Charmin Marvin Harrison Jr Thread

[PACardsFan]

Dude doesn’t know plays and gives up on routes.

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Both interceptions last night were because of MHJ. They said last night that 6 of Murray’s picks last year were on passes to Marv. And that was the highest number between a QB/WR combo in the league last year. And yet you don’t hear Murray openly criticizing the kid. That’s leadership, and Murray should be given credit for taking arrows that he doesn’t deserve.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

drops 2 passes against frisco

"I have to do better"

causes 2 picks against seattle

 

[Chopper0080]

drops 2 passes against frisco

"I have to do better"

causes 2 picks against seattle

I only credit him with 1. The first int was a pick regardless. I agree with Kurt when he states MHJ seemed to see Kyler scrambling and stopped to work back to that side of the field.

 

[kerouac9]

Kyler and Marv were just a catastrophic mismatch. Marv isn’t working on what he’s good at—running smooth, sudden, accurate routes—because Kyler doesn’t care about that. Marv has to get vibes or something and work to get really really open and show Kyler his numbers.

These back-shoulder throws look really impressive in part because it seems like Charmin always has to turn for them because he’s not expecting that placement.

 

[BritCard]

I think you’re mistaken to absolve a receivers poor play on a qb’s poor play. Does the qb impact the receivers numbers? Absolutely. But to come up with excuses why a receivers poor play makes god awful drops is just pursuing an agenda.

It's a well established fact that a bad QB can adversely affect a WR's confidence. History is littered with examples. Especially a young, high pick that feels a pressure to perform, as Marv does.

I'm not absolving Marv of blame, he has things he needs to fix, but also it's not fair to judge him with this QB.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Kyler and Marv were just a catastrophic mismatch. Marv isn’t working on what he’s good at—running smooth, sudden, accurate routes—because Kyler doesn’t care about that. Marv has to get vibes or something and work to get really really open and show Kyler his numbers.

These back-shoulder throws look really impressive in part because it seems like Charmin always has to turn for them because he’s not expecting that placement.

so marv can't freestyle? id probably agree with that - sticks to his route even if he's smothered and covered instead of breaking off nabers style

 

[BritCard]

That’s also very much a chicken and eggs scenario. Decent receivers would get Kyle or another 75 to 100 yards per game.

Harrison alone, if he would actually run routes and catch balls would get most of that additional yardage for Kyler

It’s very clear that Kyler does not trust his wide receivers and he has an absolute reason to feel that way.

Some of these routes that Harrison can’t run McBride has no problem getting open and getting completions

I've watched Marv get open downfield a bunch and I've watched Kyler not throw him the ball. Not much Marv can do about that.

 

[BritCard]

Because everything is Kyler’s fault in his eyes.

Is Kyle the greatest quarterback?

No, he’s a mid quarterback

But when you look at the catches that Pearsall last week and Cupp and other receivers made this week. Those were not perfect throws, but the wide receiver adjusted and made the catches.

About the only real adjustment catch the Cardinals made this week was Wilson’s first down catch which was spectacular

When Kyler can throw a dig with 8 yards of anticipation on the pass and release the ball as the WR is just entering his break, and have the ball hit him perfectly in stride, then you might have a point.

 

[BritCard]

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I typed this exact thing this morning and deleted it because I didn't want to argue the point with people keen to pile on Marv.

When I first watched it I thought Marv broke off his route because he thought Kyler was scrambling. I still thought Marv could have attacked the route better though.

 

[Russ Smith]

There is a difference between bad quarterback play and a quarterback averaging less than 6 yards/attempt. You're not gonna have 15 yards per catch when your quarterback is a checkdown king. And it doesn't matter how open you are downfield when your quarterback prefers a 5-yard dump off.

I'm really not concerned about Marv in the exact same way that I wasn't concerned about Trey McBride when this board was going off on what a wasted pick he was. I said then that Trey had all the talent to be successful but that he was struggling with poor quarterback play, and I think the same of Marv.

