HoF inductees

[AZCB34]

Rivera (unanimous)
Martinez
Halladay
Mussina

 

[GatorAZ]

Good news Bonds is rising.

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[Ronin]

Three more years left on the Ballot for Bonds.

 

[Willie D]

These four sound about right. Good to see Halladay in on the first try. Crime Dog is off the ballot now. But he's still got all those Tom Emanski commercials to fall back on.

Full vote totals:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2019.shtml#all_hof_BBWAA

 

[Dback Jon]

Good selections

 

[GatorAZ]

Three more years left on the Ballot for Bonds.

I think there are some that are making him sweat until the last year to make a point.

 

[AZ Native]

Good news for Barrysteroid, no thank you.

 

[Ronin]

Bob Nightengale

✔ @BNightengale



Hall of Fame officials are anticipating the largest crowd in HOF induction weekend history, surpassing the 82,000 fans that attended the Tony Gwynn/Cal Ripken induction ceremony in 2007.



22
10:31 AM - Jan 23, 2019

 

[unseenaz]

Good news for Barrysteroid, no thank you.

he's one of the greatest of all time, you can't start drawing lines in the sand on it when all of the historical greats in the hall are linked to performance enhancers in one way or another. he needs to be in the HOF.

 

[BC867]

he's one of the greatest of all time, you can't start drawing lines in the sand on it when all of the historical greats in the hall are linked to performance enhancers in one way or another. he needs to be in the HOF.

"...all of the historical greats in the hall are linked to performance enhancers in one way or another..."?

Yeah, Babe Ruth came to the ballpark after drinking booze all night. And the group of Billy Martin, Whitey Ford and Mickey Mantle were into drinking heavily. Getting looped = performance enhancers?

Please reference where you got the information that all historical greats are linked to (whatever that means) performance enhancers. Let's take Willie Mays and Randy Johnson, for example. Or do you consider taking an aspirin for a headache to be a performance enhancer? Any medication for pain relief is a reaction to a condition, not an enhancer.

Now if you said that league and team executives were aware of enhancers by some and did nothing about it, that would be true. But it doesn't absolve the players who would have had lesser lifetime stats (upon which HOF selection is generally based). It is a disservice to those players throughout history who did not dope up. It is not just about Barry Bonds. Or the other cheaters.

Ask yourself this. If a player is caught cheating at a poker or golf match, would he be rewarded (let alone honored) for it? If you were their opponent, would you honor them?

 

[unseenaz]

"...all of the historical greats in the hall are linked to performance enhancers in one way or another..."?

Yeah, Babe Ruth came to the ballpark after drinking booze all night. And the group of Billy Martin, Whitey Ford and Mickey Mantle were into drinking heavily. Getting looped = performance enhancers?

Please reference where you got the information that all historical greats are linked to (whatever that means) performance enhancers. Let's take Willie Mays and Randy Johnson, for example. Or do you consider taking an aspirin for a headache to be a performance enhancer? Any medication for pain relief is a reaction to a condition, not an enhancer.

Now if you said that league and team executives were aware of enhancers by some and did nothing about it, that would be true. But it doesn't absolve the players who would have had lesser lifetime stats (upon which HOF selection is generally based). It is a disservice to those players throughout history who did not dope up. It is not just about Barry Bonds. Or the other cheaters.

Ask yourself this. If a player is caught cheating at a poker or golf match, would he be rewarded (let alone honored) for it? If you were their opponent, would you honor them?

Mike Piazza Jeff Bagwell, and Pudge were all PED users, the commissioner who oversaw the PED era is in. Bud Selig turned a blind eye to it during the 90s/2000s and saw huge profits, yet he's in the HOF?

Gaylord Perry wrote a book about cheating his whole career, Aaron and Mays both admitted using PED's. PED testing in the MLB didn't start until 2003..

who wasn't using greenies in the 70s and 80s? HOF pitcher Mike Schmidt wrote a tell all book where he covered how wide spread they were. Amphetamines "have been around the game forever," the Hall of Famer Mike Schmidt writes in his new book, "Clearing the Bases," which HarperCollins will publish next month. "In my day," he says, they "were widely available in major-league clubhouses. The pills energized players, helped get them through a tough series of games, a 162-game schedule played in 182 days. The only thing a player had to do was make sure he didn't take a pill prematurely. Players like to tell of teammates who took pills before games, then had the games rained out and spent the rest of the night climbing walls."

