Evidence For No TD

[DeVille]

the ball can touch the ground as long as the receiver is in control and possession of the ball. I don't think there's any question Fitz had that ball.

I understand this... but, if it moves as it hits the ground, it's deemed incomplete. In all fairness, it was worth another replay to see if it moved.

see: Holmes' TD against the Ravens in the AFCC that was called back

 

[CardinalChris]

And if you don't agree that the Cardinals played sloppy and deserved most of those ticky-tack penalties you are being dishonest with themselves.

This is my post of the day!! We seemed to have left perspective on this whole thing. Arizona did not play thier best. A few things cleaned up and we would have won that game. Jimmy Johnson said you should never complain about bad calls. First they tend to even out in the long run. Second, human nature makes us prone to discount those calls that went our way, but gripe about the calls that went against us. My wife is a softball coach and always tells her players that they should never be in a position to where a Ref MAKES a difference. If they are perfect and the refs are not, then complain. How often do you think that happens?

The truth is Pittsburgh played a pretty flawless game. I can't think of many major mistakes they made. Despite that, they barely won on a MIRACLE pass with seconds to go. But, I can name at least 5 HUGE missed opportunities by the Cards. They played great and barely won, we played above average, left some opportunities on the field and barely lost. We were the better team, but played a less perfect game.

We are starting to sound like the fans we were making fun of up until yesterday. Remember us mocking the Eagles upset about the roof being closed? Now here we are trying to correct the slight and phantom when the TEAM didn't play to the best of thier ability. Thier first quarter was sloppy and stunk of nerves.

It sucks, but we lost that game. Not the refs, not the Steeler's reputation, not the NFL, not the replay officials, but the Arizona Cardinals. I don't want to discount mistakes by the officials, and no team "deserves" calls. But Shogun is right. the TEAM gave that game away, the refs did not take it away.

 

[conraddobler]

This is my post of the day!! We seemed to have left perspective on this whole thing. Arizona did not play thier best. A few things cleaned up and we would have won that game. Jimmy Johnson said you should never complain about bad calls. First they tend to even out in the long run. Second, human nature makes us prone to discount those calls that went our way, but gripe about the calls that went against us. My wife is a softball coach and always tells her players that they should never be in a position to where a Ref MAKES a difference. If they are perfect and the refs are not, then complain. How often do you think that happens?

The truth is Pittsburgh played a pretty flawless game. I can't think of many major mistakes they made. Despite that, they barely won on a MIRACLE pass with seconds to go. But, I can name at least 5 HUGE missed opportunities by the Cards. They played great and barely won, we played above average, left some opportunities on the field and barely lost. We were the better team, but played a less perfect game.

We are starting to sound like the fans we were making fun of up until yesterday. Remember us mocking the Eagles upset about the roof being closed? Now here we are trying to correct the slight and phantom when the TEAM didn't play to the best of thier ability. Thier first quarter was sloppy and stunk of nerves.

It sucks, but we lost that game. Not the refs, not the Steeler's reputation, not the NFL, not the replay officials, but the Arizona Cardinals. I don't want to discount mistakes by the officials, and no team "deserves" calls. But Shogun is right. the TEAM gave that game away, the refs did not take it away.

So there is in your mind never a case to ever question the motivations of the officials?

If you were to find out betting was skewing the results or refs were being paid that would make no difference to you?

I think it would and that means that at some point it's an issue, I'm not saying that's what's going on but to just dismiss this talk as if everything is ok and that people can't ever question it is wrong IMO.

I'd love to be a ref with you defending me especially if I was in fact crooked.

Certainly everyone of us is biased one way or another but I've watched other games this year where worse offenses by officials were done, always skewed towards one team.

I'm a fan, I have no impact on the team in my whining one way or another, if I was the coach what you said would be exactly how you should play it but I'm not the coach, none of us and so we should feel free to question it, it's different being the coach and being a fan.

