Deandre Ayton discussion

[Yuma]

I have been seeing enough blocked shots and offensive rebounds, dunks, to see that he is starting to get it. I was a bit perplexed that he was banging Porwell hard on offensive moves, but not the skinnier Stein. Then I noticed Stein tried to keep from bodying Ayton as much as possible. If he starts bodying up other centers like he was doing to Powell, I'd be fine with how he is playing. He needs to get to the FT line more, and fade away jumpers and hook shots won't do that!

 

[Dr. Jones]

He's still so young....... He's just got to avoid the seemingly inevitable layoffs we have seen.

20 and 15 is just so easy for him. I don't need Amare..... I just need consistent anger & aggression on the court.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Ok, Kyrie Irving. But you get my point.

While yes most NBA players care about their career there are numerous players that never amount to much at the NBA level simply because they don't care about getting better.

They are simply there to collect a paycheck and I remember there being some criticisms about Ayton at one point that he might be one of those guys.

The way he has responded this last handful of games or so seem to suggest that he in fact is not one of those guys that is just here to collect a paycheck and actually cares about becoming a better player.

 

[Chaplin]

While yes most NBA players care about their career there are numerous players that never amount to much at the NBA level simply because they don't care about getting better.

They are simply there to collect a paycheck and I remember there being some criticisms about Ayton at one point that he might be one of those guys.

The way he has responded this last handful of games or so seem to suggest that he in fact is not one of those guys that is just here to collect a paycheck and actually cares about becoming a better player.

I'm wondering about examples. Because while, yes, Damien Jones, for example, is not good, but he IS in the NBA and not the G League right now. I'm not sure there are many NBA players that only care about "collecting a paycheck". They constantly have to make sure they at least maintain their current level because they could easily be playing in Europe tomorrow.

Pro sports simply isn't something where people just "collect a paycheck". This isn't working at an insurance company after all, where there are potentially thousands of jobs out there in every city in the country.

In the NBA, there's something like 325 total positions in 28 cities. That's a pretty small number in the scheme of things.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Watching Jokic go ham against Utah (33 pts at the half) makes you appreciate the job Ayton did on him so much more. Gobert is widely considered the best big man defender and he's not able to slow Jokic down. Though, to be fair, a lot of it is coming against Favors and others off switches.

 

[Finito]

I'm wondering about examples. Because while, yes, Damien Jones, for example, is not good, but he IS in the NBA and not the G League right now. I'm not sure there are many NBA players that only care about "collecting a paycheck". They constantly have to make sure they at least maintain their current level because they could easily be playing in Europe tomorrow.

Pro sports simply isn't something where people just "collect a paycheck". This isn't working at an insurance company after all, where there are potentially thousands of jobs out there in every city in the country.

In the NBA, there's something like 325 total positions in 28 cities. That's a pretty small number in the scheme of things.

your looking at guys who fight to stay in the league. That’s not who you need to look at the guys that don’t care are the guys who are super talented and underachieve. The high draft picks that don’t pan out the guys who get paid and disappear

 

[Chaplin]

your looking at guys who fight to stay in the league. That’s not who you need to look at the guys that don’t care are the guys who are super talented and underachieve. The high draft picks that don’t pan out the guys who get paid and disappear

I still think that’s not true, but to each his own.

 

[Finito]

I still think that’s not true, but to each his own.

you think Josh Jackson cares about his career and how people see him?

 

[Chaplin]

you think Josh Jackson cares about his career and how people see him?

Absolutely yes. If it means money in his pocket, absolutely.

Being stupid doesn't mean you don't give a crap.

 

[Finito]

Absolutely yes. If it means money in his pocket, absolutely.

Being stupid doesn't mean you don't give a crap.

no that’s exactly what it means. If I care about something I’m not going to make decisions that jeopardize me losing it.

If I love and care about my craft I’m going to put in the work to get better at it, does he strike you as that type of guy?

we could name a million guys who had all the talent in the world and weren’t willing to put in the work to make it.

 

[Chaplin]

no that’s exactly what it means. If I care about something I’m not going to make decisions that jeopardize me losing it.

If I love and care about my craft I’m going to put in the work to get better at it, does he strike you as that type of guy?

we could name a million guys who had all the talent in the world and weren’t willing to put in the work to make it.

Call it semantics but it’s not “just a paycheck.”

 

[Finito]

Call it semantics but it’s not “just a paycheck.”

Sure thing

 

[Covert Rain]

It's starting to look like Ayton is never going to be the superstar center worthy of his draft position. Most of the leagues super star centers were scoring almost 20+ points out of the gate. Now granted this is a different league and we need his defense but the overall signs are looking more pedestrian. I mean based on where he was drafted I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to be a 20/12/2 guy night in and night out. In today's run and gun league that would be elite.

18/12/2 seems more achievable based on what we are seeing. Don't get me wrong, most teams would kill for that out of their center. Just not sure that will mean he ever lives up to where he was drafted. He is still young and learning but based on history of elite centers I think it's fair to say we will know who he is be end of season.

