered. Kingsbury has no 2 minute play set. They squander timeouts. He calls pitifully designed behind the line throws that never work. How many 2 yard routes were run with virtually no potential to advance the ball? On third down where we’re passes designed to be long enough to secure the first. The best plays were created by Murray running for his life.

There were positive signs. The O-line, especially Pugh played exceptionally well. Williams showed why he has run for 1000+ yds before. Murray again proved he can be nearly impossible to contain if you don’t blitz. Dortch is for real. The tackling looked better, particularly in the second half. The run defense was slightly improved.

On the bad news side that I haven’t already fully covered Murray is still intimidated by pressure. They need to keep Williams in to block more often. Brown is not much of a replacement for Hopkins, though he’ll be a factor when Hopkins returns. The defense has zero interceptions. Against a top QB they would have lost the game. The rush was slightly better; Watt helped but was constantly double-teamed. Somebody else has to step up. The zone pass defense was terrible, especially in the first half.

This team again arrived again not ready to play. There was no intensity. They hung their heads throughout the first half when the fell behind instead of responding with resolve Even with the Raiders openly smiling at them. Sure it looked better in the second half but the Raiders played not to lose. The Raiders showed no killer instinct. They are a bad team and deserve to be 0-2. Trey Lance should be a cautionary reminder of why the Cards can’t just let theit QB take over with runs. If Crosby isn’t exhausted he likely sacks Murray near the game’s end. That would have probably ended the game and maybe left Murray hurt. Simply put Murray had to run too often. He’s a great athlete and can be a special player but that type of winning strategy is not sustainable. At this point I don’t really expect Kingsbury to change. Murray probably gets hurt and it now looks like a losing record to me.
 

DaHilg

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Not how the NFL tracks that. But thanks for the reminder he took us the playoffs last year.

Ya Kliffy did - smh… posted a very analytic post last year. ~80% of the teams that select a QB #1 overall made the playoffs within 3 years. I don’t believe 80% of those teams had great coaches that made them from 1st to last. I do believe when you have the #1 pick and select a QB, most times that QB is of enough NFL talent to get your team into the playoffs w in 3 years.
 

bankybruce

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Ya Kliffy did - smh… posted a very analytic post last year. ~80% of the teams that select a QB #1 overall made the playoffs within 3 years. I don’t believe 80% of those teams had great coaches that made them from 1st to last. I do believe when you have the #1 pick and select a QB, most times that QB is of enough NFL talent to get your team into the playoffs w in 3 years.
So that leads to the question. How did we make the playoffs and how does Kliff have a .500 record is Kliff, Kyler and Keim all stink? Your analytics says the QB did it, so did he do in spite of Keim and Kliff or did Kyle and Kliff do it in spite of Keim's roster?

Does your analytics also say how many of those QBs picked #1 also had a new HC and/or GM? I'd assume you'd have at leasr a.new HC if your team was bad enough for the #1 pick.
 

DaHilg

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So that leads to the question. How did we make the playoffs and how does Kliff have a .500 record is Kliff, Kyler and Keim all stink? Your analytics says the QB did it, so did he do in spite of Keim and Kliff or did Kyle and Kliff do it in spite of Keim's roster?

Does your analytics also say how many of those QBs picked #1 also had a new HC and/or GM? I'd assume you'd have at leasr a.new HC if your team was bad enough for the #1 pick.
Yup that’s exactly what I’m saying. You could of had Urban Meyer as the coach and accomplished as much as Kliffy has thus far with AZ. Heck prob even more.

… and it’s not my analytics, it’s NFL factual history. Just crunch the numbers yourself and you’ll get the same results.
 

bankybruce

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Yup that’s exactly what I’m saying. You could of had Urban Meyer as the coach and accomplished as much as Kliffy has thus far with AZ. Heck prob about even more.

… and it’s not my analytics, it’s NFL factual history. Just crunch the numbers yourself and you’ll get the same results.
But according to this board, they all suck. That all I'm trying to show, they can't all suck. I think Kyler on his best day can beat any team no matter the coach. I think Kliff is becoming a good coach and could eventually be great. I think Keim is slightly below average and he is what is holding us back from being a super bowl team. Look at Kliff for the 3 weeks without Kyler last year. 2-1 while beating Seattle and San Francisco on the road. We did get stomped my Cam Newton though.

As for you Analytics, a mentor of mine once said "correlation does not equal causation", meaning that drafting a QB #1 does not mean that's why you're successful though. Most all teams who pick #1 overhaul their team and coaching staff and by year 3 its a new team.