 

[CardinalChris]

What I am saying is the refs did not "Cost" Arizona the game. I am fine with questioning it. I questioned the final TD until I saw some still shots today. The problem is too many people are BLAMING the refs for the loss. That's where I have to say soemthing. My opinion is that AZ played below thier abilities and THAT lost the game. Everyone is free to make that complaint. There were some borderline and poor calls, but I don't believe any COST AZ the game. We laughed the Eagle fans out of here for the Curtis no-call, but nobody is willing to look at the fact that this post is doing the SAME thing. It sucks, we lost, we are angry, but we are angry at the wrong parties involved. I think that was the point of Shogun's post, which I was agreeing with and trying to express as well.

 

[Shogun]

What I am saying is the refs did not "Cost" Arizona the game. I am fine with questioning it. I questioned the final TD until I saw some still shots today. The problem is too many people are BLAMING the refs for the loss. That's where I have to say soemthing. My opinion is that AZ played below thier abilities and THAT lost the game. Everyone is free to make that complaint. There were some borderline and poor calls, but I don't believe any COST AZ the game. We laughed the Eagle fans out of here for the Curtis no-call, but nobody is willing to look at the fact that this post is doing the SAME thing. It sucks, we lost, we are angry, but we are angry at the wrong parties involved. I think that was the point of Shogun's post, which I was agreeing with and trying to express as well.

Bingo.

You can question all you want, but don't put the result of the game on the ref's shoulder like that. Did the refs imagine the Gandy holds? Did Wilson NOT run over the holder? Not at all. Those were the Cardinals' mistakes, not the refs.

 

[Spielman]

I understand this... but, if it moves as it hits the ground, it's deemed incomplete. In all fairness, it was worth another replay to see if it moved.

see: Holmes' TD against the Ravens in the AFCC that was called back

Then the Steelers should have challenged. They didn't, in all likelihood because the booth guys told Tomlin he wouldn't win it.

 

[conraddobler]

What I am saying is the refs did not "Cost" Arizona the game. I am fine with questioning it. I questioned the final TD until I saw some still shots today. The problem is too many people are BLAMING the refs for the loss. That's where I have to say soemthing. My opinion is that AZ played below thier abilities and THAT lost the game. Everyone is free to make that complaint. There were some borderline and poor calls, but I don't believe any COST AZ the game. We laughed the Eagle fans out of here for the Curtis no-call, but nobody is willing to look at the fact that this post is doing the SAME thing. It sucks, we lost, we are angry, but we are angry at the wrong parties involved. I think that was the point of Shogun's post, which I was agreeing with and trying to express as well.

Ok I agree that it did not cost us the game, we also had multiple opportunities to win and we have ourselves to blame.

The refs were also biased against us and that's wrong too.

 

[Spielman]

Wow, that hurts to look at.. I thought it was a TD initially then was starting to wonder as no one had a still shot that was incontrovertible.. till now

Thing is, I don't see those pics as incontrovertible either. First one, left foot down, right foot touching and behind the left foot. If the right foot were down, you'd expect to see it actually appear farther down in the frame, since it's closer to the camera. It's up at that point.

The second one is close, but again, you can see the line on the left foot where it's clearly touching the ground. The right foot is, as we saw in the other photo, turned toe inward. Again, since it's closer to the camera, you'd expect it to be farther down in the frame than the left foot, or at least appear to be on the same level, were it actually touching the ground.

Thing is, it's so damn close it's impossible to get upset over. I expect officials to get the calls that are clear correct, and bang-bang plays, I just expect them to do their best.

 

[Russ Smith]

I understand this... but, if it moves as it hits the ground, it's deemed incomplete. In all fairness, it was worth another replay to see if it moved.

see: Holmes' TD against the Ravens in the AFCC that was called back

the problem is that was on Pittsburgh not on the refs. Your own coach chose not to challenge.

Not the same as the last play which BTW, I thought was a fumble by Warner.

 

[DeVille]

Russ - I agree; I was merely pointing out that calls are made and missed both ways. You mostly notice the ones that don't work to your advantage and agree with the the close ones that DO work to your advantage.

It's natural.

 

[BCEagle]

Not to stir the pot, but ... Fitzgerald's fade TD catch - to me it looked like the ball may have hit the ground when he came down with it.

