Deandre Ayton discussion

Bobster

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Does that take into account whoever it was that was defending Adams?

Most likely George T. Johnson (who was a good enough defender to be named NBA All-Defensive team in 1980-81) and his backup, John Gianelli.

A 47/18/12/5 is what it is. It's an outlier obviously, but it was the greatest stat line in Suns' history.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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This is disappointing to read and counter to some narrative on Ayton in this board:


Shoot I lost the article. It essentially said that the suns are 20pts better per 100 possessions when Ayton is off the court.
 

Chaplin

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This is disappointing to read and counter to some narrative on Ayton in this board:


Shoot I lost the article. It essentially said that the suns are 20pts better per 100 possessions when Ayton is off the court.
I'm willing to bet that doesn't apply if you use just the last couple days. That's why it's so important that he develops consistency.
 

Proximo

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Comparing old nba to today just stupid. The talent level is 1000% higher and players asked to do different things. They should reset all stats and records every 30 years and look at them in eras.

The players definitely do different things - but saying the talent level is 1000% higher today is total BS.

If you mean there are much better shooters now, sure there are, there was no emphasis on shooting the 3 until recently.

But I tell you what - give me the dream team in their prime against today's best any day of the week.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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The players definitely do different things - but saying the talent level is 1000% higher today is total BS.

If you mean there are much better shooters now, sure there are, there was no emphasis on shooting the 3 until recently.

But I tell you what - give me the dream team in their prime against today's best any day of the week.
Not just the dream team bc doesn’t have to Americans.

magic
Jordan
Larry
Barkley
Olajawon

verses

curry
Harden
durant
Lebron
Jokic(?)
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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Not just the dream team bc doesn’t have to Americans.

magic
Jordan
Larry
Barkley
Olajawon

verses

curry
Harden
durant
Lebron
Jokic(?)
I think the depth of talent is better today (especially from an athleticism standpoint), but yeah the top end talent from the 80s-90s is better than the top end talent today.
 

Bobster

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Athleticism and shooting is much better today, but comparing across eras is pointless.

If Jokic played in the 70s he'd either play in the low post or be a top of the circle passer like Alvan Adams. A lot of the big men in todays game wouldn't thrive in the pre-three-pointer happy NBA. They'd be expected to battle in the post with players like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Artis Gilmore, Bob Lanier, Willis Reed and Dave Cowens.

The differences in the game aren't just the differences in how the game is played. Nutrition and medicine have advanced lightyears. Players get a lot more instruction at a younger age as AAU basketball is much more important than it used to be. How good would Jerry West and Oscar Robertson be if they grew up playing now? Or Connie Hawkins? Or how good would LeBron James and Kevin Durant be if they grew up in the segregated 50's and early 60's?

These are all impossible questions to answer, and while it's great fun to raise them and debate them, nobody's ever going to win that argument.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Athleticism and shooting is much better today, but comparing across eras is pointless.

If Jokic played in the 70s he'd either play in the low post or be a top of the circle passer like Alvan Adams. A lot of the big men in todays game wouldn't thrive in the pre-three-pointer happy NBA. They'd be expected to battle in the post with players like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Artis Gilmore, Bob Lanier, Willis Reed and Dave Cowens.

The differences in the game aren't just the differences in how the game is played. Nutrition and medicine have advanced lightyears. Players get a lot more instruction at a younger age as AAU basketball is much more important than it used to be. How good would Jerry West and Oscar Robertson be if they grew up playing now? Or Connie Hawkins? Or how good would LeBron James and Kevin Durant be if they grew up in the segregated 50's and early 60's?

These are all impossible questions to answer, and while it's great fun to raise them and debate them, nobody's ever going to win that argument.
You raise valid points. The interesting thing is, I think you could take the two teams I listed above and put them against each with both today’s rules and 80-90s rules and the old folks would win both. Of course that’s with each of the players on both sides being in their prime. I think people would be surprised how a Robinson and olajawon would eat up today’s centers offensively and be nimble enough to have to come out and defend stretch centers like jokic.
 

BC867

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Man. 26-17-5 is not enough for you all?
Empty stats. Ayton is not a difference maker. Especially
as the #1 pick and a Center.