 

[Chaplin]

It's starting to look like Ayton is never going to be the superstar center worthy of his draft position. Most of the leagues super star centers were scoring almost 20+ points out of the gate. Now granted this is a different league and we need his defense but the overall signs are looking more pedestrian. I mean based on where he was drafted I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to be a 20/12/2 guy night in and night out. In today's run and gun league that would be elite.

18/12/2 seems more achievable based on what we are seeing. Don't get me wrong, most teams would kill for that out of their center. Just not sure that will mean he ever lives up to where he was drafted. He is still young and learning but based on history of elite centers I think it's fair to say we will know who he is be end of season.

You make it sound like every #1 pick in the past has become a mega-superstar. You are also saying that 20/12/2 is worthy of the #1 pick, but not 18/12/2? I'm not sure I agree with that. 2 points isn't that much in the scheme of things.

 

[Ronin]

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[Suns_fan69]

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He's doing this on pure athleticism/size. He didn't box out in any of those highlights. I'll have to pay more attention to his rebounding to see if this is just a victim of sample size.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

He's doing this on pure athleticism/size. He didn't box out in any of those highlights. I'll have to pay more attention to his rebounding to see if this is just a victim of sample size.

I'd say he has good rebounding instincts as well. Imo instincts are just as important, if not more so, than size and athleticism. I see a lot of big, athletic dudes that dont seem to have a clue how the ball is going to come off the rim. Rodman was the master of this and speaks to it in the Jordan documentary.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He's doing this on pure athleticism/size. He didn't box out in any of those highlights. I'll have to pay more attention to his rebounding to see if this is just a victim of sample size.

It’s something I’ve noticed. He’s a natural rebounder but isn’t a student of rebounding. He doesn’t box well and doesn’t know angles. If he ever gets the mental side (I know, not holding breath) he will be ripping 15/night.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'd say he has good rebounding instincts as well. Imo instincts are just as important, if not more so, than size and athleticism. I see a lot of big, athletic dudes that dont seem to have a clue how the ball is going to come off the rim. Rodman was the master of this and speaks to it in the Jordan documentary.

But it wasn’t just instincts for Rodman. He said he studied it. He knew where the rebound was going from where it hit the rim. He studied it. I’ll bet most casual fans are shocked to hear just how cerebral Rodman was. Nuts, but cerebral.

 

[Hoop Head]

I remember hearing Rodman talk about memorizing players shots and how many rotations the ball would make when certain guys shot it because that helped him know how hard it would bounce off the rim. He knew the angles well and which direction it would bounce but knowing how far it would bounce is just as important as direction but few found ways to determine bounce like him.

I think Isiah Thomas was also interviewed in the piece I saw and he said he was shocked Rodman knew that stuff but said Rodman would also help when they were off by telling them how they're putting too much strength behind a shot or were short arming it because they weren't getting their normal amount of rotations.

 

[elindholm]

But it wasn’t just instincts for Rodman. He said he studied it. He knew where the rebound was going from where it hit the rim. He studied it. I’ll bet most casual fans are shocked to hear just how cerebral Rodman was. Nuts, but cerebral.

Barkley said the same thing about anticipating caroms. But Barkley had to get to the spot in advance, whereas Rodman was such a fast jumper that it was enough for him to know where to aim for.

 

[Covert Rain]

You make it sound like every #1 pick in the past has become a mega-superstar. You are also saying that 20/12/2 is worthy of the #1 pick, but not 18/12/2? I'm not sure I agree with that. 2 points isn't that much in the scheme of things.

You are putting words in my mouth. Where did I say that? There is no team that picks #1 thinking that guy isn't going to be a superstar. That person is supposed to be the best young player in the world. I guess if it's a super bad draft you might have that pick knowing that person never will be but that is not normal.

In terms of stats...maybe. One block doesn't seem like much but there is usually a big difference between a player who average 1 verses 2 or even 3 blocks per game. I was looking at league wide stats in many categories and often it's just a few stat points in categories which separates the elite from the pack in the middle.

 

[jagu]

For such a talented player how does he never get to the FT line? He's a 70% FT shooter. If he ever shakes off his innate softness he's going to be a force and he'll get 20+ just with the free throws added in.

 

[JCSunsfan]

For such a talented player how does he never get to the FT line? He's a 70% FT shooter. If he ever shakes off his innate softness he's going to be a force and he'll get 20+ just with the free throws added in.

The nba is a perimeter game now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The nba is a perimeter game now.

Just not buying that excuse when guys like Jokic, Embiid, Anthony Davis and Gobert are the starting centers and either best player or second best player on the four best teams in the league right now. All of them range from 5.8-11 FT per game, even Gobert who has zero offensive game.

Ayton averages 2.8 FTs per game. I’ve never seen someone as big and athletic as him get blocked at the rim as much as he does.