Babe Ruth used illegal bats and apparently tried injecting sheep testosterone. Mickey Mantle missed time in 1961 due to an infection from being injected with steroids and speed.

the point is, there are loads of proven and admitted cheaters in the mlb HOF.

The HOF is nothing more than a political institution, at this point - a collection of the best players doesn't mean anything without the best player.

Anyways, i don't need to talk this side of it anyways, he's getting in, eventually. the writers are just making him wait until his final year of eligibility (I think 3 more years) There were 8 new voters this year, and 7 of them voted for Bonds.

 

[GatorAZ]

"...all of the historical greats in the hall are linked to performance enhancers in one way or another..."?

Yeah, Babe Ruth came to the ballpark after drinking booze all night. And the group of Billy Martin, Whitey Ford and Mickey Mantle were into drinking heavily. Getting looped = performance enhancers?

Please reference where you got the information that all historical greats are linked to (whatever that means) performance enhancers. Let's take Willie Mays and Randy Johnson, for example. Or do you consider taking an aspirin for a headache to be a performance enhancer? Any medication for pain relief is a reaction to a condition, not an enhancer.

Now if you said that league and team executives were aware of enhancers by some and did nothing about it, that would be true. But it doesn't absolve the players who would have had lesser lifetime stats (upon which HOF selection is generally based). It is a disservice to those players throughout history who did not dope up. It is not just about Barry Bonds. Or the other cheaters.

Ask yourself this. If a player is caught cheating at a poker or golf match, would he be rewarded (let alone honored) for it? If you were their opponent, would you honor them?

Former baseball player Jim Bouton (Appendix A)

detailed the usage of greenies for a multitude of causes or symptoms. Whether it be a hangover from a night of partying, general fatigue or a player in need of a boost of home run swatting energy-- greenies were the friends of ballplayers everywhere (Emen, 2007).

“In 1964, aided by uppers, (Bouton) led the American League in starts (Chafets, 2009, pg. 178).” Bouton recalls in his book, Ball Four, that once, a player “received a supply of five hundred amphetamine pills (Chafets, 2009, pg. 178).” He admitted that “just about the whole Baltimore (Orioles) team takes them. Most of the (Detroit) Tigers. Most of the guys on (his team) (Chafets, 2009, pg. 178),” too.

Amphetamines (like steroids) were illegal without prescription in American society but were just a part of the baseball culture. Best I can tell, amphetamines are performance enhancing drugs that, many people feel, sharpen focus and increase energy levels and help an athlete overcome exhaustion (Posnanski, 2010).

The great Willie Mays admitted,

I would go to the doctor and would say to the doctor, ‘Hey, I need something to keep me going. Could you give me some sort of vitamin?’ I don’t know what they put in there, and I never asked a question about anything (Posnanski, 2010).

Just about every player used amphetamines. “Pete Rose did. Hank Aaron admitted trying it (Posnanski, 2010).”

While amphetamines were not banned from baseball until 1971 (Chafets, 2009, pg. 178), former Royals outfielder Brian McRae (Appendix A) recalled how amphetamines have become a part of the clubhouse scene. “There were always two pots of coffee brewing in the clubhouse -- one conventional and the other laced with stimulants (Crasnick, 2006).”

https://sites.google.com/site/brettbushthesis/chapter-4/amphetamine-steroid-era/amphetamines

 

[Willie D]

Benzos have a new name from the days of Mike Schmidt and Jim Bunning. They're called "energy drinks." Sugar, sugar, toss in a lot of caffeine, and then some high fructose corn syrup. Maybe the concern about MLB retirees should be type 2 diabetes.

Anyway, if you leave out all the cheaters and scumbags from the baseball HOF, then kick out:

John Mc Graw
Ty Cobb
Enos Slaughter
Gaylord Perry

..the list goes on. I get the sense Barroid just doesn't care any longer. Contrast that to Pete Rose, I still think it will take a vote of the Veteran's Committee, and that might require the passing of a generation of folks at that table.

 

[unseenaz]

Benzos have a new name from the days of Mike Schmidt and Jim Bunning. They're called "energy drinks." Sugar, sugar, toss in a lot of caffeine, and then some high fructose corn syrup. Maybe the concern about MLB retirees should be type 2 diabetes.