 

[DeVille]

Not to stir the pot, but ... Fitzgerald's fade TD catch - to me it looked like the ball may have hit the ground when he came down with it.

it did - i have a photo of it on the ground, but, need like 14 more posts before i can post it - lol

 

[BCEagle]

it did - i have a photo of it on the ground, but, need like 14 more posts before i can post it - lol

If you PM me, with your permission I will post it. I am genuinely curious.

 

[EatSteel]

Not to stir the pot, but ... Fitzgerald's fade TD catch - to me it looked like the ball may have hit the ground when he came down with it.

That catch looked good all the way, IMO. Part of the ball can indeed touch the ground as long as the receiver demonstrates control and the ground doesn't aid in the reception.

 

[BCEagle]

That catch looked good all the way, IMO. Part of the ball can indeed touch the ground as long as the receiver demonstrates control and the ground doesn't aid in the reception.

OK, thanks.

 

[DeVille]

OK, thanks.

What he says is true, however,
1. it did touch the ground
2. we didn't get to see a replay angle where we could tell if it moved once it hit the ground.

Again, i refer back to the AFCC where holmes (agains the Ravens) catches with control, turns, takes 2 steps, dives to the goal line, the ball hits the ground and moves, thus making it incomplete. No exaggeration.

I'm not calling Fitz's catch incomplete - we were never given an angle to see if he maintained possession as it hit the ground. I am, however, asking why we weren't given that replay... ?

 

[DeVille]

(min of 15 posts to PM)... strange rules... you'll have to have to add http to the front of it

obviously, somebody's tivo.

lh4.ggpht.com/_Viuxap9dStA/SYZvXED1NUI/AAAAAAAAAW4/BMYg9l9wW_s/s640/IMG_0225.JPG

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Mr Boldin, look at the link, dude... a still can't show what happened THROUGHOUT the play. the link has a still of the toe CLEARLY down... no questions. the blogspot link... if you can't agree after that one, you've got some serious issues.

Dude, I posted the picture from a different angle (same time frame) and his toe clearly isnt down. I dont have the HD video but I have a series of pictures showing the catch progress and in none of the three photos (starting with the initial catch) is that toe down.

 

[Sixburgh Baby]

Most Amazing Sb 43 Post Ever - Dude Nails It

Got this from the Steelers message board - Dude just rips it - Read the whole thing.


First off - Hats off to the Cards - Specifically the D for most of the game, Wiz, Grimm, Haley, The Whole Staff, Kurt, Larry and the Offense - and all of the Cards fans who are taking this with class and staying humble, absolutely top notch. Trust me, we know what it's like to be on the other end of this and it sucks, you guys had a great year. God Bless You all...

Now...To the sore losing Cards, Seahawks, Bengals and whoever the **** else fans and Mediatards, specifically Tim Hassselbeck (You effeminate Never Been) hating on the 6 time champs.

It's the ultimate sign of accomplishment and respect to see the hatred, the ignorance and the poor sportsmanship just pour out of these morons. It means your just swimming in envy, jealousy and low self esteem. How much of a bitch do you have to be to start blaming officials for not reviewing a fumble, that WAS A FUMBLE, with three seconds left? How about not letting a three man rush get to your QB With the RING ON THE LINE! WITH THE TROPHY ON THE LINE! WITH HISTORY ON THE LINE! YOU BLEW IT! PERI - ****IN - ID! YOU BLEW IT!

HOW ABOUT NOT LETTTING AN 90 YARD GAME WINNING DRIVE TAKE PLACE WITH 2 MINUTES AND THIRTY SECONDS LEFT With the RING ON THE LINE! WITH THE TROPHY ON THE LINE! WITH HISTORY ON THE LINE! YOU BLEW IT!

**** YOU! ON THE GAME WINNING CATCH IF YOU WERE SMART ENOUGH TO PUT THREE GUYS ON SANTONIO HOLMES THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED, OH... SORRY, you did have three guys on him. Didn't work. My Bad.

You didn't like some of the calls? Welcome to Life. Welcome to Reality. Welcome to The Show. You Either find a way to have more points than the other guys at the end of the game or you lose. See how heart wrenching - yet - simple that is?

