Elysium
- Thread starter Brian in Mesa
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Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
I wasn't trying to give the connotation that if you didn't think it was brilliant you were stupid. I should have clarified that, so I'll apologize for that part of my message.
As for the rest, well, nobody in this thread has managed to plumb the depths of it yet, so no apologies for saying everyone missed the point.
You're right, it wasn't about any of that. Sure, it had that one-percenter political vibe, at least on the outside, but that wasn't the least bit what the movie was about. What this movie was about, and what layers it had, has only been very faintly hinted at in this thread thus far. The imagery and subtext is so obvious I'm surprised people haven't picked it out.
I'll take your poor attempt at sarcasm as a compliment
No, really, I see where people would take my message wrong, in a manner I certainly didn't mean. No worries.
That's an intelligent response, right? Eh, I was going to blast you here, but it isn't worth it. I misstated my post, you didn't give an intelligent response, I noted that when I shouldn't have, and you replied like a schoolboy. Fault on both sides, sure, with you ending up way out of line. Man, take a visit to your cardiologist before your heart explodes, eh?
If this was a simple social commentary film, then yes, I believe it would have been more powerful by giving those living in Elysium even the smallest smidgeon of humanity. I don't want to spoil anything for anyone, so I'll put what I took from the movie below.
The religious and mythological layers and parallels in this film were stunning. Elysium, a type of Greek heaven separate from the other world of the afterlife, Hades, represents just that kind of heaven we find in the movie--where life is easiest for people. The regular citizens of earth were relegated to normal, ordinary lives at best, or hellish lives at worst. This fits completely with Greek mythology and ancient Greek beliefs. The inhabitants of Elysium also sat atop their Olympus, like Gods, and looked down their noses at, disregarded, and brutally treated those beneath them. Life under the Greed gods was much the same as under the rulers of Elysium.
But that's just the Greek angle. There you have a nun, regarding a heaven in the shape of a pentacle (I don't think I need to go over the religious symbolism from many different belief systems, good and bad, of the pentacle) explaining to the boy she tells has a destiny that Elysium isn't meant for him. Explaining how beautiful humanity looks from heaven. The boy then goes on to a huge chunk of lost life before his transformation and acceptance of his role as savior of all humanity. Remember, Jesus raged against his fate before the end, wondering why it had to be him. The parallel is clear, and his mental journey is also clear throughout the movie. It isn't just one moment of cheap payoff in the end.
My friend argued with me that the nun was the Mary figure, with this young boy without a father, but I disagreed. The mother of the sick little girl is the Mary figure in the movie, IMO. The nun represents God early on, and intermittently, but the mother of the sick little girl--with a fatherless child who ends up adopted in a protective manner by the woman's nominal mate--fills the Mary role, IMO. The immaculate conception connotation there seemed pretty obvious. I thought it was just there, but my friend thought it was both with the nun and with the mother. Could have been both, I suppose, but it got us talking, which is part of how good the movie was.
Getting back to the inhabitants of Elysium, a parallel I drew is how humanity would be treated by those fallen angels who felt themselves superior to mere humans, who were favored by God when they were not. The computer (God, of course--THAT is crystal clear in the movie) favored the citizens of Elysium instead of humanity, a nice reversal of classic biblical literature. Their treatment of humanity is much how I feel it would have been had their roles actually been reversed in the bible. Of course, once humanity manages to reprogram God (man, I enjoyed how this was portrayed), the Elysians were cast out of favor, giving humanity all of the power as in classic biblical literature.
Getting back to the Greeks, the Elysians also evoked powerful connections with the Lotus Eaters, those who reveled in their soft, comfortable existences in a supposed paradise. As the movie showed, however, it was a very flawed paradise. The three soldiers (fantastic characters, by the way) can represent the wrath and displeasure of the Gods in a metaphysical sense, or they can represent vengeful deities themselves. Copley himself has an Ares feel. Of course, Copley's character can easily be seen as a Lucifer or Satan figure. On one hand, he's cast out of favor of heaven, and strikes back at his creator (more of the Lucifer vibe); on the other hand, he's a straight up devil figure, evoking more of a cruel Satan vibe. Man, I could go on about them more, but I'm already rambling.
There were also smaller little bits here and there. The medical machines strongly evoke God's ability to work miracles. Jodie Foster's character had a Judas moment, refusing medical care perhaps to atone for her grave sins. The list goes on.
