Durant to Suns

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Most free agent signings bring risk. Nash's numbers were down a little from the previous season and we gave him a 6 year deal which many (but not all) pundits viewed as too risky given he was about to turn 30.

Cuban wanted to keep Nash, he just wouldn't go beyond a 4 year deal. Compared to the "risky" that we are talking about with Durant, they aren't anywhere near the same. And we didn't give up players and unprotected picks to make it happen, we just gave him a fair annual salary that was likely to extend a year or two beyond his effectiveness.
But the difference was in the upside too. Durant was a bona fide MVP candidate when we acquired him. No one, not even dantoni, could have projected that nash would rise to a two time MVP. The KD trade was higher on both the risk and reward axis at the time of both trades.
 

AzStevenCal

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But the difference was in the upside too. Durant was a bona fide MVP candidate when we acquired him. No one, not even dantoni, could have projected that nash would rise to a two time MVP. The KD trade was higher on both the risk and reward axis at the time of both trades.
I disagree that Durant was a bona fide MVP candidate by the time we'd acquired him but he had been prior to his injury in early January so I'll concede the point. But even grading him as an MVP level player, I don't think that difference between his playing level and the expectations regarding Nash, significant though it is, comes anywhere close to offsetting both the cost and the risks.
 

Phrazbit

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But the difference was in the upside too. Durant was a bona fide MVP candidate when we acquired him. No one, not even dantoni, could have projected that nash would rise to a two time MVP. The KD trade was higher on both the risk and reward axis at the time of both trades.

Even so, in comparison to the Nash trade, I think the risk side dramatically outweighs the risk side of the Durant trade.

If Nash didn't pan out... then one the back end of the deal, we're wasting some cap space. If Durant delivers anything less than a title, this trade is potentially one of the worst trades in NBA history.

In the off season of 2024 it is a near certainty that we wouldn't be able to trade Durant for a player of Bridges caliber, straight up. That is 16 months away... and even after that reality comes to pass, we will still owe 3 unprotected firsts and a pick swap.

Anything less than a title in the next 2-3 years and this is one of the all-time disaster trades. I hate being in that position, because winning a title is freaking hard. The Bulls and early 2000s Lakers made it look easy, but the league was not as competitive as it is now. Even if Durant is healthy, I'd still peg us as a dog to the Bucks and Celtics.
 

Covert Rain

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But the difference was in the upside too. Durant was a bona fide MVP candidate when we acquired him. No one, not even dantoni, could have projected that nash would rise to a two time MVP. The KD trade was higher on both the risk and reward axis at the time of both trades.
Not to mention the salary implications and locking up that cap space with the Nash move. As we all came to find out, the team was only willing to spend so much money. The team as a result shed assets in the coming years.
 

Joe Mama

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The Suns weren't getting Kobe. They sold off their pick to free up money for Q-Rich and to make a run immediately. D'Antoni didn't like rookies and trading away that pick enabled us to offer Q a little more than midlevel money, which is all we needed to get him after signing Nash. Nash was the #1 plan because Kobe wasn't a real option. I think the Kobe talk was all a smokescreen of sorts because the Colangelo's and Sarver went to meet Nash at midnight when free agency started and all he was offered essentially capped us out.

They did trade away Marbury and Penny to free up cap space, which made sense because Amar'e needed the ball more and Nash was the right sort of PG to make it work. Marbury was a shoot first PG so moving him made sense once we knew Amar'e was a franchise player of sorts.
They were pretty confident Iggy and Deng would be off the board by the time they picked or they probably would have kept them. They also wanted to maximize the amount of money they had to spend in free agency where their prime targets were Nash and M Okur. They struck out on the latter and used to put money on Richardson . Imagine if they had just kept the draft pick and taken Iggy and used the Richardson money to resign Joe johnsen to the deal he wanted?
 

Cheesebeef

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They were pretty confident Iggy and Deng would be off the board by the time they picked or they probably would have kept them. They also wanted to maximize the amount of money they had to spend in free agency where their prime targets were Nash and M Okur. They struck out on the latter and used to put money on Richardson . Imagine if they had just kept the draft pick and taken Iggy and used the Richardson money to resign Joe johnsen to the deal he wanted?
Or if they had just gotten Okur. He would have been the perfect stretch 5 for that DA team and we would have been BIG as well.
 

