Durant to Suns

Covert Rain

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Less fun fact... he's already missed more games this season than in the entirety of his MVP season.

I don't think anyone doubt's Durant's ability, but his durability is suspect.

If not for injury and the utterly gutless choice to sign with Golden State, Durant would be cruising towards a top 10 or top 5 career in the NBA.

But, maybe he has an age 35+ run of dominance in him that catapults him among the elite of the elite. I hope so anyway.
As I understand it, this time keeping him out is more of a precaution. They want him healthy for chunks of this season. I am perfectly fine with what they are doing. I have zero doubt after seeing him in warmups if this was the playoffs he is playing.
 

TJ

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Welp. Some social media intern is about to get fired

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Hoop Head

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ESPN+ has a piece up regrading trades from last trade deadline. Of course the Suns acquired KD then. Here's the blurb on that....

Kevin Durant to the Phoenix Suns​



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The trade: The Phoenix Suns acquire F Kevin Durant and G T.J. Warren from the Brooklyn Nets for F Mikal Bridges, F Cameron Johnson, F Jae Crowder, four first-round picks and a 2028 pick swap.

Original Phoenix grade: A

New Phoenix grade: B

I was exuberant in installing the Suns as West favorites after adding Durant, who was sidelined by a knee sprain at the time of the trade. While Durant subsequently spraining his ankle in pregame warmups before his home debut was unforeseeable, the challenges to Phoenix's continuity and depth that led to a six-game series loss to the eventual champion Denver Nuggets in the second round were to be expected.

There's still time for the Suns to justify the outlay of four first-round picks and a swap. Durant is healthy this season and continues to perform at an All-NBA level. After a slow start with newcomer Bradley Beal sidelined by injuries, Phoenix has moved up the West standings and has the fifth-best odds to win this season's title (+1600), according to ESPN BET. But bringing a first championship to the Valley of the Sun might be the bar for making this an "A" trade in the long run.


 

Hoop Head

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From the same article, here's the Nets regrade.

Original Brooklyn grade: B

New Brooklyn grade: A

This trade looked even better for the Nets in early December, when Mikal Bridges was playing like an All-Star and Brooklyn was battling for a top-six spot. Since then, both Bridges and the Nets have strained under the weight of carrying such a heavy load offensively without a proven star scorer such as Durant. They'll need to find that player via trade or free agency.

Still, Brooklyn has to feel great about how this trade sets up for the long term. The Suns' deal for Beal and looming second apron restrictions could tighten their window for competing. The Nets own Phoenix's unprotected first-round picks in 2025, 2027 and 2029 as well as a 2028 swap, experiencing the other side of a deal involving multiple lottery picks after sending them to the Boston Celtics in the trade that brought Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce to Brooklyn in 2013.
 

Phrazbit

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ESPN+ has a piece up regrading trades from last trade deadline. Of course the Suns acquired KD then. Here's the blurb on that....





B is rather kind.

I'd say it's an incomplete or a D at this point. It was done to make us a sure fire title contender, perhaps even favorite, and we have not looked the part.
 

Hoop Head

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B is rather kind.

I'd say it's an incomplete or a D at this point. It was done to make us a sure fire title contender, perhaps even favorite, and we have not looked the part.

I'd give it a C or C-. The only thing that makes it a B is how we were able to add Beal and the Ayton trade working out. The KD trade on it's own wasn't a big win though. I also think it's too early to grade properly but given how it's basically forced us to ride it out due to Brooklyn owning half our picks over the next 7 years and the new CBA punishing tax teams.
 

Covert Rain

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B is rather kind.

I'd say it's an incomplete or a D at this point. It was done to make us a sure fire title contender, perhaps even favorite, and we have not looked the part.
I give it a “B” for sure. The only thing that can make it an “A” is a title.
 

Mainstreet

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I'd give it a C or C-. The only thing that makes it a B is how we were able to add Beal and the Ayton trade working out. The KD trade on it's own wasn't a big win though. I also think it's too early to grade properly but given how it's basically forced us to ride it out due to Brooklyn owning half our picks over the next 7 years and the new CBA punishing tax teams.

Yeah, the final grades are not in unless the Suns win a championship.

The Durant trade likely gets a C, but the Beal trade looks like an A.
 

Superbone

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In a few years it will be either an A or an F. There isn't room for much middle ground.
Yeah, that's a good point. We mortgaged the future for now so if we don't at the very least get close to a title, it was a mistake. It's a thin line. But it also shows guts and the willingness to go for it. There's a good chance we also wouldn't have won a title if we had stayed pat. Of course, we'll never know. That would balance the trade back the other way. Another factor is how many more years that KD plays at a high level. Two more years? Three more years?