I could type more on the subject, but I suspect not many have read this far I'll probably also think of more allusions to religion, and my friend will definitely email me more observations. Suffice it to say, the religious layers were what I was referencing with my earlier post.
But that's just the Greek angle. There you have a nun, regarding a heaven in the shape of a pentacle (I don't think I need to go over the religious symbolism from many different belief systems, good and bad, of the pentacle) explaining to the boy she tells has a destiny that Elysium isn't meant for him. Explaining how beautiful humanity looks from heaven. The boy then goes on to a huge chunk of lost life before his transformation and acceptance of his role as savior of all humanity. Remember, Jesus raged against his fate before the end, wondering why it had to be him. The parallel is clear, and his mental journey is also clear throughout the movie. It isn't just one moment of cheap payoff in the end.
My friend argued with me that the nun was the Mary figure, with this young boy without a father, but I disagreed. The mother of the sick little girl is the Mary figure in the movie, IMO. The nun represents God early on, and intermittently, but the mother of the sick little girl--with a fatherless child who ends up adopted in a protective manner by the woman's nominal mate--fills the Mary role, IMO. The immaculate conception connotation there seemed pretty obvious. I thought it was just there, but my friend thought it was both with the nun and with the mother. Could have been both, I suppose, but it got us talking, which is part of how good the movie was.
Getting back to the inhabitants of Elysium, a parallel I drew is how humanity would be treated by those fallen angels who felt themselves superior to mere humans, who were favored by God when they were not. The computer (God, of course--THAT is crystal clear in the movie) favored the citizens of Elysium instead of humanity, a nice reversal of classic biblical literature. Their treatment of humanity is much how I feel it would have been had their roles actually been reversed in the bible. Of course, once humanity manages to reprogram God (man, I enjoyed how this was portrayed), the Elysians were cast out of favor, giving humanity all of the power as in classic biblical literature.
Getting back to the Greeks, the Elysians also evoked powerful connections with the Lotus Eaters, those who reveled in their soft, comfortable existences in a supposed paradise. As the movie showed, however, it was a very flawed paradise. The three soldiers (fantastic characters, by the way) can represent the wrath and displeasure of the Gods in a metaphysical sense, or they can represent vengeful deities themselves. Copley himself has an Ares feel. Of course, Copley's character can easily be seen as a Lucifer or Satan figure. On one hand, he's cast out of favor of heaven, and strikes back at his creator (more of the Lucifer vibe); on the other hand, he's a straight up devil figure, evoking more of a cruel Satan vibe. Man, I could go on about them more, but I'm already rambling.
There were also smaller little bits here and there. The medical machines strongly evoke God's ability to work miracles. Jodie Foster's character had a Judas moment, refusing medical care perhaps to atone for her grave sins. The list goes on.
I could type more on the subject, but I suspect not many have read this far
I'll probably also think of more allusions to religion, and my friend will definitely email me more observations. Suffice it to say, the religious layers were what I was referencing with my earlier post.I'll finish by saying once again that I didn't mean to say people were stupid for not thinking this movie was brilliant. I meant to say I thought it was brilliant and also that everyone else missed what the movie really went into. I'm often very bad at expressing myself accurately on here, so I apologize for the confusion.
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Chaplin
Better off silent
Very interesting take on the film, and I can see some of that. However, I'm not quite sure whether you are giving the writers more credit than perhaps they deserve.
I personally didn't get all the religious references--like I said, I was more concentrated on social commentary, which is what this film (and District 9 before it) is. IMO, of course.
I personally didn't get all the religious references--like I said, I was more concentrated on social commentary, which is what this film (and District 9 before it) is. IMO, of course.
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Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Cool. One of the reasons I think the movie works well is because there are many different opinions to be had.
crisper57
Open the Roof!
I wasn't trying to give the connotation that if you didn't think it was brilliant you were stupid. I should have clarified that, so I'll apologize for that part of my message.
As for the rest, well, nobody in this thread has managed to plumb the depths of it yet, so no apologies for saying everyone missed the point.
You're right, it wasn't about any of that. Sure, it had that one-percenter political vibe, at least on the outside, but that wasn't the least bit what the movie was about. What this movie was about, and what layers it had, has only been very faintly hinted at in this thread thus far. The imagery and subtext is so obvious I'm surprised people haven't picked it out.