Covert Rain

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Or if they had just gotten Okur. He would have been the perfect stretch 5 for that DA team and we would have been BIG as well.
If some created a list of missed picks, picks we passed on or scenarios like this I would be sick.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Or if they had just gotten Okur. He would have been the perfect stretch 5 for that DA team and we would have been BIG as well.
The Diaw role, later.

That was the days of Gambo feverishly reporting the possibility of Kobe AND T-Mac. Good times!
 

Phrazbit

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Joe Johnson, Marion, Iggy and Amare... with Nash throwing lobs.

It would have been an iconic team. Even if they don't win a title (and I think they would have won a couple) they still would go down in lore as one of the most fun teams in league history, especially in comparison to the plodding pace the rest of the league was operating at.
 

Cheesebeef

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Joe Johnson, Marion, Iggy and Amare... with Nash throwing lobs.

It would have been an iconic team. Even if they don't win a title (and I think they would have won a couple) they still would go down in lore as one of the most fun teams in league history, especially in comparison to the plodding pace the rest of the league was operating at.
And with KT and Raja off the bench to go big/nasty depending on matchups.
 

Phrazbit

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And with KT and Raja off the bench to go big/nasty depending on matchups.

I don't think we could have gotten KT, we traded Richardson for him and if we draft Iggy we don't have Richardson.

But Raja certainly could have been brought in.

Had Jerry not sold I think the dream would have happened.

Tragic that he sold the Suns because of the Diamondbacks financial troubles and not even a year later the Dback board forces him out. What rubbish.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I disagree that Durant was a bona fide MVP candidate by the time we'd acquired him but he had been prior to his injury in early January so I'll concede the point. But even grading him as an MVP level player, I don't think that difference between his playing level and the expectations regarding Nash, significant though it is, comes anywhere close to offsetting both the cost and the risks.
You’re entitled to your opinion. And many seasons of no titles.
 

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A deleted tweet by Kevin Durant to a Nets fan.

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Mainstreet

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The Suns don't even have a first round pick they can trade until 2031 unless it's a draft day trade. The Nets can even swap 2028 first round picks.

And that is leaving Bridges and Cam Johnson out of the equation. Also, add what they could have received in trade for Jae Crowder.

Think about it.
 

Proximo

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The Suns don't even have a first round pick they can trade until 2031 unless it's a draft day trade. The Nets can even swap 2028 first round picks.

And that is leaving Bridges and Cam Johnson out of the equation. Also, add what they could have received in trade for Jae Crowder.

Think about it.
Yeah, I've thought about it. We can't do anything about it now.

Going to have to pray good vets are willing to play cheap for this team, and that we get lucky on some street free agents. It is what it is.
 

GatorAZ

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The Suns don't even have a first round pick they can trade until 2031 unless it's a draft day trade. The Nets can even swap 2028 first round picks.

And that is leaving Bridges and Cam Johnson out of the equation. Also, add what they could have received in trade for Jae Crowder.

Think about it.
I’m not a Crowder honk but they butchered that situation given the fact how thin our wings are. You either had to involve him in a separate deal for something worthwhile or swap his contract for Saric in the KD deal and beg/pay him to come back.
 

Covert Rain

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The Suns don't even have a first round pick they can trade until 2031 unless it's a draft day trade. The Nets can even swap 2028 first round picks.

And that is leaving Bridges and Cam Johnson out of the equation. Also, add what they could have received in trade for Jae Crowder.

Think about it.
IMO, despite what some fans think the Suns have thought all of this through. It's not like they still don't have every other pick and options. Maybe the Suns think we have only a couple realistic windows left with Book?

We are in the first window and are trying to extend it with KD for the rest of this season and next (possibly a 3rd but I doubt it). I can see them, by the end of next year, making changes if they don't win a title. I can see Paul, Ayton and KD all being gone. Ayton possibly sooner if things completely implode next season. The Suns would then likely try and shed other salary as well to clear space and bring back assets.

Then they will have one last window with Book to retool. Books extension kicks in in the 2024-2025 season. I think I read he will take up 35% of our cap and be 27. That second window won't be very long because if the Suns ever consider moving Book for a boatload of assets it will have to be in his prime. The second window will likely be only 2 or 3 seasons tops. Beyond that Book isn't gong to stick around for another complete rebuild and will want to be moved anyway.

Unless we are winning titles, Book never finishes his extension contract as a Sun. The team will be ready for a complete rebuild by the end of the second window. I think the Suns have thought this all through with the time they have left with Book. You guys honestly think the Suns front office hasn't spent hours upon hours figuring all this out or at least contemplating?!!?
 
