Encouraging Kyler Murray Trends

[Solar7]

What is this sorted by? Baker had 3700+ yards and 27 TDS and doesn’t show up?

Andrew Luck has 4300+ yards and 23 TDS and doesn’t show?

I can't figure out what this chart is trying to show for the life of me either.

Not a single thing ranks these players in any meaningful order.

 

[SoonerLou]

I suspect the list requires having at least 500 rushing yards.

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[SoonerLou]

I can't figure out what this chart is trying to show for the life of me either.

Not a single thing ranks these players in any meaningful order.

Most passing yards by a 500 yard carrier in their rookie season

Also if we were to just include great rookie seasons in general.
Only Cam and Luck produced more total (passing/rushing) yards in a season.

Each had almost 1400 yard Wrs in Reggie Wayne and Steve Smith in their respective rookie seasons.

 

[Solar7]

Most passing yards by a 500 yard carrier in their rookie season

Also if we were to just include great rookie seasons in general.
Only Cam and Luck produced more total (passing/rushing) yards in a season.

Each had almost 1400 yard Wrs in Reggie Wayne and Steve Smith in their respective rookie seasons.

Oh cool, well why not run the chart with TDs? You know, the things that help you win games. Points.

Don't make me go anti-Kyler again here. I really don't want to. But dumb charts that only pick and choose his successes while ignoring some of the best rookie seasons of all time aren't doing anyone any favors.

 

[Redsz]

Oh cool, well why not run the chart with TDs? You know, the things that help you win games. Points.

Don't make me go anti-Kyler again here. I really don't want to. But dumb charts that only pick and choose his successes while ignoring some of the best rookie seasons of all time aren't doing anyone any favors.

He has been nominated for rookie of the year so clearly his season does stand side by side with others on the list.

 

[juza76]

Kyler murray rookie season was better then luck rookie season
Both played with a non stellar cast but i remember Luck had something like 18 Interceptions and 10 fumble
Maybe one of the best overall was Robert griffin rookie season
Cam Newton used his body to make several rushing tds in the goal line, Murray can't do that

 

[SoonerLou]

Oh cool, well why not run the chart with TDs? You know, the things that help you win games. Points.

Don't make me go anti-Kyler again here. I really don't want to. But dumb charts that only pick and choose his successes while ignoring some of the best rookie seasons of all time aren't doing anyone any favors.

I mean...he also had 5 or 6 TDs taken away because of drops/penalties as well.. and even with that he only finished a few tds behind guys like Luck and RG3.

And I'm sure we both can agree no recent rookie that was good had as worse of a defense as the Cardinals? Short fields creating more TD opportunities wasn't exactly a common thing for the Cardinals this year.

I didn't make the chart, however at the very beginning of the season certain posters claimed he wasn't productive like some of the top rookie 1st rounders of years past...

Turns out he was.

 

[SoonerLou]

Kyler murray rookie season was better then luck rookie season
Both played with a below average team but i remember Luck made great part of his numbers in garbage time and had something like 18 Interceptions and 10 fumble
Maybe one of the best overall was Robert griffin rookie season
Cam Newton used his body to make several rushing tds in the goal line, Murray can't do that

Big fan of Cam, but that offense was stacked his rookie year.

Really solid Oline, elite WR, 2 very good TE's in Olsen and Shockey

I disagree about Luck. He was incredible. He was basically asked to do what Kyler did except he won a lot of games. Now he had better wrs in Wayne/Hilton...still was great. He had an advantage having a far more experienced NFL coach in Arians, but they made magic together. The numbers don't do him justice.

 

[juza76]

Big fan of Cam, but that offense was stacked his rookie year.

Really solid Oline, elite WR, 2 very good TE's in Olsen and Shockey

I disagree about Luck. He was incredible. He was basically asked to do what Kyler did except he won a lot of games. Now he had better wrs in Wayne/Hilton...still was great. He had an advantage having a far more experienced NFL coach in Arians, but they made magic together. The numbers don't do him justice.

Sorry
I was thinking about Peyton manning rookie season

 

[TheCardFan]

Don't make me go anti-Kyler again here. I really don't want to. But dumb charts that only pick and choose his successes while ignoring some of the best rookie seasons of all time aren't doing anyone any favors.

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[Solar7]

He has been nominated for rookie of the year so clearly his season does stand side by side with others on the list.