The true grade won't be known until all is said and done. It has the potential to lay anywhere in the spectrum from A to F. However, I don't think I could ever give it an F as it was a swing for the fences. There was no way to know at the time but at least Ishbia gave it a full, unabashed, home run swing.
 

Cheesebeef

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Yeah, the final grades are not in unless the Suns win a championship.

The Durant trade likely gets a C, but the Beal trade looks like an A.
The Beal trade is completely dependent on KD being here. We had become an also ran that was sliding down with CP3 being cooked and Ayton being a giant douche.

KD kept us in the championship ship convo and that’s why Beal forced his way here and Gordon signed for the minimum. None of that happens if we just stayed the course with the mediocrity on the team last season.

How you guys don’t get this yet is beyond me.
 

Phrazbit

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The Beal trade is completely dependent on KD being here. We had become an also ran that was sliding down with CP3 being cooked and Ayton being a giant douche.

KD kept us in the championship ship convo and that’s why Beal forced his way here and Gordon signed for the minimum. None of that happens if we just stayed the course with the mediocrity on the team last season.

How you guys don’t get this yet is beyond me.

The trade was made under the logic that it was going to make us a sure fire contender, maybe even a favorite... that is why it was worth risking what could be a decade of competitive basketball.

You have mostly agreed we are not a contender, you've also opined that this team has no juice for you, you don't feel any connection to these guys (other than Booker), you've acknowledged that injuries are very likely to derail the whole thing.

And you're still slamming on the idea of disagreeing with the trade and saying somehow "we don't get it"?

If we end up being a 1st or 2nd round bounce then praying that we can find better guys off the scrap heap... then I won't take much solace that we also have Bradley Beal on an albatross contract or that we had a year of renting Eric Gordon.
 
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Covert Rain

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The trade was made under the logic that it was going to make us a sure fire contender, maybe even a favorite... that is why it was worth risking what could be a decade of competitive basketball.

You have mostly agreed we are not a contender, you've also opined that this team has no juice for you, you don't feel any connection to these guys (other than Booker), you've acknowledged that injuries are very likely to derail the whole thing.

And you're still slamming on the idea of disagreeing with the trade and saying somehow "we don't get it"?

If we end up being a 1st or 2nd round bounce then praying that we can find better guys off the scrap heap... then I won't take much solace that we also have Bradley Beal on an albatross contract or that we had a year of renting Eric Gordon.
Nobody would be happy if this team spent the remainder of Book's contract, waiting for a bunch of young guys you drafted with all those assets to develop while this team fights to get into the bubble either.
 

Mainstreet

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If the Wizards hadn't decided to rebuild, Bradley Beal wouldn't have been available this past summer.

It was fortuitous he became available and he had the right to veto any trade, otherwise the Suns wouldn't have had the right assets to trade for him.

Chris Paul, Landry Shamet, second round picks and swaps wouldn't have been enough to get a three time All-Star.

The Durant trade was made at the trade deadline of 2022-23 season. They were not linked. Details matter.
 

Cheesebeef

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If the Wizards hadn't decided to rebuild, Bradley Beal wouldn't have been available this past summer.

It was fortuitous he became available and he had the right to veto any trade, otherwise the Suns wouldn't have had the right assets to trade for him.

Chris Paul, Landry Shamet, second round picks and swaps wouldn't have been enough to get a three time All-Star.

The Durant trade was made at the trade deadline of 2022-23 season. They were not linked. Details matter.

Having a shred of insight matters as well.

But why would I expect anything else from a guy who all off-season and even at points earlier this year waxed poetic about how the Nets future with the Suns beloved Twins was likely brighter than the Suns and how there was even a good chance they would likely win a title with their current pathetic nucleus than our own.
 
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Covert Rain

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If the Wizards hadn't decided to rebuild, Bradley Beal wouldn't have been available this past summer.

It was fortuitous he became available and he had the right to veto any trade, otherwise the Suns wouldn't have had the right assets to trade for him.

Chris Paul, Landry Shamet, second round picks and swaps wouldn't have been enough to get a three time All-Star.

The Durant trade was made at the trade deadline of 2022-23 season. They were not linked. Details matter.
I don't believe anybody is debating that. There were multiple deals on the table for Beal and the list at the time was Sacramento Kings, Miami Heat, and Milwaukee Bucks. He CHOSE the Suns. I can't believe it's even a debate that KD was a factor.
 