This is all my opinion though without digging into the numbers, which I won't do because it'll ruin football for me.
 

DaHilg

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So that leads to the question. How did we make the playoffs and how does Kliff have a .500 record is Kliff, Kyler and Keim all stink? Your analytics says the QB did it, so did he do in spite of Keim and Kliff or did Kyle and Kliff do it in spite of Keim's roster?

Does your analytics also say how many of those QBs picked #1 also had a new HC and/or GM? I'd assume you'd have at leasr a.new HC if your team was bad enough for the #1 pick.
But according to this board, they all suck. That all I'm trying to show, they can't all suck. I think Kyler on his best day can beat any team no matter the coach. I think Kliff is becoming a good coach and could eventually be great. I think Keim is slightly below average and he is what is holding us back from being a super bowl team. Look at Kliff for the 3 weeks without Kyler last year. 2-1 while beating Seattle and San Francisco on the road. We did get stomped my Cam Newton though.

As for you Analytics, a mentor of mine once said "correlation does not equal causation", meaning that drafting a QB #1 does not mean that's why you're successful though. Most all teams who pick #1 overhaul their team and coaching staff and by year 3 its a new team.

This is all my opinion though without digging into the numbers, which I won't do because it'll ruin football for me.
Ya but you aren’t diving into the details.. those 3 weeks weren’t as glamorous as they look in the W and L column. Seattle had just gotten RW3 back from injury and had scored a team total of 28 points across 3 games, averaging 9.33 pts per a game in that stretch! Sure as heck hope any team in the league can beat that (and yes they lost all 3 games in that stretch). SF was a HOT mess at the time 3-4 (and about to become 3-5 vs us) - not even close to the team they would become at playoff time. They were also preparing for kyler who got scratched last minute. Then absolutely man handled by Carolina.

Yes we got 2 Ws, but vs 2 very bad teams at the time.
 

cardpa

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What a mess! I know this won’t be popular but to me this was more of a Raider loss than a Cards’ win. The Raiders should have put 30 pts on the board in the first half alone. In the second half they played not to lose; allowing tons of cushion on short throws. They assumed the Cards would run out of time and they almost did. The Raiders failed to blitz (which apparently scares Murray) and that ended them.

Kingsbury was a non-factor. He did try a pitifully executed shovel pass. How about the slant that bounced off Ertz? Murray seemed to think Ertz was wrong but how often in the red zone recently have receivers not gotten the play? Green’s slant is short of the end zone even if he catches it. Compare it to the one the Raiders disguised and ran with Adams. Nothing in Kingsbury’s plays seem to confuse the defense. The 2 pt plays were all Murray. Nothing created an open receiver. The one Green caught (?) was his experience, Murray moving him and a throw few if any other QBs could have delivered. Kingsbury has no 2 minute play set. They squander timeouts. He calls pitifully designed behind the line throws that never work. How many 2 yard routes were run with virtually no potential to advance the ball? On third down where we’re passes designed to be long enough to secure the first. The best plays were created by Murray running for his life.

There were positive signs. The O-line, especially Pugh played exceptionally well. Williams showed why he has run for 1000+ yds before. Murray again proved he can be nearly impossible to contain if you don’t blitz. Dortch is for real. The tackling looked better, particularly in the second half. The run defense was slightly improved.

On the bad news side that I haven’t already fully covered Murray is still intimidated by pressure. They need to keep Williams in to block more often. Brown is not much of a replacement for Hopkins, though he’ll be a factor when Hopkins returns. The defense has zero interceptions. Against a top QB they would have lost the game. The rush was slightly better; Watt helped but was constantly double-teamed. Somebody else has to step up. The zone pass defense was terrible, especially in the first half.

This team again arrived again not ready to play. There was no intensity. They hung their heads throughout the first half when the fell behind instead of responding with resolve Even with the Raiders openly smiling at them. Sure it looked better in the second half but the Raiders played not to lose. The Raiders showed no killer instinct. They are a bad team and deserve to be 0-2. Trey Lance should be a cautionary reminder of why the Cards can’t just let theit QB take over with runs. If Crosby isn’t exhausted he likely sacks Murray near the game’s end. That would have probably ended the game and maybe left Murray hurt. Simply put Murray had to run too often. He’s a great athlete and can be a special player but that type of winning strategy is not sustainable. At this point I don’t really expect Kingsbury to change. Murray probably gets hurt and it now looks like a losing record to me.
Williams actually didn't even have 1,000 career yards coming into this season. Other than that I agree with every other thing you stated.
 

bankybruce

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Ya but you aren’t diving into the details.. those 3 weeks weren’t as glamorous as they look in the W and L column. Seattle had just gotten RW3 back from injury and had scored a team total of 28 points across 3 games, averaging 9.33 pts per a game in that stretch! Sure as heck hope any team in the league can beat that (and yes they lost all 3 games in that stretch). SF was a HOT mess at the time 3-4 (and about to become 3-5 vs us) - not even close to the team they would become at playoff time. They were also preparing for kyler who got scratched last minute. Then absolutely man handled by Carolina.

