Durant to Suns

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,085
Reaction score
14,967
I am not all doom and gloom yet because all the statements seem to indicate it's minor and they just want him back 100%. I would be lying though if I didn't say our luck beyond sucked. I think we get him back for the stretch.
I agree we probably get him back for the stretch but I think it's a stretch to point to Durant and lament our bad luck. We chose this path, the man is a walking injury and has been for many years. We just have to cross our fingers that his injuries won't surface when we need him most.

Fox Sports lists his injury issues going back to 2017 and it shows him with a sore ankle on 11/19 of that year and then again 5 days later, then 6 days later he has a sprained left ankle followed by a sprained right ankle 3 days later, and then ankle again a year later, and then a right ankle contusion in March of 2019. Ankle shows up again in December of 21, and then again on March 8th (current injury). Maybe we need to get this man into some high tops?
 

Superbone

Phoenix native; Lifelong Suns Fan
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Posts
6,017
Reaction score
3,009
Location
San Diego, CA
I agree we probably get him back for the stretch but I think it's a stretch to point to Durant and lament our bad luck. We chose this path, the man is a walking injury and has been for many years. We just have to cross our fingers that his injuries won't surface when we need him most.

Fox Sports lists his injury issues going back to 2017 and it shows him with a sore ankle on 11/19 of that year and then again 5 days later, then 6 days later he has a sprained left ankle followed by a sprained right ankle 3 days later, and then ankle again a year later, and then a right ankle contusion in March of 2019. Ankle shows up again in December of 21, and then again on March 8th (current injury). Maybe we need to get this man into some high tops?
Exactly. We should have known he was going to roll his ankle in the layup line. Obvs. Also, apparently studies show that wearing high tops doesn't prevent ankle injuries. Might even give a false sense of security.
 

95pro

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 10, 2007
Posts
12,241
Reaction score
3,829
No matter what happened in the playoffs last season, the Suns were close.

There is something satisfying about building your team from the ground up with the core players the Suns drafted. Mikal Bridges developed into the player you don't trade.

I'm hoping the current path is kind to the Suns. If they get and stay healthy, the opportunity is there.

My only hope is that the new owner isn't too trigger happy. He made an immediate splash upon arrival. Hopefully he lets the more experience decision makers do their job in the coming years.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,501
Reaction score
12,454
Location
Arizona
I agree we probably get him back for the stretch but I think it's a stretch to point to Durant and lament our bad luck. We chose this path, the man is a walking injury and has been for many years. We just have to cross our fingers that his injuries won't surface when we need him most.

Fox Sports lists his injury issues going back to 2017 and it shows him with a sore ankle on 11/19 of that year and then again 5 days later, then 6 days later he has a sprained left ankle followed by a sprained right ankle 3 days later, and then ankle again a year later, and then a right ankle contusion in March of 2019. Ankle shows up again in December of 21, and then again on March 8th (current injury). Maybe we need to get this man into some high tops?
Hightops won't help. He needs to have his ankles taped or where the type of ankle brace that goes inside his shoe. He has twig legs and ankle rolls are the most common injury in the NBA. Seems like knowing that more guys in general would at least tape up.
 
Last edited:

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,085
Reaction score
14,967
Exactly. We should have known he was going to roll his ankle in the layup line. Obvs. Also, apparently studies show that wearing high tops doesn't prevent ankle injuries. Might even give a false sense of security.
Well clearly not but the point is, he has a well established history of ankle problems. So whether it's in a game or in the layup line of rushing to get popcorn before the movie starts, he appears to be at greater risk for an ankle problem than most athletes.

As for the high tops, I was mostly kidding. I know some experts even say the risk goes up with high tops beyond the false security aspect but I don't recall the specifics.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
60,876
Reaction score
53,031
Location
SoCal
Well clearly not but the point is, he has a well established history of ankle problems. So whether it's in a game or in the layup line of rushing to get popcorn before the movie starts, he appears to be at greater risk for an ankle problem than most athletes.

