Fine, I'm fine with Francis Mauigoa

[Stout]

To be clear, this is what I want: Mendoza, Bailey, or Downs. One of them will fall to us. I'd not be angry if we drafted Love, which is crazy for me, but those are the 4 top talents IMO in this draft. I don't see Mauigoa as a top 10 OT. He may or may not be the top OT prospect in the draft. Why overdraft an OT at #3 when you can take advantage of the deep OT pool later? That's where I stand.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Now you're just trolling, bro. You know it, I know it. Keep representing your opinions as facts and I'll keep pew pew pewing them down.

No I'm pointing out the absurdity of best player available. Put down the Mel Kiper and watch what actual NFL teams do.

 

[Stout]

See, I don't really think Love is a blue chip player, and if you look at the ratings from scouting services, the scouting services don't either.

I like him, but he doesn't really touch the elite stratosphere of RBs. He's not Saquon or Bijan Robinson, and just like Mauigoa, if you take him at #3 you're overdrafting him as well.

With talent poor drafts like this, I think you just take the player your team needs the most. While the Cardinals RB room does lack some pop, they should be a steady enough group. The same can't be said about RT, where Wilkerson is the only guy.

See, I can respect this post. You're clearly stating your opinion. Earlier in this thread you started pontificating as if your opinion were fact. That's where the trouble began. We disagree on a fundamental level, but that's cool. At least you aren't advocating for Simpson at #3

 

[Stout]

Lions didn't fail due to their OL

So you're saying the receiver was more important than the OT? Ah

 

[Krangodnzr]

To be clear, this is what I want: Mendoza, Bailey, or Downs. One of them will fall to us. I'd not be angry if we drafted Love, which is crazy for me, but those are the 4 top talents IMO in this draft. I don't see Mauigoa as a top 10 OT. He may or may not be the top OT prospect in the draft. Why overdraft an OT at #3 when you can take advantage of the deep OT pool later? That's where I stand.

I look at the pool and when I run through mock drafts, that deep pool is pretty damn slim when you get to the second round.

There are draftniks that thing 6 or more OTs could go in round one.

 

[Stout]

No I'm pointing out the absurdity of best player available. Put down the Mel Kiper and watch what actual NFL teams do.

We're discussing what we want the team to do, not what teams actually do. I am 100 percent certain that if we don't trade down Monti's going with Mauigoa. I just don't happen to agree with that pick.

 

[Krangodnzr]

So you're saying the receiver was more important than the OT? Ah

You must be registered for see images attach

They have a receiver just as good as Chase...receiver wasn't the issue either.

I believe in building the OL first and foremost then get your QB and playmakers. That's what you do in an ideal world and the Cardinals have a chance to build the OL before they get the QB.

 

[Stout]

You must be registered for see images attach

They have a receiver just as good as Chase...receiver wasn't the issue either.

I believe in building the OL first and foremost then get your QB and playmakers. That's what you do in an ideal world and the Cardinals have a chance to build the OL before they get the QB.

St. Brown doesn't enter the equation. We're comparing drafting either the OL or the skill position player high in the 1st.

At any rate, in a normal build (yay, we're rebuilding again!), I would fully agree with you. When your QBs are *gestures at Cards QB room* then traditional thinking doesn't always apply. This gives us the opportunity to take, IMO, the superior talent.

 

[Krangodnzr]

St. Brown doesn't enter the equation. We're comparing drafting either the OL or the skill position player high in the 1st.

At any rate, in a normal build (yay, we're rebuilding again!), I would fully agree with you. When your QBs are *gestures at Cards QB room* then traditional thinking doesn't always apply. This gives us the opportunity to take, IMO, the superior talent.

I think if you asked every GM in NFL if it was better to have an established OL for their young QB, or a weaker OL with a good RB, I think almost unanimously they would pick the OL.

Either way, I hope the Cardinals walk away with a really good player. There are three players I'd like (Bailey, then Mauigoa, then Love), a few I could learn to live with (Down and Styles), and then Arvel Reese, who I will be extremely annoyed if they take him.

I agree with you on the magic beans because I don't trust Monti's judgement anymore. If we had a Les Snead, I would probably advocate trading down.

