Heupel Update

Harry

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I got an email asking if after Saturday’s loss, I had soured on Heupel coaching the Cards. Before I answer that I need to revisit why I nominated him. As far as I can determine he is the only major coach that does not require his QB to use progressions. Consider the Cards’ predicament, they have a huge investment in Murray. It’s so big I’m not sure Murray could be traded even if the Cards chose to do so. Is any team willing to pay that kind of money for that radical a concept of how one plays QB?

So assuming the Cards are stuck with Murray the Cards have two options. Try tough love and demand Murray changes the way he plays. For my money, that’s a waste of time. His money is guaranteed and frankly I don’t think he cares what the Cards want. I don’t think any form of persuasion will motivate him to play to play differently.

So the only other option I see is Heupel. Murray has the arm to execute his offense. Had he been the Tennessee QB Saturday, I think they hit at least 2 of those breakout receivers and that could have radically changed to result. Hooker just didn’t have the arm for the deep throws or he lacked the composure for the moment. Additionally Murray could actually be motivated to prove he could win essentially playing his way. Murray would be starting with a clean slate and that might be enough to change everything. Murray’s running skills fit nicely into that offense. Finally the Cards, especially if they can keep Anderson (Dortch might do), have the right receivers to give it a chance to work.

If I were the Cards, I’d take the loss and try to move Murray. There often seems to be a coach who believes he can fix anything. If they are unsuccessful, I’d hire Heupel and try to salvage something. Aside from the offense I detailed, he’s been very creative in the red zone, where that offensive scheme is not used in the same way. So there’s a reasonable chance he might be successful even if Murray flops.
 

Chopper0080

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I think you have to give up the idea of making Murray happy with the style of offense. The HC needs to transition to a NFL style of offense (which demands a healthy share of under C) and force Kyler to adjust or demand a trade.

At this rate, a guy like Demeco Ryans would not be terrible. I don't believe Kyler has what it takes to be more than Kirk Cousins/Alex Smith so running the ball and playing good defense is likely our best path to mediocrity.
 

DaHilg

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I think you have to give up the idea of making Murray happy with the style of offense. The HC needs to transition to a NFL style of offense (which demands a healthy share of under C) and force Kyler to adjust or demand a trade.

At this rate, a guy like Demeco Ryans would not be terrible. I don't believe Kyler has what it takes to be more than Kirk Cousins/Alex Smith so running the ball and playing good defense is likely our best path to mediocrity.
Has there been any interview or article where Kyler has said he is adverse to being under center? I’ve only seen it as speculative.. seriously asking
 

reebokalone2001

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Has there been any interview or article where Kyler has said he is adverse to being under center? I’ve only seen it as speculative.. seriously asking
Yes, Kliff stated that in his press conference in response to the question of why he did not have Kyler under the center.
 

DaHilg

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Maybe but prefers still shows that it’s likely a Kyler thing.
I’m pretty sure we are running Kliffys offense not Kylers.. it’s the only offense that Kliffy has tan and he’s the one scheming as well as calling the plays… but let’s blame Kyler since he’s the HC and OC.
 

cardpa

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Kliff on shotgun

Here’s what he said when asked about the advantages and disadvantages of a quarterback operating out of the shotgun:

"I’ve never seen disadvantages. Some people say there are. I don’t. … Some other people have theories about it, but I think you can do everything just as well from shotgun as you can under center."

Kingsbury then went on to describe why the shotgun formation helps a quarterback:

“It just eliminates having to get away from the center. Those are big guys pushing back in your face right away. So, you’re seeing a clearer picture sooner. Whereas when you’re under center, it takes a while to see the field and see that clear picture. To me, you’re able to see it clearer pre-snap and post-snap."
 

DaHilg

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Kliff on shotgun

Here’s what he said when asked about the advantages and disadvantages of a quarterback operating out of the shotgun:

"I’ve never seen disadvantages. Some people say there are. I don’t. … Some other people have theories about it, but I think you can do everything just as well from shotgun as you can under center."

Kingsbury then went on to describe why the shotgun formation helps a quarterback:

“It just eliminates having to get away from the center. Those are big guys pushing back in your face right away. So, you’re seeing a clearer picture sooner. Whereas when you’re under center, it takes a while to see the field and see that clear picture. To me, you’re able to see it clearer pre-snap and post-snap."
Exactly it’s what Kliff says and he’s an idiot for saying it.. works in college not nfl for so many reasons
 

Jetstream Green

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Maybe but prefers still shows that it’s likely a Kyler thing.
Actually, Kyler and Kliff do not seem on the same wavelength and this year especially they both seem to be alluding to two different things. I believe one presser, Kyler responded he will do whatever and it does not matter to him if he is under center or not as long as they win, and prior they had asked the same question of Kliff and he vaguely acts like it's some unified preference... Kyler doesn't want to say the wrong thing, by wrong I mean not being in accord with his coach in a presser, and seems uncomfortable as all get out with those questions
 

