RON_IN_OC
https://www.ronevansrealty.com
Well, if you are the team trading down, you are taking the larger haul of picks, all day long. So yes, the Cards would have had to sell the farm to move up 2 spots.
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Cowherd, Rosen, Murray
- Thread starter slanidrac16
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In case you were wondering.....this is what it cost the Bears to move up one spot in the 2017 Draft. If you want to take a guess at what it would cost to move up in the draft.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/04/27/chicago-bears-draft-trade-number-two-pick-mitchell-trubisky
Solar7
Go Suns
This is what people don't seem to get about it... the Chiefs deal was that much better. What do you think the Cardinals would have offered at best? A third round pick? Maybe their 2nd pick? Yes, the Bills had to move back 17 spots, but what would you rather do? Slide back 17 spots and add another 1st and a 3rd, or one measly pick?
The Cardinals couldn't just "give less," when there was an awesome offer on the table.
Edit: Plus we're glossing over the PR disaster the team would have had on their hands if we did hand over a boatload of picks for Mahomes at the time. A team still presumably in contention, with a few glaring holes, with a draft coming up where the QBs were supposed to be better the following year? We probably never would have heard of the Chiefs offer, and would wonder what the Cardinals were thinking.
GuernseyCard
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Solar7
Go Suns
Unfortunately this chart doesn't assign point values to next year's picks (which are also impossible to valuate with a chart on account of not knowing what pick you're getting - the Cardinals first last year would be worth more than the Chiefs, even though I know that's not the year we're talking about).
It's not a hard and fast rule anyways.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ardinals-didnt-want-to-force-quarterback-pick
His own words but keep making excuses boys.
His own words but keep making excuses boys.
Solar7
Go Suns
Nowhere in that article does he say "we didn't try to trade up."
What the eff is he supposed to say to the media? We really wanted a QB but other teams outbid us so we ended up with a consolation prize?
Hasaan Reddick was the top player on their board... a board that could have easily included Mahomes and Watson until they were picked. Here's an article with Arians saying they were looking at drafting one of Mahomes or Watson.
https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2018...rick-mahomes-or-deshaun-watson-in-2017-draft/
You’re giving Keim credit for sitting on his hands even if Arians is being truthful. Nowhere in that interview does it state the Cardinals tried to move up for a QB.
cardsfanmd
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Not true. Arians already went on record saying he wouldn’t have left if we had gotten Mahomes or Watson.
Solar7
Go Suns
No, but it's never going to come out because there's nothing good to be said to your fans or the player you drafted with "this guy wasn't who we actually wanted, we tried to get a much better player."
That's just going to make the player feel like crap, and the fans will think he sucks.
I have no doubt in my mind that Keim was on the phone discussing the possibilities and ultimately just couldn't pay the price of a first round pick, which was involved in both trades for Mahomes and Watson.
Cardinal
All Star
I remember when it came out on All or Nothing that we really wanted Ameer Abdullah instead of David Johnson. Of course, that came out after the season when we already knew David Johnson was going to be good. Wasn’t a good look for Keim though.
POISON
Formerly known as Okieguy
I'm not in the camp, and I'm not sold on him either. I got a feeling he gets traded....
Solar7
Go Suns
Yep. Luckily that's an example of things working out in our favor, but there's no reason a GM would want to lambast his player or how the moves he wanted to make didn't work out.
POISON
Formerly known as Okieguy
I was wanting him as well. Everyone on here was crowing that he was going against bad Big 12 defenses and blah, blah, blah....I knew he had a big time arm and was very athletic and mobile
GuernseyCard
ASFN Icon
Right. Cards trade him and take a $8m CAP hit
Why do you keep saying it would have cost a 1st round pick? It cost a Keim a 3rd and 5th to move up 5 spots for Rosen.
Solar7
Go Suns
Because both the Bills and Browns and the Browns had offers with first round picks on the table - that's how both teams ended up with Mahomes and Watson, respectively. That's an incredible offer, one that especially worked out for the Browns, yielding a top 5 pick.
We would have had to offer something enticing enough to overlook that first round pick - and a 3rd & 5th it wasn't. Those teams weren't going to go "well... you're closer, so we guess we'll take less." They would have needed much more.
Lots of speculation on your part Solar but I’ll play along. Cincinnati drafted John Ross at #9. You don’t think they would have entertained an offer to move down to #13 to add a couple picks and in all probability gotten their guy? Anyway I’m done we’ve hijacked this thread.
No on Murray.
Solar7
Go Suns
I don't think it's a lot of speculation to say "first rounders have more value than 3rd rounders." No, it's not impossible to fathom that Cincy would have moved back, but we'll never know. I don't think anyone expected the Chiefs to leapfrog from 27 to 10. The Cardinals were looking pretty good to get one of their two guys until that happened, and then they were out of luck. I never would have thought the Bills or Browns would move back with all of their needs at the time.
ARZCardinals
ASFN Lifer
If Murray drops Miami will move up to snag him
14 spots in round 1 is rather significant and you’re not taking that into consideration.
DRM08
Veteran
While you guys are debating whether the Cardinals needed to be more aggressive, Buffalo is the one that should really be kicking themselves. They could have picked Mahomes #10 and a year later they ended up with a worse version of him named Josh Allen.
And gave up quite a bit to get him. Glenn and 2 second round picks. Beane’s a dip****
I’m just pissed because Mahomes and Watson were there for the taking.
Solar7
Go Suns
I mean, I get it, that's a significant move. But it's not the difference between a first round pick and a 3rd round pick move. Especially when you're rolling the dice on that pick being incredibly great (like the Browns received).
The only point here is that the Cardinals would have had to offer up a LOT to make up this difference. A lot for an organization that believed they were still prepared for a rebound year, an organization that would have been run through the mud if they gave up that much for a few spots of a jump and ended up with a QB that didn't pan out.
Hindsight is 20/20, and we now know they're pretty damn good, but all the talk at the time then was "wait until next year."
Cardinal
All Star
And if only we didn’t win BA’s last game in Seattle, we would’ve been able to draft Mahomes or Watson instead of Reddick.
I wonder if the players would’ve played as hard for BA if they knew he was going to coach Tampa Bay two years later.
I wonder if the players would’ve played as hard for BA if they knew he was going to coach Tampa Bay two years later.