As for the high tops, I was mostly kidding. I know some experts even say the risk goes up with high tops beyond the false security aspect but I don't recall the specifics.
Yeah we’ve had the high top discussion here. I was surprised to see the science behind it. I couldn’t ever bring myself to play in low tops, but then again, I’ve broken my right ankle 5 times playing hoops (Steve would’ve never traded for me) in high tops . . . so maybe I’m slightly stupid.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,085
Reaction score
14,967
Yeah we’ve had the high top discussion here. I was surprised to see the science behind it. I couldn’t ever bring myself to play in low tops, but then again, I’ve broken my right ankle 5 times playing hoops (Steve would’ve never traded for me) in high tops . . . so maybe I’m slightly stupid.
Well, maybe not "never". There was a time when injury history wouldn't have kept me from supporting a trade. But anymore, I am reluctant to consider drafting, signing or trading for someone that has real head or heart questions or for a player that has a higher than average injury risk.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,501
Reaction score
12,454
Location
Arizona
Well, maybe not "never". There was a time when injury history wouldn't have kept me from supporting a trade. But anymore, I am reluctant to consider drafting, signing or trading for someone that has real head or heart questions or for a player that has a higher than average injury risk.
I generally agree with you except this is the Suns. 55 years of trying to build the draft and sign free agents have netted nothing. This team has to take higher than average risks or I will be long gone from this earth before we see a title.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,085
Reaction score
14,967
I generally agree with you except this is the Suns. 55 years of trying to build the draft and sign free agents have netted nothing. This team has to take higher than average risks or I will be long gone from this earth before we see a title.
We've traded for injury risks before, we've signed them before. We've drafted and signed mental midgets and the emotionally immature before. AFAIC, doing something like that again is very Suns like. Yes we've focused on clean records but Josh Jackson was a clear risk when we drafted him so even that's not consistent.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,501
Reaction score
12,454
Location
Arizona
We've traded for injury risks before, we've signed them before. We've drafted and signed mental midgets and the emotionally immature before. AFAIC, doing something like that again is very Suns like. Yes we've focused on clean records but Josh Jackson was a clear risk when we drafted him so even that's not consistent.
You can try and compare those things but nothing comes close to getting Barkley or paying what we did for Nash which most teams were calling us crazy.

It's no coincidence that those two instances are the closest we have gotten to titles in modern Suns history. Making moves for Barkley, Nash and Durant are what a franchise like this must do. Most of our moves in 55 years have been much of the same outside of these 3.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,291
Reaction score
52,921
James Jones reportedly termed Kevin Durant's ankle injury as a moderate sprain per Duane Rankin.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,085
Reaction score
14,967
You can try and compare those things but nothing comes close to getting Barkley or paying what we did for Nash which most teams were calling us crazy.

It's no coincidence that those two instances are the closest we have gotten to titles in modern Suns history. Making moves for Barkley, Nash and Durant are what a franchise like this must do. Most of our moves in 55 years have been much of the same outside of these 3.
I disagree with your comment on how the Nash signing was viewed but I loved both of those decisions. And I would have been all for making a trade like the Barkley deal or a signing like we did with Steve Nash (or Tom Chambers or Cliff Robinson or even Danny Manning). They were smart business deals or in Manning's case, at least a reasonable risk IMO. This one is the opposite of a smart deal.

I'd have loved to add Kevin Durant but IMO with his cap crippling contract, his age and his injury history he should have been priced like damaged goods not like a prime aged superstar. And if we couldn't get him at a reasonable price, we should have passed.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,501
Reaction score
12,454
Location
Arizona
I disagree with your comment on how the Nash signing was viewed but I loved both of those decisions. And I would have been all for making a trade like the Barkley deal or a signing like we did with Steve Nash (or Tom Chambers or Cliff Robinson or even Danny Manning). They were smart business deals or in Manning's case, at least a reasonable risk IMO. This one is the opposite of a smart deal.

I'd have loved to add Kevin Durant but IMO with his cap crippling contract, his age and his injury history he should have been priced like damaged goods not like a prime aged superstar. And if we couldn't get him at a reasonable price, we should have passed.
The reports at the time is nobody came close to offering what the Suns did in money or years. He even had a partially guaranteed 6th year. Mark Cuban didn't want to overpay for Nash. Barkley was considered risky because of the off court stuff.

The Suns have been involved in so many offseason rumors but not one of them ended up being legit. 55 years of getting nowhere facilitiates moves you normally wouldn't make. The KD move was one of them. The first two didn't pan out. This one might not either but I love they tried to take a risk.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,085
Reaction score
14,967
The reports at the time is nobody came close to offering what the Suns did in money or years. He even had a partially guaranteed 6th year. Mark Cuban didn't want to overpay for Nash. Barkley was considered risky because of the off court stuff.

