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Discussion in 'Arizona Cardinals' started by jf-08, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. Stout

    Stout Hold onto the ball, Murray!

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    I agree, about an ILBer. But nobody knew who would be great out of the draft; it's all a crap shoot.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
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  2. Cbus cardsfan

    Cbus cardsfan Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion

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    Tristan Wirfs was also playing RT. Let's not confuse that with the premium placed on LT and he'd be playing RT for the Cards. Whether it works out or not, Simmons was the right choice.
     
  3. PACardsFan

    PACardsFan Registered User

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    Prior to trading for Hop, I was a fan of drafting Lamb. When Simmons fell to us, there was no doubt he was the right pick. But, it still annoys me that we barely used him until midway through the season. And even then, not as much as we should have.
     
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  4. PACardsFan

    PACardsFan Registered User

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    Can you imagine how bad our offense would have been had we not traded for Hop, AND not drafted Lamb, Jeudy, or Ruggs?
     
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  5. DVontel

    DVontel Registered

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    Elite pass-rushers rotate on both sides so downplaying the RT’s value in 2021 is nonsense.

    Elaborate on how it was the right choice. We needed OL more than ILB. OT, whether it’s LT or RT, still holds more value than a ILB. Wirfs was always BPA over Simmons.


    So yea, I’m eager to hear how it was “the right choice”.
     
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  6. SoonerLou

    SoonerLou Registered

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    I think Simmons can be a great player. Whether that happens with Vance or with the Cardinals is up in the air.

    Wirfs would have immediately helped Kyler, Kliff and the RBs. I truly believe we make the playoffs this past year because he was playing at a very high level.
     
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  7. GatorAZ

    GatorAZ feed hopkins

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    If Keim hits on a 1st rounder at any position short of punter or kicker I’ll take it right now.
     
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  8. Ouchie-Z-Clown

    Ouchie-Z-Clown I'm better than Mulli!

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    Most of those guys are not starter material. They’re legit nfl backs but not starters.
     
  9. Cbus cardsfan

    Cbus cardsfan Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion

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    LT protects the blindside. That’s where the premium comes into play. I didn’t say RT wasn’t important. I said it doesn’t have the premium attached to it and why the “lesser” tackles play RT. Wirfs will eventually be a LT but he wouldn’t be for the Cardinals unless DJ gets hurt.
    Simmons was the right choice because he was universally the higher rated player, had a higher draft grade and plays a position of need.

    Wirfs was the 4th OT off the boatd. If the Cards went OT, Wills JR. would’ve likely been the pick anyway.
     
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  10. football karma

    football karma Happy in the pretense of knowledge

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    there are DRAFT MISTAKES

    and then there are "it could have been better"

    the Giants taking Thomas over Wirfs looks like a DRAFT MISTAKE

    the Eagles taking Reagor over Jefferson is a DRAFT MISTAKE

    unless Simmons gets no better, that is looking like a "it could have been better" -- and if he really takes the next jump, it might not even be that. This is really true if Josh Jones becomes a competent right tackle
     
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  11. DVontel

    DVontel Registered

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    Did I say that you said that RT wasn’t important? No, I said that you’re downplaying the value of it. Though it might not have the same value the LT does, it still holds significant value due to various pass-rushers lining up on both sides.


    Wirfs will eventually be a LT based off what? He played at RT a majority of his career at Iowa. Was a stud there. That followed to the NFL & remained a stud.

    Our need at RT outweighed the need at ILB. The thing is, we don’t even know if he’s actually better at ILB or S! That’s scary. Simmons wasn’t rated much higher than Wirfs, if at all. Keim just took the bait like an idiot over a player we don’t even know where his true position is at. I actually wonder how hard Simmons would’ve fell if Keim didn’t reach for him.



    Willis, Wirfs, whoever, would’ve been a better choice than Simmons. Doesn’t matter if Wirfs was the 4th, 2nd, 7th OT off the board, he still would’ve been a better choice than a position less player.


    Keim can make up for his mistake & draft Alijah Vera-Tucker if he falls to him, but he’ll probably do the typical Keim thing & draft Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah instead.
     
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  12. WhyAlwaysMe

    WhyAlwaysMe Banned

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    RTs’ value is obviously less than LTs.

    Math:
    1. AAV of top5 LT is 19.55mm
    2. AAV of top5 RT is 15.15mm


    Also, not sure how RT is so clearly a more valuable position than LB, when LB has a HIGHER AAV (15.45) than RT. Also, all the LB in the top5 play in the middle, no OLB/EDGE type guys.
     
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  13. DVontel

    DVontel Registered

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    C’mon man, don’t sugarcoat it. It was a draft mistake. Wirfs should’ve been the clear-cut choice from day one.
     
  14. WhyAlwaysMe

    WhyAlwaysMe Banned

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    Also, Simmons has traits that could allow for him to be both
    (1) really good at rushing the passer
    (2) really good at coverage

    his potential scheme diversity makes him more than a traditional LB.
     
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  15. WhyAlwaysMe

    WhyAlwaysMe Banned

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    It’s also extremely foolish to look at Guy 1 in a particular system, with particular talent around him, and say that because he has higher PFF grades or whatever than Guy 2 that it was a clear error to draft Guy 2. Especially in their first years in said system. Plenty of all pros weren’t great in their first year.
     

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