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The problem with the McBride comparison is he was injured as a rookie had a back problem and was just nowhere near 100%. Marv isn't hurt

 

[Russ Smith]

I typed this exact thing this morning and deleted it because I didn't want to argue the point with people keen to pile on Marv.

When I first watched it I thought Marv broke off his route because he thought Kyler was scrambling. I still thought Marv could have attacked the route better though.

So he broke off the route because Kyler was scrambling to do what? He didn't come back to give Kyler a target he just stopped, and Kyler didn't know he was going to do that he was throwing the ball right when he stopped. It was on both of them but Warner wasn't absolving Marv he was saying the reason the INT looked so bad is Marv broke off the route, the question is why

 

[BritCard]

The problem with the McBride comparison is he was injured as a rookie had a back problem and was just nowhere near 100%. Marv isn't hurt

Those conversations were going on well into his 2nd year. Trey had 79 yards through the first 5 weeks and the thread here was done with him.

 

[Russ Smith]

I only credit him with 1. The first int was a pick regardless. I agree with Kurt when he states MHJ seemed to see Kyler scrambling and stopped to work back to that side of the field.

But he didn't work back?

I have no idea who this guy is but the video is overhead so it's a good angle to watch. Marv does NOT work back, he stops, period he just quits on the play. The best angle to see it is about 53 seconds into the video, Kyler is throwing the ball and as he does that, Marv just flat stops, but he's not trying to sit down in a hole(it's not zone), and he's not coming back to Kyler, he's not even trying to block if he thinks Kyler is running, he just decides the ball is not coming to me, so he quits.

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[BritCard]

So he broke off the route because Kyler was scrambling to do what? He didn't come back to give Kyler a target he just stopped, and Kyler didn't know he was going to do that he was throwing the ball right when he stopped. It was on both of them but Warner wasn't absolving Marv he was saying the reason the INT looked so bad is Marv broke off the route, the question is why

I think he stopped to block, then realised Kyler was throwing.

He wasn't going to scramble for a pass because Kyler was running through the A gap.

 

[Russ Smith]

Those conversations were going on well into his 2nd year. Trey had 79 yards through the first 5 weeks and the thread here was done with him.

I certainly wasn't and I'm wondering if maybe having someone else starting in front of him as the #1 TE had something to do with that? ANd that Kyler was out injured and Josh Dobbs was playing QB? Ertz had 22catches in the first 5 games. Then the combination of eventually getting Kyler back, and ertz getting injured led to McBride getting way more reps and surprise he was much better, and when kyler became the QB surprise, he was even better.

There was no such issue for Marv he wasn't injured and he was handed the starting job, he didn't have to compete for PT with a guy who had over 700 career NFL catches

 

[Russ Smith]

I think he stopped to block, then realised Kyler was throwing.

He wasn't going to scramble for a pass because Kyler was running through the A gap.

I just posted an overhead video, didn't stop to block, he just stopped, he made no effort to block at all.

 

[PACardsFan]

But he didn't work back?

I have no idea who this guy is but the video is overhead so it's a good angle to watch. Marv does NOT work back, he stops, period he just quits on the play. The best angle to see it is about 53 seconds into the video, Kyler is throwing the ball and as he does that, Marv just flat stops, but he's not trying to sit down in a hole(it's not zone), and he's not coming back to Kyler, he's not even trying to block if he thinks Kyler is running, he just decides the ball is not coming to me, so he quits.

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Agree 100%. It’s a well known fact that young WR’s do not like going over the middle. Fitz flat out refused to do so his first 2-3 years in the league. Warner has told that story a bunch of times. But, we had Anquan to do that, so it didn’t bog down the offense. MHJ will never be like Fitz and flat out say no, but it’s not what he’s currently good at. All you had to do was look at the next pass that Murray threw to him over the middle that he bobbled and it was intercepted. He wanted nothing to do with getting popped and it was obvious. Did everyone notice that after that in the 4th quarter the Cardinals only threw to him on the sidelines. Until his game is fully developed, if they want him to be comfortable in every situation, they better find out what he likes and doesn’t like. Or what he’s currently good at and not good at. Hopefully, the full package comes sooner rather than later. But, the OL & the development of MHJ are huge reasons why this offense is struggling.