Yes we got 2 Ws, but vs 2 very bad teams at the time.
You make solid points, winning division games on the road in the NFL is still very difficult with you back up QB and McCoy looked pretty darn good, the same McCoy that other laughed when I was was a great FA signing. Lets not forget, we went into LA the year before and played a Rams team that started John Wolford and had no Kupp with the playoffs on the line and had to depend on Streveler after Kyler got hurt. Keim brought in a great backup and Kliff coached much better this time around. There are so many variables here and that is what makes football so fun. It's not all about one person!
 

DaHilg

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You make solid points, winning division games on the road in the NFL is still very difficult with you back up QB and McCoy looked pretty darn good, the same McCoy that other laughed when I was was a great FA signing. Lets not forget, we went into LA the year before and played a Rams team that started John Wolford and had no Kupp with the playoffs on the line and had to depend on Streveler after Kyler got hurt. Keim brought in a great backup and Kliff coached much better this time around. There are so many variables here and that is what makes football so fun. It's not all about one person!
Completely agree and I think we are on the same page.. think Colt is a very good backup and was a great signing for many reasons. I believe he’s won games w each team he’s been a backup for - Skins, Giants and us.
 

Harry

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Williams actually didn't even have 1,000 career yards coming into this season. Other than that I agree with every other thing you stated.
Sorry I meant career where he was something like 980. This has been my week to apologize
 

gimpy

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Ya but you aren’t diving into the details.. those 3 weeks weren’t as glamorous as they look in the W and L column. Seattle had just gotten RW3 back from injury and had scored a team total of 28 points across 3 games, averaging 9.33 pts per a game in that stretch! Sure as heck hope any team in the league can beat that (and yes they lost all 3 games in that stretch). SF was a HOT mess at the time 3-4 (and about to become 3-5 vs us) - not even close to the team they would become at playoff time. They were also preparing for kyler who got scratched last minute. Then absolutely man handled by Carolina.

Yes we got 2 Ws, but vs 2 very bad teams at the time.
What kind of a person thinks that way? Hmm? A win is a win. Who cares if they they were a "hot mess", or if their qb just got back from injury. Everybody on here wants to downplay every Cardinals win with a "yeah, but".

I've never seen so many people complain about something good happening to the Cards. We played those two games with a backup qb. So we should forfeit those two games, even though one of the teams was playing their starting qb? I think not.
It seems like about half the posts on here are dropping the Cards for the play in the first half, but they still won the game.
 

DaHilg

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What kind of a person thinks that way? Hmm? A win is a win. Who cares if they they were a "hot mess", or if their qb just got back from injury. Everybody on here wants to downplay every Cardinals win with a "yeah, but".

I've never seen so many people complain about something good happening to the Cards. We played those two games with a backup qb. So we should forfeit those two games, even though one of the teams was playing their starting qb? I think not.
It seems like about half the posts on here are dropping the Cards for the play in the first half, but they still won the game.
What are you talking about? You’re quite out of context here.. no one was saying a W wasn’t a W. This was simply a take on those W’s not being because of Coach Bro’s coaching prowess, but rather because of the competition we were playing.

Do people say what a great job Bill Bellichek does when he beats a 4-8 Jets team they are suppose to beat. No. Do they say he does a great job when he shuts down a good team? Yes.

Pretty simple amigo.
 

oaken1

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What kind of a person thinks that way? Hmm? A win is a win. Who cares if they they were a "hot mess", or if their qb just got back from injury. Everybody on here wants to downplay every Cardinals win with a "yeah, but".

I've never seen so many people complain about something good happening to the Cards. We played those two games with a backup qb. So we should forfeit those two games, even though one of the teams was playing their starting qb? I think not.
It seems like about half the posts on here are dropping the Cards for the play in the first half, but they still won the game.
we also played that niner game without 4 offensive starters...covid if I recall.... we were every bit as beat up as SF at the time but McCoy played a crisp game.
 

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