Anyway, if you leave out all the cheaters and scumbags from the baseball HOF, then kick out:

John Mc Graw
Ty Cobb
Enos Slaughter
Gaylord Perry

..the list goes on. I get the sense Barroid just doesn't care any longer. Contrast that to Pete Rose, I still think it will take a vote of the Veteran's Committee, and that might require the passing of a generation of folks at that table.

Barry bonds hated the media and the media hated him (never actually failed a drug test). David Ortiz was a darling to the media and they loved him, he also failed a drug test in 2003, so let’s see what happens when Ortiz debuts on the ballot

 

[BC867]

Former baseball player Jim Bouton (Appendix A)

detailed the usage of greenies for a multitude of causes or symptoms. Whether it be a hangover from a night of partying, general fatigue or a player in need of a boost of home run swatting energy-- greenies were the friends of ballplayers everywhere (Emen, 2007).

“In 1964, aided by uppers, (Bouton) led the American League in starts (Chafets, 2009, pg. 178).” Bouton recalls in his book, Ball Four, that once, a player “received a supply of five hundred amphetamine pills (Chafets, 2009, pg. 178).” He admitted that “just about the whole Baltimore (Orioles) team takes them. Most of the (Detroit) Tigers. Most of the guys on (his team) (Chafets, 2009, pg. 178),” too.

Amphetamines (like steroids) were illegal without prescription in American society but were just a part of the baseball culture. Best I can tell, amphetamines are performance enhancing drugs that, many people feel, sharpen focus and increase energy levels and help an athlete overcome exhaustion (Posnanski, 2010).

The great Willie Mays admitted,

I would go to the doctor and would say to the doctor, ‘Hey, I need something to keep me going. Could you give me some sort of vitamin?’ I don’t know what they put in there, and I never asked a question about anything (Posnanski, 2010).

Just about every player used amphetamines. “Pete Rose did. Hank Aaron admitted trying it (Posnanski, 2010).”

While amphetamines were not banned from baseball until 1971 (Chafets, 2009, pg. 178), former Royals outfielder Brian McRae (Appendix A) recalled how amphetamines have become a part of the clubhouse scene. “There were always two pots of coffee brewing in the clubhouse -- one conventional and the other laced with stimulants (Crasnick, 2006).”

https://sites.google.com/site/brettbushthesis/chapter-4/amphetamine-steroid-era/amphetamines

'Looks like you're right. Thanks for the details. OK, I'll accept the dopers going into the HOF.

As far as Rose, I hope he never gets in, not only because he became a Manager taking advantage of inside info to place bets and make money, but because history says that he would gloat about getting in and make a further fool of himself.

Just as he did when he made that stupid "Not allowed in the hall" commercial to further capitalize on it. I don't expect that Bonds, McGuire, etc., would gloat about being selected.

 

[Willie D]

Barry bonds hated the media and the media hated him (never actually failed a drug test). David Ortiz was a darling to the media and they loved him, he also failed a drug test in 2003, so let’s see what happens when Ortiz debuts on the ballot

I mean t Jim Bouton, not Jim Bunning...sorry about that.

Well, McGwire didn't test positive either. But if you compare his frame in Oakland vs. St. Louis, it's pretty obvious. Ditto with Barry in S.F. vs. Pittsburgh. His career in Pittsburgh alone was HOF worthy. But then came all the BALCO allegations and court cases are going to have an impact on his chances. I do think he'll get in, but not by the BBWAA. As you mentioned, the media hated him. As for Big Papi, I agree his positive test should be a factor (somewhat). I doubt he'll get in on the first ballot, or even the 4th or 5th. Ditto with A-Roid.

 

[Ronin]

“Pudge” Rodriguez was an alleged PED user and he got in to the hall of fame.

Yet suspicions of Rodriguez’s PED use (“Only God knows,’’ Rodriguez has said to the allegations), were largely ignored by the voters. Rodriguez, only the eighth Latin American player to reach the Hall of Fame, barely was elected with 76% of the ballots — receiving only four more votes than required — but still joined his hero, Bench, as the only catcher to be elected on the first ballot.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...jeff-bagwell-tim-raines-steroid-era/96742034/