The Suns have been involved in so many offseason rumors but not one of them ended up being legit. 55 years of getting nowhere facilitiates moves you normally wouldn't make. The KD move was one of them. The first two didn't pan out. This one might not either but I love they tried to take a risk.
Apples and oranges. Barkley was still in or near his prime, as was Nash. They were the kind of risks that make sense to take. And both paid off handsomely for us although neither got us what we ultimately wanted. I'm not against risk. I just (clearly) consider this risk to be far greater than than you and most of the board does.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,501
Reaction score
12,454
Location
Arizona
Apples and oranges. Barkley was still in or near his prime, as was Nash. They were the kind of risks that make sense to take. And both paid off handsomely for us although neither got us what we ultimately wanted. I'm not against risk. I just (clearly) consider this risk to be far greater than than you and most of the board does.
I disagree. Many teams didn't want to go near Barkly. Many teams didn't want to pay Nash the kind of money including Cuban. Sounds like Apples to Apples. We shall see how this all turns out. You could end up being right if he can't be healthy.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,085
Reaction score
14,967
I disagree. Many teams didn't want to go near Barkly. Many teams didn't want to pay Nash the kind of money including Cuban. Sounds like Apples to Apples. We shall see how this all turns out. You could end up being right if he can't be healthy.
Nash was almost 30, had never ruptured his Achilles tendon and had played 70, 82, 82 and 80 games in his previous 4 seasons. Barkley was 29, had never ruptured his Achilles tendon and had played 82, 80, 68, 79, 79, 67, and 75 games in his 8 seasons. Durant is 34, has a repaired Achilles tendon and over the past 10 years has played 27, 72, 62, 68, 78, 0, 35, 55, 42 and 42 thus far this season. Apples and oranges to me.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,501
Reaction score
12,454
Location
Arizona
Nash was almost 30, had never ruptured his Achilles tendon and had played 70, 82, 82 and 80 games in his previous 4 seasons. Barkley was 29, had never ruptured his Achilles tendon and had played 82, 80, 68, 79, 79, 67, and 75 games in his 8 seasons. Durant is 34, has a repaired Achilles tendon and over the past 10 years has played 27, 72, 62, 68, 78, 0, 35, 55, 42 and 42 thus far this season. Apples and oranges to me.
Depends on your point of view. Nash was going to be 36 by the end of his contract and get a partially guaranteed 6th and was offered more money than any other team was willing to pay. Barkly had a hsitory off getting in trouble which is why many teams wouldn't go near them. KD is definitly the highest physical risk but it's not like the others things couldn't have derailed your team as well. They all could have.
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
16,227
Reaction score
11,239
Location
Tempe, AZ
Depends on your point of view. Nash was going to be 36 by the end of his contract and get a partially guaranteed 6th and was offered more money than any other team was willing to pay. Barkly had a hsitory off getting in trouble which is why many teams wouldn't go near them. KD is definitly the highest physical risk but it's not like the others things couldn't have derailed your team as well. They all could have.

Sure, all those moves could derail your team but only one of them was for a player at the very end of their prime years. You'd think by seeing first hand how fast and far Chris Paul has fallen off that the Suns wouldn't want to push all their chips in on a 1 maybe 2 year run with someone else but they did and the player they acquired isn't just nearing the end of their prime age but has been dealing with major injuries throughout his career. This deal is more akin to paying Amar'e instead of letting him go to New York than signing Nash or trading for Barkley. The talent is there, no one doubts KD's ability but his availability is a major issue and we paid a premium for him as if there weren't real questions about his age and injury history.
 
Last edited:

AZ Native

Living is Easy with Eyes Closed
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Posts
15,841
Reaction score
8,034
Location
Cave Creek
Nash was almost 30, had never ruptured his Achilles tendon and had played 70, 82, 82 and 80 games in his previous 4 seasons. Barkley was 29, had never ruptured his Achilles tendon and had played 82, 80, 68, 79, 79, 67, and 75 games in his 8 seasons. Durant is 34, has a repaired Achilles tendon and over the past 10 years has played 27, 72, 62, 68, 78, 0, 35, 55, 42 and 42 thus far this season. Apples and oranges to me.
I get where you are coming from Steve, and logically you are right. But I believe the Suns will win their first championship when least expected and with the most adversity.
I, like you have lived through them all. And it will come when we least expect it. Enjoy the ride.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
60,876
Reaction score
53,031
Location
SoCal
I disagree with your comment on how the Nash signing was viewed but I loved both of those decisions. And I would have been all for making a trade like the Barkley deal or a signing like we did with Steve Nash (or Tom Chambers or Cliff Robinson or even Danny Manning). They were smart business deals or in Manning's case, at least a reasonable risk IMO. This one is the opposite of a smart deal.

