Couple of questions

[conraddobler]

Just a couple of general questions I've had for a long time:

Why can't we ever run a consistent screen pass play?

Is there anyone on the team in terms of coaches/managment in charge of scouting us as an opponent would?

It seems to me that these two things are curiously absent and have been for years.

Personally I'd want to invest a lot of energy into developing a group of people who schemed to beat me and perhaps every week attempted to take on the persona of the team I'm about to play so that they could perhaps provide insight as to what our teams weaknesses are and how it could be fixed before the game.

As to the screen pass issue, who runs a really good one?

Has anyone tried to figure out why ours suck so bad?

Why would a pass first team not know how to run a killer screen pass? It's obvious and has been for years that when we pass the other teams are keying on knowing it's likely to be a pass that's why we have such a savage rush from a lot of teams.

Who's in charge of trying to figure out what we can do to counter that when they do that?

We did run some draws that worked, but we rarely do this and when we do it rarely work like it did but screen passes work even better and we rarely do those.

I guess we did try one and Beanie dropped the ball but that's part of execution which in general just always sucks on our screen pass attempts.

I have never figured out how come we can't do one.

 

[Duckjake]

Why can't we ever run a consistent screen pass play?

My theory is that our linemen can't hold their blocks on a regular pass so on the screen the Defense is by them so quickly, and of course there's always the unblocked outside rusher, that the QB has to throw the ball before the screen has developed properly. Everyone is still too close to the QB.

Anyway that's what I think I saw watching the last few games.

 

[Shane]

I know why we couldn't run two of them successfully last sunday. Beanie couldnt catch the dam ball. On both occasion he would have had plenty of room to run and he just dropped the passes.

 

[conraddobler]

I know why we couldn't run two of them successfully last sunday. Beanie couldnt catch the dam ball. On both occasion he would have had plenty of room to run and he just dropped the passes.

That's all part of coaching.

A screen pass is one of the most highly coached plays there are IMO, because the entire team has to do what they are asked to, to get one done.

So if he can't catch the ball why is he in there when we run one?

Why can't we work this issue out?

It's always something and that's my point, it's a play, it's largely the same every time, how can we fail to get this right?

 

[conraddobler]

My theory is that our linemen can't hold their blocks on a regular pass so on the screen the Defense is by them so quickly, and of course there's always the unblocked outside rusher, that the QB has to throw the ball before the screen has developed properly. Everyone is still too close to the QB.

Anyway that's what I think I saw watching the last few games.

That's pretty much what always happens, a jail break and/or defenders inside the screen that totally jacks it up.

It's not an easy play to run, actually they require a lot of things to go right but these are professionals after all.

It's just incredible that this play continues to elude us, they have all offseason and years to try and figure this out and they never do.

Some teams run it very well and provide great tape on this, all you have to do you'd think is study that, design the play and then run it.

I guess it's not that simple.

 

[Shane]

That's all part of coaching.

A screen pass is one of the most highly coached plays there are IMO, because the entire team has to do what they are asked to, to get one done.

So if he can't catch the ball why is he in there when we run one?

Why can't we work this issue out?

It's always something and that's my point, it's a play, it's largely the same every time, how can we fail to get this right?

Beanie has been a pro football Rb for 3 years. He should be able to catch a screen pass and be counted on to do so. Even if the ball is thrown a little hard. just like he should be counted on to correctly handle a pitch placed in his hands. Its lack of concentration not coaching.

 

[conraddobler]

Beanie has been a pro football Rb for 3 years. He should be able to catch a screen pass and be counted on to do so. Even if the ball is thrown a little hard. just like he should be counted on to correctly handle a pitch placed in his hands. Its lack of concentration not coaching.

I just don't see how you can say it's not coaching.

It's always coaching, players aren't perfect they make mistakes but consistent failure to perform in any task is a failure of coaching, either for not teaching them how to do the task or asking them to do something they clearly suck at doing.

Concentration when catching a football is a learnable thing and if the player can't learn that then the player shouldn't be asked to do it, those are kind of your options there.

If there's enough things they can't do they're worthless to a team and should be cut.

I'd prefer to teach him how to catch the ball, and how to concentrate.

I just don't buy he's incapable of it.

 

[Shane]

I just don't see how you can say it's not coaching.

It's always coaching, players aren't perfect they make mistakes but consistent failure to perform in any task is a failure of coaching, either for not teaching them how to do the task or asking them to do something they clearly suck at doing.

Concentration when catching a football is a learnable thing and if the player can't learn that then the player shouldn't be asked to do it or cut or benched, those are kind of your options there.