 

[Chopper0080]

To be clear, this is what I want: Mendoza, Bailey, or Downs. One of them will fall to us. I'd not be angry if we drafted Love, which is crazy for me, but those are the 4 top talents IMO in this draft. I don't see Mauigoa as a top 10 OT. He may or may not be the top OT prospect in the draft. Why overdraft an OT at #3 when you can take advantage of the deep OT pool later? That's where I stand.

lol.

I might like Downs at 3 less than Simpson at 3.

 

[Totally_Red]

I'm fine with Mauigoa or Bailey. One argument for Mauigoa is that he is a day one full time right tackle. Bailey would be a day one pass rush specialist who had a serious deficiency in run defense at the college level.

 

[Solar7]

I look at it like this. Let's say he ends up just being a really good ILB. Would that would be worth the #3 pick? Nope, that's like taking a RB at #3.

My argument is that if Love or Reese were going to be All Pros or recurring Pro Bowlers that are impact players, and Mauigoa becomes just... a run-of-the-mill starter, we'll have made the wrong decision.

I think Love can be that, and I don't really think Reese will be that, but for the sake of argument... I'm just saying in a poor draft, positional value goes out the window for me, on a team that desperately needs elite players. If Monti takes a guy who is just an average starter and fails to draft yet another impact player, he'll be looking for a new job soon.

And we'll have egg on our face if we went with process over results again.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

When it comes to the Cards drafting they should look at highest floor because they're likely getting 2nd tier coaching.
To me, the highest floor is Downs. Hes going to be good no matter what.

The highest ceiling is Bailey, Love or maybe Reese.

 

[Krangodnzr]

My argument is that if Love or Reese were going to be All Pros or recurring Pro Bowlers that are impact players, and Mauigoa becomes just... a run-of-the-mill starter, we'll have made the wrong decision.

But what happens when Mauigoa has an 11-year career, makes 4 Pro Bowls, while Love has a really good first five years and then tapers off?

Reese, I won't even make a what-if, because the Cardinals would be crazy to draft him after the team's history with tweeners.

My point is that you can always look back and feel this way. If you look at bust rates for first round picks, OL tend to bust less as well, so if you want a really good player who is less likely to bust, go with Mauigoa.

 

[Krangodnzr]

When it comes to the Cards drafting they should look at highest floor because they're likely getting 2nd tier coaching.
To me, the highest floor is Downs. Hes going to be good no matter what.

The highest ceiling is Bailey, Love or maybe Reese.

I hear Jack Stackhouse (P, Syracuse) has the highest floor of any prospect in this draft. He's a blue chip player.

I just can't help myself today.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I hear Jack Stackhouse (P, Syracuse) has the highest floor of any prospect in this draft. He's a blue chip player.

I just can't help myself today.

No idea what you're talking about. He doesn't have the highest floor. Don't be stupid.

I'm not going to hate on Mauigoa as a pick. I can see their reasoning. I just don't think it's the best pick at 3.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

But what happens when Mauigoa has an 11-year career, makes 4 Pro Bowls, while Love has a really good first five years and then tapers off?

Reese, I won't even make a what-if, because the Cardinals would be crazy to draft him after the team's history with tweeners.

My point is that you can always look back and feel this way. If you look at bust rates for first round picks, OL tend to bust less as well, so if you want a really good player who is less likely to bust, go with Mauigoa.

OL is likely the safest position to draft to avoid bust potential. But, to me, you're not drafting a guy to bust in the top 5. It definitely happens but you don't draft "safe" in top 5-10. You draft on potential to be great

 

[Krangodnzr]

No idea what you're talking about. He doesn't have the highest floor. Don't be stupid.

I'm not going to hate on Mauigoa as a pick. I can see their reasoning. I just don't think it's the best pick at 3.

I'm joking

 

[Finito]

Similar people said the same thing about Tristan Wirfs.

Wirfs is on record as having one of the greatest combines of all time he’s a generational athlete a freak among freaks.

Is Mauigoa like that? Nope.

 

[Harry]

Buddy that's how YOU sound. I'm open to MULTIPLE players, to include Love.

No matter what anyone says, you won't like Mauigoa, Im starting to understand that. I was against Love, but had an open mind and now would be fine, with the caveat that it's a poor use for resources.

And I'm embarrassing myself? What a low blow. I'm not attacking you, I don't know why you can't be civil.