When you start pulling up lists that don't add senseless qualifiers like "must rush for over 500 yards," he ends up around 15th. That's nothing to sneeze at, and he certainly deserves to be in the rookie of the year argument, but posting a chart that places his season at #2 most productive rookie of all time at first glance is totally misleading.

 

[Solar7]

I mean...he also had 5 or 6 TDs taken away because of drops/penalties as well.. and even with that he only finished a few tds behind guys like Luck and RG3.

And I'm sure we both can agree no recent rookie that was good had as worse of a defense as the Cardinals? Short fields creating more TD opportunities wasn't exactly a common thing for the Cardinals this year.

I didn't make the chart, however at the very beginning of the season certain posters claimed he wasn't productive like some of the top rookie 1st rounders of years past...

Turns out he was.

I'm sure Luck and RG3 also had TDs taken away for penalty as well.

Our defense was horrible, but that actually doesn't help the situation. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but Kyler likely had the ball in his hands more than most due to terrible defensive play, thus giving him way more opportunities to throw. That would give him greater volume to reach passing and rushing marks, but not do so as efficiently as others. And let's be frank - this team scuttled in the red zone a lot this year. Short field or not, we didn't make the most of our opportunities there.

 

[slanidrac16]

Oh cool, well why not run the chart with TDs? You know, the things that help you win games. Points.

Don't make me go anti-Kyler again here. I really don't want to. But dumb charts that only pick and choose his successes while ignoring some of the best rookie seasons of all time aren't doing anyone any favors.

NO! DON’T DO IT!

 

[Adrian]

NO! DON’T DO IT!

Save yourself! Remember us.....

 

[kerouac9]

I mean...he also had 5 or 6 TDs taken away because of drops/penalties as well.. and even with that he only finished a few tds behind guys like Luck and RG3.

And I'm sure we both can agree no recent rookie that was good had as worse of a defense as the Cardinals? Short fields creating more TD opportunities wasn't exactly a common thing for the Cardinals this year.

I didn't make the chart, however at the very beginning of the season certain posters claimed he wasn't productive like some of the top rookie 1st rounders of years past...

Turns out he was.

It's absurd to assert that Kyler was uniquely abandoned by his defense without actually looking into it:

Cam had the 27th points defense and 28th yards defense his rookie season.
Deshaun Watson had the 32nd points and 20th yards defense his rookie year, where he was on pace for 3800+ passing yards, 615 rushing yards and 48 total TDs through six starts.
Baker Mayfield was supported by the 21st points defense and 30th yardage defense his rookie season.
Andrew Luck was playing with the leagues 21st scoring defense and 26th yardage defense.
Robert Griffin III was playing with the the 22nd-ranked scoring defense and 28th yardage defense.

 

[SoonerLou]

It's absurd to assert that Kyler was uniquely abandoned by his defense without actually looking into it:

Cam had the 27th points defense and 28th yards defense his rookie season.
Deshaun Watson had the 32nd points and 20th yards defense his rookie year, where he was on pace for 3800+ passing yards, 615 rushing yards and 48 total TDs through six starts.
Baker Mayfield was supported by the 21st points defense and 30th yardage defense his rookie season.
Andrew Luck was playing with the leagues 21st scoring defense and 26th yardage defense.
Robert Griffin III was playing with the the 22nd-ranked scoring defense and 28th yardage defense.

So you're right...Kyler's defense was worse.

Took a surge late for him to not lead the team in rushing as well. And every QB you named, maybe not Mayfield withstanding had better weapons.

So no matter how you cut it up. Worse defense, worse weapons and still played up to par with recent good rookies which was the original point. So what exactly are we arguing about?

I love Watson, but lol. Weren't you the guy earlier this season saying actual starts matter? We're talking close to a full season here. And not a good run with the best wr in the league at the time.

There was a time Kyler was on pace 5100 total yards as well if we're basing it on a few games.

 

[SoonerLou]

I'm sure Luck and RG3 also had TDs taken away for penalty as well.

Our defense was horrible, but that actually doesn't help the situation. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but Kyler likely had the ball in his hands more than most due to terrible defensive play, thus giving him way more opportunities to throw. That would give him greater volume to reach passing and rushing marks, but not do so as efficiently as others. And let's be frank - this team scuttled in the red zone a lot this year. Short field or not, we didn't make the most of our opportunities there.