I'll take your poor attempt at sarcasm as a compliment
That's an intelligent response, right? Eh, I was going to blast you here, but it isn't worth it. I misstated my post, you didn't give an intelligent response, I noted that when I shouldn't have, and you replied like a schoolboy. Fault on both sides, sure, with you ending up way out of line. Man, take a visit to your cardiologist before your heart explodes, eh?
If this was a simple social commentary film, then yes, I believe it would have been more powerful by giving those living in Elysium even the smallest smidgeon of humanity. I don't want to spoil anything for anyone, so I'll put what I took from the movie below.
The religious and mythological layers and parallels in this film were stunning. Elysium, a type of Greek heaven separate from the other world of the afterlife, Hades, represents just that kind of heaven we find in the movie--where life is easiest for people. The regular citizens of earth were relegated to normal, ordinary lives at best, or hellish lives at worst. This fits completely with Greek mythology and ancient Greek beliefs. The inhabitants of Elysium also sat atop their Olympus, like Gods, and looked down their noses at, disregarded, and brutally treated those beneath them. Life under the Greed gods was much the same as under the rulers of Elysium.
But that's just the Greek angle. There you have a nun, regarding a heaven in the shape of a pentacle (I don't think I need to go over the religious symbolism from many different belief systems, good and bad, of the pentacle) explaining to the boy she tells has a destiny that Elysium isn't meant for him. Explaining how beautiful humanity looks from heaven. The boy then goes on to a huge chunk of lost life before his transformation and acceptance of his role as savior of all humanity. Remember, Jesus raged against his fate before the end, wondering why it had to be him. The parallel is clear, and his mental journey is also clear throughout the movie. It isn't just one moment of cheap payoff in the end.
My friend argued with me that the nun was the Mary figure, with this young boy without a father, but I disagreed. The mother of the sick little girl is the Mary figure in the movie, IMO. The nun represents God early on, and intermittently, but the mother of the sick little girl--with a fatherless child who ends up adopted in a protective manner by the woman's nominal mate--fills the Mary role, IMO. The immaculate conception connotation there seemed pretty obvious. I thought it was just there, but my friend thought it was both with the nun and with the mother. Could have been both, I suppose, but it got us talking, which is part of how good the movie was.
Getting back to the inhabitants of Elysium, a parallel I drew is how humanity would be treated by those fallen angels who felt themselves superior to mere humans, who were favored by God when they were not. The computer (God, of course--THAT is crystal clear in the movie) favored the citizens of Elysium instead of humanity, a nice reversal of classic biblical literature. Their treatment of humanity is much how I feel it would have been had their roles actually been reversed in the bible. Of course, once humanity manages to reprogram God (man, I enjoyed how this was portrayed), the Elysians were cast out of favor, giving humanity all of the power as in classic biblical literature.
Getting back to the Greeks, the Elysians also evoked powerful connections with the Lotus Eaters, those who reveled in their soft, comfortable existences in a supposed paradise. As the movie showed, however, it was a very flawed paradise. The three soldiers (fantastic characters, by the way) can represent the wrath and displeasure of the Gods in a metaphysical sense, or they can represent vengeful deities themselves. Copley himself has an Ares feel. Of course, Copley's character can easily be seen as a Lucifer or Satan figure. On one hand, he's cast out of favor of heaven, and strikes back at his creator (more of the Lucifer vibe); on the other hand, he's a straight up devil figure, evoking more of a cruel Satan vibe. Man, I could go on about them more, but I'm already rambling.
There were also smaller little bits here and there. The medical machines strongly evoke God's ability to work miracles. Jodie Foster's character had a Judas moment, refusing medical care perhaps to atone for her grave sins. The list goes on.
I could type more on the subject, but I suspect not many have read this far
I'll finish by saying once again that I didn't mean to say people were stupid for not thinking this movie was brilliant. I meant to say I thought it was brilliant and also that everyone else missed what the movie really went into. I'm often very bad at expressing myself accurately on here, so I apologize for the confusion.
Ok. You win. I didn't peel back the social commentary to look at the metaphysical references. Of course, I also have about 5 beers in me when I watched it (after the Cards first preseason game), but that is not relevant here!
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I totally agree! Everyone knows that I'M the end all be all as far as movies are concerned!
you are all wrong. This was about the eternal fight between bert and ernie on if they are gay or just puppets. I cant believe you didnt see that. Do you just watch the movie or something? What kind of moviegoer doesnt bring a notepad and compare it to the deepest topic they can find through the 6 degrees of kevin bacon? Go back to your M night shamalan stuff
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Cardinals.Ken
That's Mr. Riff-Raff to you!