And evidently the Suns coaching staff can't change that.

Despite his periodic empty proclamations, Ayton plays
soft because he thinks soft.

The Suns are not good enough to cover for that.
 

Hoop Head

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Empty stats. Ayton is not a difference maker. Especially
as the #1 pick and a Center.

And evidently the Suns coaching staff can't change that.

Despite his periodic empty proclamations, Ayton plays
soft because he thinks soft.

The Suns are not good enough to cover for that.

Did you watch the game that stat line was from? Apparently not if you think they were empty stats and not impactful. Ayton won that game for the Suns. I want to see it happen more often but there's no denying those were anything but empty stats, as you claim.
 

BC867

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Did you watch the game that stat line was from? Apparently not if you think they were empty stats and not impactful. Ayton won that game for the Suns. I want to see it happen more often but there's no denying those were anything but empty stats, as you claim.

I figured you were referring to my post, so I un-ignored this time.

I was referring to the season and our recent slide. Not just waiting for one exceptional game.

And I'll stick with my claim because strength and consistency help make players' teams better.
Not stats. How they do it is more important than what the individual numbers show.

Ayton finger rolls when he should be making a statement by slamming. He avoids contact and
doesn't draw his share of fouls/free throws. And he is a victim to steals, just as Andrew Lang
used to be by holding the ball low for Guards to pluck away.

Just looking at the stats doesn't reveal the necessary points of a Center's game.

As NBA seasons wind down and into the playoffs, refs favor power players. Which is why the
Suns have zero championships in their half century.

Regardless of pretty stats, Ayton only adds to the "finesse" reputation. And if any of the
coaches or players are trying to help him get to the next level, he is evidently not listening.
 

JCSunsfan

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Empty stats. Ayton is not a difference maker. Especially
as the #1 pick and a Center.

And evidently the Suns coaching staff can't change that.

Despite his periodic empty proclamations, Ayton plays
soft because he thinks soft.

The Suns are not good enough to cover for that.
I call bull___________

Ayton might not get the offensive stats many people want, but there is nothing empty about the stats he does get.
 

Cheesebeef

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Empty stats. Ayton is not a difference maker. Especially
as the #1 pick and a Center.

And evidently the Suns coaching staff can't change that.

Despite his periodic empty proclamations, Ayton plays
soft because he thinks soft.

The Suns are not good enough to cover for that.

Jesus. He looked every bit as good as those stats in that game. Anyone thinking otherwise didn’t watch the game or knows nothing about basketball.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I figured you were referring to my post, so I un-ignored this time.

I was referring to the season and our recent slide. Not just waiting for one exceptional game.

And I'll stick with my claim because strength and consistency help make players' teams better.
Not stats. How they do it is more important than what the individual numbers show.

Ayton finger rolls when he should be making a statement by slamming. He avoids contact and
doesn't draw his share of fouls/free throws. And he is a victim to steals, just as Andrew Lang
used to be by holding the ball low for Guards to pluck away.

Just looking at the stats doesn't reveal the necessary points of a Center's game.

As NBA seasons wind down and into the playoffs, refs favor power players. Which is why the
Suns have zero championships in their half century.

Regardless of pretty stats, Ayton only adds to the "finesse" reputation. And if any of the
coaches or players are trying to help him get to the next level, he is evidently not listening.
I think you haven’t watched his last three games. He’s not been finesse. And this is coming from ME!
 

Hoop Head

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I figured you were referring to my post, so I un-ignored this time.

I was referring to the season and our recent slide. Not just waiting for one exceptional game.

And I'll stick with my claim because strength and consistency help make players' teams better.
Not stats. How they do it is more important than what the individual numbers show.

Ayton finger rolls when he should be making a statement by slamming. He avoids contact and
doesn't draw his share of fouls/free throws. And he is a victim to steals, just as Andrew Lang
used to be by holding the ball low for Guards to pluck away.

Just looking at the stats doesn't reveal the necessary points of a Center's game.

As NBA seasons wind down and into the playoffs, refs favor power players. Which is why the
Suns have zero championships in their half century.