You're discounting the fact we had a HC who was basically learning on the job what works and doesn't work in the NFL for about 5 or 6 weeks (if not longer)
Not to mention didnt run our offense in preseason.


As Trent Dilfer point out earlier in the season we had zero/low run actions that allows for scoring opportunties.

As for our defense. We didn't really give up many quick scoring drives. It was the brutal time consuming (3rd down conversion after 3rd down conversion) TD drives that did us in.

We also didn't have anyone to allow for many quick strike opportunites on offense as well either.

We know what the roster consists of right? The numbers are what they are. In context his rookie season was very impressive.

 

[Jetstream Green]

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[kerouac9]

So you're right...Kyler's defense was worse.

Took a surge late for him to not lead the team in rushing as well. And every QB you named, maybe not Mayfield withstanding had better weapons.

So no matter how you cut it up. Worse defense, worse weapons and still played up to par with recent good rookies which was the original point. So what exactly are we arguing about?

I love Watson, but lol. Weren't you the guy earlier this season saying actual starts matter? We're talking close to a full season here. And not a good run with the best wr in the league at the time.

There was a time Kyler was on pace 5100 total yards as well if we're basing it on a few games.

LOL. 28/32 isn't that different from what these other jokers had to deal with. Funny thing: good teams don't usually have the Top 8 pick needed to draft a QB who is going to start a bunch of games as a rookie.

How many of those guys had a Top 5 rushing offense supporting them?

Kyler had a very good rookie season, one that could, indeed, earn him the coveted AP NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year award. He could join other previous QB winners like Vince Young and Sam Bradford. It's really filtering stats (especially counting stats!) to make it seem like he had a historically good rookie season that makes Kyler's biggest fanboys seem so thirsty.

 

[Adrian]

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Classic.lol

 

[Jetstream Green]

LOL. 28/32 isn't that different from what these other jokers had to deal with. Funny thing: good teams don't usually have the Top 8 pick needed to draft a QB who is going to start a bunch of games as a rookie.

How many of those guys had a Top 5 rushing offense supporting them?

Kyler had a very good rookie season, one that could, indeed, earn him the coveted AP NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year award. He could join other previous QB winners like Vince Young and Sam Bradford. It's really filtering stats (especially counting stats!) to make it seem like he had a historically good rookie season that makes Kyler's biggest fanboys seem so thirsty.

Yes, he could end up like Vince Young or Sam Bradford and even RGIII... or Big Ben and Matt Ryan, or middle of pack longevity success as Cam, or encouraging like Dak

 

[SoonerLou]

LOL. 28/32 isn't that different from what these other jokers had to deal with. Funny thing: good teams don't usually have the Top 8 pick needed to draft a QB who is going to start a bunch of games as a rookie.

How many of those guys had a Top 5 rushing offense supporting them?

Kyler had a very good rookie season, one that could, indeed, earn him the coveted AP NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year award. He could join other previous QB winners like Vince Young and Sam Bradford. It's really filtering stats (especially counting stats!) to make it seem like he had a historically good rookie season that makes Kyler's biggest fanboys seem so thirsty.

Cam's offense rushed for 2400 yards
RG3's offense rushed for 2700 yards
Russell WIlson 2600 yards

Kyler's 2000


Run action usually lets mobile QB teams pile up yards. Kliff/Oline really didn't allow for that to happen until much later.

 

[SoonerLou]

He didn't produce a historically great season. I said with the parts he was working its very impressive

Context has been an issue for you K9 for a long time.

 

[kerouac9]

Cam's offense rushed for 2400 yards - Ranked 11th in NFL in yardage
RG3's offense rushed for 2700 yards - Ranked 1st in NFL in yardage
Russell WIlson 2600 yards - Why are you bringing him up for the first time now?

Kyler's 2000 - Ranked 10th in the NFL in yardage


Run action usually lets mobile QB teams pile up yards. Kliff/Oline really didn't allow for that to happen until much later.

Because you're looking at an entire season, why does the sequence actually matter? What is the impact of the addition 13 rushing yards per game the Cards added in the second half of the season to the first two whatever it is you're trying to show?

You're talking about counting stats across different eras. The fact that you're continually shifting the goalposts highlights that you care more about "winning the argument" than letting the stats tell the story.

 

[kerouac9]

Top 5 QB Picks who Started 14+ Games as rookies since 2010:

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Andrew Luck was just putting the ball in the air, man.