AzStevenCal

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Nobody would be happy if this team spent the remainder of Book's contract, waiting for a bunch of young guys you drafted with all those assets to develop while this team fights to get into the bubble either.
Man I hate to keep revisiting this but I also can't walk past a statement like this without responding. You say that as if those were are only choices and that's just not the case.

There were many reasons to not want the Durant deal, for me though, the most important reason was that I didn't believe we'd stockpiled enough assets (picks and developing players) to make it work for us. And that was back when I thought our deal would be contract fillers and picks and that we'd still have Mikal after the deal was done. Unfortunately, our embarrassing draft failures of the previous decade left us with very little to work with. As it is, I'm shocked we could cobble together a group as respectable as this one especially once the new CBA went into effect.
 

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I don't believe anybody is debating that. There were multiple deals on the table for Beal and the list at the time was Sacramento Kings, Miami Heat, and Milwaukee Bucks. He CHOSE the Suns. I can't believe it's even a debate that KD was a factor.
People still want to cling to their original takes that the KD deal was the biggest abomination of all time. That’s all that’s really going on.
 

Covert Rain

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Man I hate to keep revisiting this but I also can't walk past a statement like this without responding. You say that as if those were are only choices and that's just not the case.

There were many reasons to not want the Durant deal, for me though, the most important reason was that I didn't believe we'd stockpiled enough assets (picks and developing players) to make it work for us. And that was back when I thought our deal would be contract fillers and picks and that we'd still have Mikal after the deal was done. Unfortunately, our embarrassing draft failures of the previous decade left us with very little to work with. As it is, I'm shocked we could cobble together a group as respectable as this one especially once the new CBA went into effect.
Actually I have brought up our draft history and the fact that those assets don't guarantee moves that brings another star here either to play with Booker. There are lots of things that might have happened. Doesn't mean any of them actually happen. For me the KD thing was something realistic and tangible because he WANTED TO BE HERE. They took a risk. It's a big risk.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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If the Wizards hadn't decided to rebuild, Bradley Beal wouldn't have been available this past summer.

It was fortuitous he became available and he had the right to veto any trade, otherwise the Suns wouldn't have had the right assets to trade for him.

Chris Paul, Landry Shamet, second round picks and swaps wouldn't have been enough to get a three time All-Star.

The Durant trade was made at the trade deadline of 2022-23 season. They were not linked. Details matter.
So beal was going to come here without the Durant deal having happened? Nope. So you have to see what other impact the trade has, even if not 100% foreseeable at the time. Hindsight is allowable when regrading a trade (in fact, that’s what the regrade is based upon). Details DO matter.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I don't believe anybody is debating that. There were multiple deals on the table for Beal and the list at the time was Sacramento Kings, Miami Heat, and Milwaukee Bucks. He CHOSE the Suns. I can't believe it's even a debate that KD was a factor.
It’s not really.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Man I hate to keep revisiting this but I also can't walk past a statement like this without responding. You say that as if those were are only choices and that's just not the case.

There were many reasons to not want the Durant deal, for me though, the most important reason was that I didn't believe we'd stockpiled enough assets (picks and developing players) to make it work for us. And that was back when I thought our deal would be contract fillers and picks and that we'd still have Mikal after the deal was done. Unfortunately, our embarrassing draft failures of the previous decade left us with very little to work with. As it is, I'm shocked we could cobble together a group as respectable as this one especially once the new CBA went into effect.
This is fair. But I think we are done talking about grades at the time of the trade (though you’re free to revisit it) and instead focusing on the regrade that dragged this all up.

I am surprised to hear that you didn’t think this team would be a contender if we had retained bridges in that trade. This team would be nearly unstoppable if we still had bridges imo. (Cue mainstream, yes we know you don’t think he should’ve been included)
 

AzStevenCal

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This is fair. But I think we are done talking about grades at the time of the trade (though you’re free to revisit it) and instead focusing on the regrade that dragged this all up.

I am surprised to hear that you didn’t think this team would be a contender if we had retained bridges in that trade. This team would be nearly unstoppable if we still had bridges imo. (Cue mainstream, yes we know you don’t think he should’ve been included)
Keep in mind, my comment about Bridges was how I felt prior to the trade. I'd love to have Mikal on this team and with him, I'd really like our chances. But I never expected us to be able to add another star to the roster (Beal) once we shipped off much of our assets.
 
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