One of the reasons I favor trading down is there are a large number of nearly equally valued players and the Cards have an assortment of needs

I am open to debating about Mauigoa as a prospect, but I feel the argument that has been presented against him being a top prospect or the top OL prospect in this draft as been the equivalent of "nuh uh". If I am missing or missed more substantiative arguments, I would love to hear them.

His size and resume are that of a top OT.

Most draft experts back my feelings on him being the best OL from what I have seen. Maybe I missed somebody.

I have addressed why some other teams in the top 10 would not be interested in him.

In terms of over draft grades historically, using NFL.com as a reference, his grades are similar to other OTs who were drafted in the top 10.

I get not wanting to take a RT at 3. 100%. But just in terms of a prospect, I don't really understand where people are getting that he isn't a top guy.

I agree he sticks at RT.

 

[Solar7]

But what happens when Mauigoa has an 11-year career, makes 4 Pro Bowls, while Love has a really good first five years and then tapers off?

Reese, I won't even make a what-if, because the Cardinals would be crazy to draft him after the team's history with tweeners.

My point is that you can always look back and feel this way. If you look at bust rates for first round picks, OL tend to bust less as well, so if you want a really good player who is less likely to bust, go with Mauigoa.

Well, my point here is... I don't think he's going to reach those heights, and while it's not like I sat down and have watched every snap of his, the guy hasn't looked that dominant to me. I'm also wary when we're already talking about how a guy might have to kick in at guard and doesn't have the upside to ever be an LT.

Reading about the guy from better talent evaluators than I am just isn't impressive. NFL.com's prospect grade on him is "could be a good starter in two years." Another site when looking at his profile says "his ceiling could touch Pro Bowl levels with refinement." Those aren't glowing reviews. I don't see anyone standing on the table saying he's an elite, surefire prospect, in general.

I don't want "really good" here. I want great. And I know anything can happen, I've sure missed on prospects in the past, and stars slip through the cracks all the time. Mauigoa just screams "unspectacular" to me.

Whereas Love screams spectacular, even if that might be shorter success for us.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Whomever we pick, Uncle Rogers says

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images attach

But yeah I am fine if we are stuck at 3 and we take a lineman on either side. It's a bad draft.

 

[Stout]

lol.

I might like Downs at 3 less than Simpson at 3.

Just because he's a S right? Would you like, say, an Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu at 3? Not saying he'll work out that well, but those are some of his comps. Talent wise, he sits near the top of the draft.

 

[Stout]

But what happens when Mauigoa has an 11-year career, makes 4 Pro Bowls, while Love has a really good first five years and then tapers off?

Reese, I won't even make a what-if, because the Cardinals would be crazy to draft him after the team's history with tweeners.

My point is that you can always look back and feel this way. If you look at bust rates for first round picks, OL tend to bust less as well, so if you want a really good player who is less likely to bust, go with Mauigoa.

SMH there you go again with your definite assertions. I mean, you're giving my historic hyperbole a run for its money.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Well, my point here is... I don't think he's going to reach those heights, and while it's not like I sat down and have watched every snap of his, the guy hasn't looked that dominant to me. I'm also wary when we're already talking about how a guy might have to kick in at guard and doesn't have the upside to ever be an LT.

This point has been covered ad naseum by @Chopper0080 . You see this every year with tackles and it's very often the case that they are fine at tackle. I see that comment and essentially roll my eyes at it because it's wrong so often.

The same was said about Wirfs and other tackles in the past. And he doesn't have to play LT.

Reading about the guy from better talent evaluators than I am just isn't impressive. NFL.com's prospect grade on him is "could be a good starter in two years." Another site when looking at his profile says "his ceiling could touch Pro Bowl levels with refinement." Those aren't glowing reviews. I don't see anyone standing on the table saying he's an elite, surefire prospect, in general.

This is just...absurd.

I read the same comments every draft. You're nitpicking now.

No one in this draft is an elite surefire prospect, which is why you evaluators like Zierlein have exactly ONE Pro Bowl rated player in this draft. This draft stinks.

I don't want "really good" here. I want great. And I know anything can happen, I've sure missed on prospects in the past, and stars slip through the cracks all the time. Mauigoa just screams "unspectacular" to me.

Wish in one hand and....

There aren't any great players in this draft.

No RT screams spectacular. He screams "starts 17/17".

Whereas Love screams spectacular, even if that might be shorter success for us.

I just don't think he's going to necessarily be spectacular. I think he can be really good.