DaHilg

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Actually, Kyler and Kliff do not seem on the same wavelength and this year especially they both seem to be alluding to two different things. I believe one presser, Kyler responded he will do whatever and it does not matter to him if he is under center or not as long as they win, and prior they had asked the same question of Kliff and he vaguely acts like it's some unified preference... Kyler doesn't want to say the wrong thing, by wrong I mean not being in accord with his coach in a presser, and seems uncomfortable as all get out with those questions
Just like when asked about the decision to go for it on 4th a few timezz “I go by whatever coach calls”
 

Jetstream Green

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Just like when asked about the decision to go for it on 4th a few timezz “I go by whatever coach calls”
And the same when asked about running and he states he would rather run more while Kliff had a more cautious response which implied he does not want him running as much
 

LA Redbird

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The insinuation that Kyler has composure is not borne out by the facts that he took two consecutive sacks last week to end the game and took two consecutive sacks this week to kill our last chance at a final drive. His awareness is horrible. Can't be composed if you're not aware.
 

Jetstream Green

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The insinuation that Kyler has composure is not borne out by the facts that he took two consecutive sacks last week to end the game and took two consecutive sacks this week to kill our last chance at a final drive. His awareness is horrible. Can't be composed if you're not aware.
He has awareness, you cannot avoid sacks as he does without having a feel for pressure. Chris Simms though was the epitome of having no awareness whatsoever, dude would not be able to hear a locomotive coming down the tracks. Kyler simply does not trust his interior OL, and there are a few reasons why with there performances which usually includes a few jailbreaks right at him during the game. Granted, he still has to suck it up and be strong in the pocket which he often does not adhere to but at his position you cannot become shell shocked even if the threat is real
 

wit3card

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I’m pretty sure we are running Kliffys offense not Kylers.. it’s the only offense that Kliffy has tan and he’s the one scheming as well as calling the plays… but let’s blame Kyler since he’s the HC and OC.
the same goes for the open recievers that Kyler or can't see or can't throw to, is that on Kliff? No this two don't work together. I don't know who is sabotaging who or who is holding back whom, but at the end of the day, the results scream you have to do something.

I would like to get a fresh reset, new GM, maybe some good Picks for Kyler and bulid a team like we need it in this division, from the trenches on O and D. And as soon as your O-line and D-line works, get your QBoF. Not the other way around.
 

daves

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I would like to get a fresh reset, new GM, maybe some good Picks for Kyler
People really need to stop imagining that Murray could be traded. The dead cap hit would be $96.5M and cap "savings" -$80.5M after this season. After 2023, the dead money would be $81.5M. Maybe after 2024, with "only" $33.2M in dead money, he could be moved.

...dave
 

wit3card

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People really need to stop imagining that Murray could be traded. The dead cap hit would be $96.5M and cap "savings" -$80.5M after this season. After 2023, the dead money would be $81.5M. Maybe after 2024, with "only" $33.2M in dead money, he could be moved.

...dave
Dave I know that we can't trade him with that bad contract the next two years ... the contract is the worst given this year ...
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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KK could get some space for Kyler to see the field better if he would just put him under center more, play fake & rollout. Every time he's under center he hands the ball off, one time Sunday he didn't from under center though, he play faked & threw the ball. It was incomplete but it's a simple NFL play that defenses know KK doesn't call & could get fooled if he'd just use it some more. I want an NFL coach with a pro style offense that does the basic stuff & gets creative with it, tired of college coaches that think their style will be some new innovative way that will light the NFL defenses up.
 

cardpa

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I for one do not want a college coach, I want a professional coach. I want a guy with experience and then if Kyler shows he cannot adapt to a pro offense, which is what is required to be a pro, then you trade him
Problem is, if Murray can't run a pro offense, his trade value goes down the toilet. You probably release him and he goes seeking out a baseball contract.
 

az jam

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Murray is not going to be traded. Cards will not hire a college coach again.. KK will be fired the only questions really is when?
 

cardpa

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Murray is not going to be traded. Cards will not hire a college coach again.. KK will be fired the only questions really is when?
I truly believe the when will be no sooner than after the 2023 season. The 2022 season will be blamed on injuries to the Oline and not having Hopkins and Brown on the field at the same time for most of the year as well as Connor being off and on with injuries and injuries in the secondary. Besides Bidwill will want some minimum return on the Kingsbury contract

They will paint the 2023 season as having an entire year with Brown and Hopkins as well as an improved Oline (even though we have no idea how that will happen when the only linemen under contract will be Hudson, who will probably retire, Jones, who can't seem to play RT Humphries, Smith and Hayes, who will still be a rookie not having played in 2022) and a healthy secondary as well as improvements from the rookies of 2022 as reasons to believe a resurgence will happen. Of course they will ignore the high possibility that Murphy and Allen will move on to other teams and no plan to replace them, that Ertz and Watt will be a year older as well as Golden.
 
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