You won your challenges, you got a TD overturned, You got a MOTHER ****ING HOLDING CALL IN THE END ZONE FOR A SAFETY ON A THIRD DOWN CONVERSION - HANDING YOU 2 POINTS AND FORCING US TO GIVE IT BACK TO YOU - AND YOU STILL ****ING LOST! YOU STILL ****ING LOST! SHUT THE **** UP ALREADY!

SOME OF US STEELER FANS SAY WE WOULD BE SORE IF WE LOST - YEAH, OF COURSE - BUT I KNOW STEELER FANS WELL ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT WE WOULD HONESTLY LOOK AT ALL OF THE OPPORTUNITIES OUR TEAM HAD, PICK IT APART, WEIGH THE GOOD AND THE BAD AND SIMPLY TIP OUR HATS TO THE WINNERS! WE WON THE DAMNED GAME AND WE'RE STILL FILLING UP THE BOARDS WITH THINGS WE COULD HAVE DONE BETTER...

I'M NOT GONNA LET THEM SAY THE REFS GAVE IT TO US AND THEY SHOULD HAVE REVIEWED ANOTHER ****ING PLAY AND USE WORDS LIKE "TAINTED" - **** THEM - YOU WHAT'S TAINTED - HAVING THE SECOND LONGEST CHANPIONSHIP DROUGHT IN PROFESSIONAL SPORTS - ASKE ME - THATS'S ****ING TAINTED!

BOTTOM LINE - WE'RE THINKING ABOUT HOW TO GET #7 - YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT MORE WAYS BLAME THE UNIVERS INSTEAD OF ACCEPTING DEFEAT. DON'T WORRY, IF IT GETS TOO BAD YOU CAN ALWAYS HANG YOURSELVES.

Go Steelers.

 

[moklerman]

yup, he nailed just how classy the Steelers and it's fans are. Seems to me that so many Steelers fans wouldn't be so defensive if the game would hold up to scrutiny. No one's going to agree that it was a well called game though and it will forever be a game that has question marks.

 

[anks106]

yup, he nailed just how classy the Steelers and it's fans are. Seems to me that so many Steelers fans wouldn't be so defensive if the game would hold up to scrutiny. No one's going to agree that it was a well called game though and it will forever be a game that has question marks.

Steelers fans are rapidly assaulting my view that there is no one worse than a Cowboy fan.

 

[Sixburgh Baby]

yup, he nailed just how classy the Steelers and it's fans are. Seems to me that so many Steelers fans wouldn't be so defensive if the game would hold up to scrutiny. No one's going to agree that it was a well called game though and it will forever be a game that has question marks.

I don't like the swearing, but honestly - it's not being defensive, it's sticking up for your team. You think we should just sit back and let all of you guys say the game had question marks? I guess every call against the Steelers was the right call, every time they gave points back was okay and he's right about the holding call too. I mean, he prefaced it it with some cool stuff and let loose - We respect the Cards but a Win is a Win.

 

[moklerman]

I just want to get a gauge of everyone in this discussion.

-Should the "ball as a prop" non-call been flagged?
-Should the last play by the Cardinals been reviewed and judged by the referee or as is by the booth?

Those two questions will establish to me just how objective everyone is.

 

[AzCards21]

I wouldn't post that with any pride there Sixburgh you must have wrote it.

However, I don't blame the officials for this loss. WE should have taken care of business. It irritates me we had to challenge twice to get the right calls but in the end all we had to do was stop that drive. Go back a bit further and let's not give them a pick 6 and we win.

We lost this game. It fricken sucks but we did. There will always be questions after every game especially one of this magnitude but it is what it is.

We were within 2 minutes of being world champs...

Not bad for a team nobody thought should be there. Let's build on that and look forward not behind.

 

[anks106]

I just want to get a gauge of everyone in this discussion.

-Should the "ball as a prop" non-call been flagged?
-Should the last play by the Cardinals been reviewed and judged by the referee or as is by the booth?

Those two questions will establish to me just how objective everyone is.

What really sucks is there are so many Sixburghs out there that they are ruining the name of the few good Steelers fans there are. SteelCityMom was all class when she was here and so were some others, and yet you have people like this guy who manage to keep finding new lows