You suck...ya jackass!
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Brings to mind a story a friend of mine told me last year. He's an author, he's at some show and he wanders over to another booth and someone starts talking about books by the author at that booth. they then say it reminds me of and brings up a book HE wrote. The guy then proceeds to tell him what the book was really about and he says "not exactly."
The guy then tells him he knows nothing about writing and he responds "you may be right ,but I know that book, I'm the author, check the picture on the back if you don't believe me" and then walked away.
The guy then tells him he knows nothing about writing and he responds "you may be right ,but I know that book, I'm the author, check the picture on the back if you don't believe me" and then walked away.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Is that a true story, or are you quoting Woody Allen and Marshall McLuhan?
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Great story. It reminds me of the time I met the author Terry Brooks as a kid. He was signing books at a mall, and as he was signing the Sword of Shannara for me, I said, "I really love the Sword of SHAN-nara". He thanked me but said it was the "Sword of Shah-narah". I almost let slip that no, he was incorrect, that two n's indicate a hard 'N' sound, but stopped. He's the author, after all
Cardinals.Ken
That's Mr. Riff-Raff to you!
I still need to see this, if only to give context to the conversation here.
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why bother? pretty sure you're not going to get it (the movie...or the conversation) anyway you halfwit!
Cardinals.Ken
That's Mr. Riff-Raff to you!
I know it doesn't have Schwarzenegger in it, but I should still be able to follow it...jackass!
Great story. It reminds me of the time I met the author Terry Brooks as a kid. He was signing books at a mall, and as he was signing the Sword of Shannara for me, I said, "I really love the Sword of SHAN-nara". He thanked me but said it was the "Sword of Shah-narah". I almost let slip that no, he was incorrect, that two n's indicate a hard 'N' sound, but stopped. He's the author, after all
This reminds me of a story as well. A friend of mine went to San Diego Comic Con about 6 or 7 years ago (I forget). He had never been to any kind of show like that before. Really were not into that kind of thing at that level but still fans of much of the stuff there. He is very much just a casual fan but went because he thought it would be fun.
He bought an actual script used during filming of a short lived show. He noticed this average looking guy standing by who asked him if he ever watched that show. He said him and his wife loved the show and were so mad it was cancelled. He talked about how he loved the writers previous two shows. They asked if he liked them and he said "ofcourse" (like he was shocked at the question).
After that they both kind of just watched people pass by for about a minute or so. The guy then asked him, "so....do you want me to sign that?" Not really knowing anything about the creative side, he thought about it and just said "Umm...yeah I guess"....thinking it must be someone who worked on the show. The guy signed the script, said thank you and walked away.
His wife asked "who was that?" and he said he had no clue. He pulled out the script and read the signature.
The signature read.....Joss Whedon. LOL. He was walking the floor and used to have a reputation of doing so back then to mingle with the fans. Freaking unbelievable. Any of my other friends or I would have recognized him instantly. Him and his wife had no clue. They were approached by a few people who watched the entire thing and were offered big bucks to get the signed Firefly script. They said no and still have it.
BASTARD.
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No true story I went to highschool with the guy.
It was as some convention the guy talking to him had no idea who he was and was telling him what a book was really about, not knowing he was telling the author of the book what his own book was about.
He said it's quite common he has lots of friends who are authors who have had similar experiences with fans of books. It makes sense, I never look at the back to see what the author looks like.
It basically just spells out we all interpret books our own way and are convinced we're right. If it makes the book work for us great, but it doesn't mean that's what the author actually meant.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Yeah, I'm a writer, and a lot of writers say that, once your material is out of your hands, it isn't your work any more; it's the readers'.
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I guess I'm one who didn't "get" the movie. thought it was okay, fell asleep at one point.
Cardinals.Ken
That's Mr. Riff-Raff to you!
That doesn't surprise me. I don't see a blockhead like you getting a British comedy.
I just read this whole thread for the first time.. I had to check what I was reading by the end to make sure I wasn't in a Mr Bean thread.. Haha
The bride and I watched this today and both gave it a 3.5 out of 5. It felt like an opportunity lost. Good effects and solid performances by Damon and Foster, but the shaky-cam and plot holes kind of took the steam out of it for us. It could have been a much better picture.
Finally went to see this yesterday. Very pedestrian. Cool concept and it had legs but the second half of the movie degraded rapidly into cartoonish bad guy versus good guy. Jodie Foster's character was wasted.
Superbone
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