 

[BritCard]

I just posted an overhead video, didn't stop to block, he just stopped, he made no effort to block at all.

Yeah because by the time he stops it's clear Kyler is throwing it.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah because by the time he stops it's clear Kyler is throwing it.

So did he stop to block or not? You said you thought he stopped to block but clearly he didn't.

People keep complaining Kyler won't lead someone on passes that play was a perfect example why. Looks like an absolutely horrible pick until you notice that the guy he was throwing it to JUST STOPPED, as the video says.

Marv HAS to get better for the current offense to succeed. If you play 3 TE's you only have 1 WR on the field that guy HAS to be able to beat his man and get big plays. Look at Seattle last night when they needed it, JSN beat Max and got key plays. Marv finally did on the last 2 drives and hopefully that continues but he's been a huge part of our offense being so bad, he's just not good enough yet.

His drops were a primary reason we lost to SF, he outright caused one and played a huge role in the other pick last night which again contributed greatly to us losing.

Really hope that was the breaking point for him and he's gotten it out of his head, we need him

 

[Dback Jon]

I just posted an overhead video, didn't stop to block, he just stopped, he made no effort to block at all.

Yes, it’s very clear for anyone to notice. Well, anyone who isn’t trying to place 100% of blame on Kyler for everything.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yes, it’s very clear for anyone to notice. Well, anyone who isn’t trying to place 100% of blame on Kyler for everything.

I mean I'm 100% ok with moving on from Kyler I just again think it's silly to invent things to blame him for when there are so many legit things to blame him for.

 

[Dback Jon]

I mean I'm 100% ok with moving on from Kyler I just again think it's silly to invent things to blame him for when there are so many legit things to blame him for.

That’s just it Kyler is a mid quarterback
He’s better than about a third of the league at worst and if the Cardinals cut them, he would be a starter somewhere else

But there are so many things wrong with the offense that Kyler is not even close to being the number one issue

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

kyler isn't the only one with a dog

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[PACardsFan]

I mean I'm 100% ok with moving on from Kyler I just again think it's silly to invent things to blame him for when there are so many legit things to blame him for.

Move on to what???? Kyler is making great decisions based on the issues facing this offense (OL playing poorly, no WR1, no RB1). Murray’s stat line last week against the Niners in a road game should have read 4 touchdowns 0 interceptions, 0 turnovers. No one can argue that. And last night, it was also obvious that BOTH picks were on MHJ. They even stated last night that MHJ has been responsible for multiple picks that Murray has had to take arrows for over the last 2 years. This is not meant to be a dig against MHJ. I think he’s a great kid & I pray he turns things around asap.

Bad OL, no WR1, no RB1, really no WR2 or WR3. He has a GREAT TE, but any average DC can figure out how to minimize a great TE when everything else I mentioned is missing. And yet, he still rallied us back late. For the time being, we can only hope that bodies come back on the D & they can keep us in games until MHJ develops into what we can only hope and pray he may be.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's a well established fact that a bad QB can adversely affect a WR's confidence. History is littered with examples. Especially a young, high pick that feels a pressure to perform, as Marv does.

I'm not absolving Marv of blame, he has things he needs to fix, but also it's not fair to judge him with this QB.

Sorry not buying this. Some great receivers have played with mid QBs and didn’t do what we’re seeing from MHJ.

Fitz had terrible QBs for a lot of his career. Same with boldin. Who were Julio’s QBs? Nabers? Megatron? Andre Johnson? Deandre Hopkins? Steve smith? Brandon Marshall?