Regardless of pretty stats, Ayton only adds to the "finesse" reputation. And if any of the
coaches or players are trying to help him get to the next level, he is evidently not listening.


You replied to a specific stat line from the game the other day, a game where he was a beast. You haven't been watching lately and its fine to admit that rather than repeat the same old diatribe you typically do.
 

95pro

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I figured you were referring to my post, so I un-ignored this time.

I was referring to the season and our recent slide. Not just waiting for one exceptional game.

And I'll stick with my claim because strength and consistency help make players' teams better.
Not stats. How they do it is more important than what the individual numbers show.

Ayton finger rolls when he should be making a statement by slamming. He avoids contact and
doesn't draw his share of fouls/free throws. And he is a victim to steals, just as Andrew Lang
used to be by holding the ball low for Guards to pluck away.

Just looking at the stats doesn't reveal the necessary points of a Center's game.

As NBA seasons wind down and into the playoffs, refs favor power players. Which is why the
Suns have zero championships in their half century.

Regardless of pretty stats, Ayton only adds to the "finesse" reputation. And if any of the
coaches or players are trying to help him get to the next level, he is evidently not listening.

Aytons been slamming it home. Right now he’s the reason we are competing.
 

Covert Rain

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This is the Ayton we have all wanted. Look, he needs to do this night in and night out but this is why he was drafted. If we get this out of him on most nights it could change everything.
 

BC867

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I call bull___________

Ayton might not get the offensive stats many people want, but there is nothing empty about the stats he does get.
You used the word 'stats' twice in one sentence.

As I posted, it is not about stats in evaluating Ayton's
performance on the team.

Has he been a difference maker? By and large, no.

Has he been power in the post? No!

Has he done flaky things? Yes.

Except for a glimmer of hope, have we seen steady
growth? No. Despite his occasional proclamations

Until we do, he is disappointing Suns fans. As they
say, it ain't rocket science. He doesn't have to be
an All Star. Just solid in helping take us to the next
level. Game after game.
 

Hoop Head

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You used the word 'stats' twice in one sentence.

As I posted, it is not about stats in evaluating Ayton's
performance on the team.

Has he been a difference maker? By and large, no.

Has he been power in the post? No!

Has he done flaky things? Yes.

Except for a glimmer of hope, have we seen steady
growth? No. Despite his occasional proclamations

Until we do, he is disappointing Suns fans. As they
say, it ain't rocket science. He doesn't have to be
an All Star. Just solid in helping take us to the next
level. Game after game.


Speak for yourself and not all Suns fans because Ayton has looked really good the last 4 games. Its like the last break something or someone got.through to him. If he continues to play like he has then ill be happy with that development and if you visited game chats you would see a good majority of Suns fans here will be also. The latest losses don't fall on his shoulders. He's doing his part now, finally, but its a team game.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Speak for yourself and not all Suns fans because Ayton has looked really good the last 4 games. Its like the last break something or someone got.through to him. If he continues to play like he has then ill be happy with that development and if you visited game chats you would see a good majority of Suns fans here will be also. The latest losses don't fall on his shoulders. He's doing his part now, finally, but its a team game.
I’d say 3 1/2 games, but otherwise agree. We have been in a position to win the last 3 1/2 games because of his stats. They were impactful, as was his defense. If BC hasn’t been watching these games he’s missed what he’s been wanting outta him.


(Edited to redirect to BC)
 
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Mainstreet

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As noted, Ayton has taken a huge step forward the last four games. He is playing good defense, rebounding and finishing plays with authority like many of us always hoped he would. His defense on Murray's shot (where he traveled) to force overtime was tremendous.
 

BC867

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It's good to read these comments about Deandre.

It would be great if he's turned the corner and
could take some pressure off Book as a leader.
By example!
 

Carolinacacti

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It's good to read these comments about Deandre.

It would be great if he's turned the corner and
could take some pressure off Book as a leader.
By example!
BC, Ayton is never going to be one of these old players we use to see. Its a new game, hell look at Embrid he shoots outside and three pointers half the time. Ayton will be one of these new age centers and that's good for the Suns
 

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