I'd have loved to add Kevin Durant but IMO with his cap crippling contract, his age and his injury history he should have been priced like damaged goods not like a prime aged superstar. And if we couldn't get him at a reasonable price, we should have passed.
Steve nash was definitely widely considered a risky move.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,085
Reaction score
14,967
Steve nash was definitely widely considered a risky move.
Most free agent signings bring risk. Nash's numbers were down a little from the previous season and we gave him a 6 year deal which many (but not all) pundits viewed as too risky given he was about to turn 30.

Cuban wanted to keep Nash, he just wouldn't go beyond a 4 year deal. Compared to the "risky" that we are talking about with Durant, they aren't anywhere near the same. And we didn't give up players and unprotected picks to make it happen, we just gave him a fair annual salary that was likely to extend a year or two beyond his effectiveness.
 

GatorAZ

feed hopkins
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Posts
24,534
Reaction score
16,834
Location
The Giant Toaster
I remember the Nash signing being about Amare’s development. Nobody thought he’d ever become MVP but we knew he was a great PG fit with our up and coming phenom PF. It didn’t excite anyone but I think it seemed like a smart plan-b signing in the moment. Unfortunately they had sold off picks in that draft because they thought they had a shot at signing Kobe but ended up with Q-Rich. Iggy or Deng on that squad with rookie contracts would’ve been so incredible even had they still traded JJ. Gets me down every time I think about it in hindsight.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,291
Reaction score
52,921
Steve nash was definitely widely considered a risky move.

It was simply a matter of the Suns being willing to give Nash more money than the Mavericks. So the risk was only measured in dollars.

The Suns didn't have to give up other assets.
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
16,227
Reaction score
11,239
Location
Tempe, AZ
I remember the Nash signing being about Amare’s development. Nobody thought he’d ever become MVP but we knew he was a great PG fit with our up and coming phenom PF. It didn’t excite anyone but I think it seemed like a smart plan-b signing in the moment. Unfortunately they had sold off picks in that draft because they thought they had a shot at signing Kobe but ended up with Q-Rich. Iggy or Deng on that squad with rookie contracts would’ve been so incredible even had they still traded JJ. Gets me down every time I think about it in hindsight.

The Suns weren't getting Kobe. They sold off their pick to free up money for Q-Rich and to make a run immediately. D'Antoni didn't like rookies and trading away that pick enabled us to offer Q a little more than midlevel money, which is all we needed to get him after signing Nash. Nash was the #1 plan because Kobe wasn't a real option. I think the Kobe talk was all a smokescreen of sorts because the Colangelo's and Sarver went to meet Nash at midnight when free agency started and all he was offered essentially capped us out.

They did trade away Marbury and Penny to free up cap space, which made sense because Amar'e needed the ball more and Nash was the right sort of PG to make it work. Marbury was a shoot first PG so moving him made sense once we knew Amar'e was a franchise player of sorts.
 

GatorAZ

feed hopkins
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Posts
24,534
Reaction score
16,834
Location
The Giant Toaster
The Suns weren't getting Kobe. They sold off their pick to free up money for Q-Rich and to make a run immediately. D'Antoni didn't like rookies and trading away that pick enabled us to offer Q a little more than midlevel money, which is all we needed to get him after signing Nash. Nash was the #1 plan because Kobe wasn't a real option. I think the Kobe talk was all a smokescreen of sorts because the Colangelo's and Sarver went to meet Nash at midnight when free agency started and all he was offered essentially capped us out.

They did trade away Marbury and Penny to free up cap space, which made sense because Amar'e needed the ball more and Nash was the right sort of PG to make it work. Marbury was a shoot first PG so moving him made sense once we knew Amar'e was a franchise player of sorts.
Kobe didn’t re-sign with the Lakers until mid-July. They were still deciding if they could get enough for Shaq to build around Kobe. My memory is foggy but the Suns could’ve offered a better deal to Orlando for T-Mac than they got from Houston. Kobe might’ve been a long shot but maybe it would’ve had to be a S&T with LA had they decided to keep Shaq.
 
Top