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Phrazbit

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IMO, despite what some fans think the Suns have thought all of this through. It's not like they still don't have every other pick and options. Maybe the Suns think we have only a couple realistic windows left with Book?

We are in the first window and are trying to extend it with KD for the rest of this season and next (possibly a 3rd but I doubt it). I can see them, by the end of next year, making changes if they don't win a title. I can see Paul, Ayton and KD all being gone. Ayton possibly sooner if things completely implode next season. The Suns would then likely try and shed other salary as well to clear space and bring back assets.

Then they will have one last window with Book to retool. Books extension kicks in in the 2024-2025 season. I think I read he will take up 35% of our cap and be 27. That second window won't be very long because if the Suns ever consider moving Book for a boatload of assets it will have to be in his prime. The second window will likely be only 2 or 3 seasons tops. Beyond that Book isn't gong to stick around for another complete rebuild and will want to be moved anyway.

Unless we are winning titles, Book never finishes his extension contract as a Sun. The team will be ready for a complete rebuild by the end of the second window. I think the Suns have thought this all through with the time they have left with Book. You guys honestly think the Suns front office hasn't spent hours upon hours figuring all this out or at least contemplating?!!?
I think they had thought about that and decided the trade wasn’t reasonable for the future, and then Ishbia came in, with his name fresh on the deed, and decided to make a big splash.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Yeah, I've thought about it. We can't do anything about it now.

Going to have to pray good vets are willing to play cheap for this team, and that we get lucky on some street free agents. It is what it is.
And all the first round picks we actually do have every other year.
 

Mainstreet

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I’m not a Crowder honk but they butchered that situation given the fact how thin our wings are. You either had to involve him in a separate deal for something worthwhile or swap his contract for Saric in the KD deal and beg/pay him to come back.

There is not any doubt about it. The Crowder situation was handled poorly, leaving the Suns roster further depleted of depth.
 

AzStevenCal

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There is not any doubt about it. The Crowder situation was handled poorly, leaving the Suns roster further depleted of depth.
Yep, the only real question IMO is where the fault lies. I'm sure some of it is on Crowder but I believe the lion's share was inside the organization, namely JJ or Monty or Sarver. Regardless, we lost a role player whose game was nothing special but all told he was close to perfect for our needs.
 

Mainstreet

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Yep, the only real question IMO is where the fault lies. I'm sure some of it is on Crowder but I believe the lion's share was inside the organization, namely JJ or Monty or Sarver. Regardless, we lost a role player whose game was nothing special but all told he was close to perfect for our needs.

Exactly. A GM cannot lose a rotation player for nothing when there were trade options no matter who was to blame.
 

AzStevenCal

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Exactly. A GM cannot lose a rotation player for nothing when there were trade options no matter who was to blame.
It happens sometimes but in fairness, it didn't happen here. Jae was part of the Durant trade, for all we know it was the only way the deal would have worked for Brooklyn and Milwaukee. And then we depleted our bench even more by giving away Saric who only recently had started playing more like the Dario of old.
 

Mainstreet

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IMO, despite what some fans think the Suns have thought all of this through. It's not like they still don't have every other pick and options. Maybe the Suns think we have only a couple realistic windows left with Book?

We are in the first window and are trying to extend it with KD for the rest of this season and next (possibly a 3rd but I doubt it). I can see them, by the end of next year, making changes if they don't win a title. I can see Paul, Ayton and KD all being gone. Ayton possibly sooner if things completely implode next season. The Suns would then likely try and shed other salary as well to clear space and bring back assets.

Then they will have one last window with Book to retool. Books extension kicks in in the 2024-2025 season. I think I read he will take up 35% of our cap and be 27. That second window won't be very long because if the Suns ever consider moving Book for a boatload of assets it will have to be in his prime. The second window will likely be only 2 or 3 seasons tops. Beyond that Book isn't gong to stick around for another complete rebuild and will want to be moved anyway.

Unless we are winning titles, Book never finishes his extension contract as a Sun. The team will be ready for a complete rebuild by the end of the second window. I think the Suns have thought this all through with the time they have left with Book. You guys honestly think the Suns front office hasn't spent hours upon hours figuring all this out or at least contemplating?!!?

If the Suns FO and ownership thought this trade through, they had to see all that could go wrong.

I can't believe there is already talk of trading Durant.
 
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