I'd prefer to teach him how to catch the ball, and how to concentrate.

I just don't buy he's incapable of it.

I don't see how you can just say its coaching and not place blame on a so called professional who has to have some personal accountability. Especially in a game he has played since he was about 5??

Beanie knows how to catch a football we have seen him do it. He doesn't need to be coached on it. He just needs to do it.

 

[conraddobler]

I don't see how you can just say its coaching and not place blame on a so called professional who has to have some personal accountability. Especially in a game he has played since he was about 5??

Beanie knows how to catch a football we have seen him do it. He doesn't need to be coached on it. He just needs to do it.

That's IMO a gigantic assumption and a mistake IMO to assume any player even a pro knows how to do something as simple as catch a ball.

Bill Parcells used to love working with new punt returners himself, and a lot of them had been doing it since pee wee football.

However there is a correct way to do it and there is the way that everyone else does it and apparently Beanie DOSEN'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT or he would.

That's IMO what's going on, people aren't truly focusing on how he catches the ball, something about his approach to it is wrong or he'd be better at it than he is.

That's coaching.

We've all seen players turned around by coaching, it can happen, not catching a ball right is a failure of coaching and you should never assume a player knows how to do it, cause a lot of them don't.

You can for sure assume our players as a whole have no idea how to run a screen pass, they obviously don't know how, and that would take someone who's a great teacher of screen passes a while to iron out.

Walking through the play until people can do it in their sleep is a good first step to doing one right, then practice it until they puke then do one in a game.

Keep going over it until it's right.

 

[Shane]

That's IMO a gigantic assumption and a mistake IMO to assume any player even a pro knows how to do something as simple as catch a ball.

Bill Parcells used to love working with new punt returners himself, and a lot of them had been doing it since pee wee football.

However there is a correct way to do it and there is the way that everyone else does it and apparently Beanie DOSEN'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT or he would.

That's IMO what's going on, people aren't truly focusing on how he catches the ball, something about his approach to it is wrong or he'd be better at it than he is.

That's coaching.

Nope. The kid has been catching footballs for about 15 years at least. We have seen him catch the ball on 21 separate occasions in his NFL career. He knows how to do it. He just loses concentration. Same way in 3 seasons I have personally seen him flat drop simple pitches from the QB on at least 5 occasions 3 times in games. He just doesnt focus. Its clear and evident.

If you think in game focus can be taught then I will agree with you. But its not a fundamental issue of not knowing how to catch it. He has those fundamentals and knows how. He doesn't need to be coached on it.

You tell me how you take the anxiety out of the kid and get him to focus better?

 

[Duckjake]

I just don't see how you can say it's not coaching.

It's always coaching, players aren't perfect they make mistakes but consistent failure to perform in any task is a failure of coaching, either for not teaching them how to do the task or asking them to do something they clearly suck at doing.

Concentration when catching a football is a learnable thing and if the player can't learn that then the player shouldn't be asked to do it, those are kind of your options there.

If there's enough things they can't do they're worthless to a team and should be cut.

I'd prefer to teach him how to catch the ball, and how to concentrate.

I just don't buy he's incapable of it.

On the screen if the QB has to throw the ball early the RB is not set to catch it making it a more difficult task. Just like having too many people in the area when your screen doesn't have time to get enough spread from the QB allows Defenders to simply turn and make a tackle or bat down the ball, or distract the receiver (any which is what happens far too often on our Screen attempts.

Funny though that both Hightower and Wells had trouble catching the ball last year and now with a different QB Wells is still struggling.

 

[Jasper]

One reason is the defense only needs 4 rushers to pass our o-line to pressure Kolb. If they rush 5 it means 1 guy is already in the backfield chasing Kolb or in his face. That leaves about half the defense just waiting.

Total opposite is our defense, we can't get to the QB with 6 players blitzing.

 

[conraddobler]

I think an inablity to run a screen pass probably is a symptom of a lot of other things in an offense.

When the Chiefs had Priest holmes going and an all pro line they did screens like they should be done, ours look like someone tossed a skunk into church.

 

[Duckjake]

I think an inablity to run a screen pass probably is a symptom of a lot of other things in an offense.

When the Chiefs had Priest holmes going and an all pro line they did screens like they should be done, ours look like someone tossed a skunk into church.

Good description. But I still think its a result of our linemen letting the rushers get past them too quickly. If I'm not mistaken we tried to run a screen Sunday where Kolb had to throw the ball away the rushers were on him so fast.

I'm going to look for that play again tonight on nfl.com game rewind.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Ironically we have a qb who came from a squad that utilizes the screen as a staple.