Charmin Marvin Harrison Jr Thread

[Krangodnzr]

I hope he does. The thing is we had our pick of Wr's in last years draft, we took Marv, there were 2 speed guys in that first round that went after him. and a year later we're actually in a position where either Burden or Golden could be in play for us if the edge or DT we want is not there in round 1. Not all Marvs' fault, we don't have a great WR room beyond him either, but at least as a rookie he wasn't the best WR in his class and was maybe 4th. Thomas and Nabers were clearly better, I would argue McConkey was too and if you expand beyond just WR to pass catchers, Bowers was better too.

One thing to consider though is that Murray clearly looked to McBride when he needed a completion more often all the other rookies essentially didn't have a high level veteran to be the go to guy save Odunze.

 

[Russ Smith]

Do you really think NFL scouts didn't have a 40 time on Marvin prior to him being drafted because he didn't run at the combine?????
He ran a 4.38 at the OSU pro day his sophomore year.

They don't take times at pro days as gospel because they're almost always faster than they are at the combine. Ohio State is notorious for having faster times at their pro day. Braxton Miller was the gold standard ran 4.51 at the combine and then ran a 4.33 at the pro day.

Combine times are electronic, almost all pro days are hand timed and they're almost always faster, I would say always but I'm sure if I looked hard enough I could find a kid who ran faster at the combine.

Marv didn't run because his people correctly assumed he wouldn't run fast enough to help him his time could only hurt him if he ran slow

 

[Russ Smith]

I like my sources better on what scouts do and do not know and leave it at that.

I didn’t do an internet search like you obviously did.
There’s also a timed, according to the internet, 4.46 that he ran in high school. Did he get slower in college? That’d be weird.

You can't say timed you have to say hand timed or electronic timed. Hand timed is almost always faster.

 

[Russ Smith]

I do like MHJ’s height advantage in the red zone.

That was actually the weird thing to me. I agree with K9 he probably had more TD's than you would have expected given his overall season. And several of them were terrific catches. He also dropped at least 3 in the endzone and a couple more right in front of the end zone. We very rarely saw him go up and highpoint a ball.

He has clear areas to improve on, get tougher contested catches were not his thing last year, get better after the catch, his lack of YAC was alarming, he and Kyler have to get on the same page on the back shoulder stuff that was a problem all year.

 

[Russ Smith]

One thing to consider though is that Murray clearly looked to McBride when he needed a completion more often all the other rookies essentially didn't have a high level veteran to be the go to guy save Odunze.

Oh I agree but he did have chances too. I am certainly not saying he sucks or he's slow, I'm saying he's not as fast as we expected him to be based on the reports coming out of college. One game ok maybe he was sick against Buffalo, but by the end of the year the only times he was running by anybody was when he faked them out or they fell down or blew a coverage.

I think he can probably get faster my concern is we were told that's what he and his dad were working on when he wasn't working out for scouts

 

[Krangodnzr]

Oh I agree but he did have chances too. I am certainly not saying he sucks or he's slow, I'm saying he's not as fast as we expected him to be based on the reports coming out of college. One game ok maybe he was sick against Buffalo, but by the end of the year the only times he was running by anybody was when he faked them out or they fell down or blew a coverage.

I think he can probably get faster my concern is we were told that's what he and his dad were working on when he wasn't working out for scouts

I think he was thinking too much.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think he was thinking too much.

That's my hope but then you would have assumed as the season went on that would have gone away but it really didn't.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Here’s all the more I’m going to say on the ridiculous Marvin is slow concept.

Do you really think it’s logical that a top 5 WR draft pick was selected by any team that didn’t know their speed/40 time?
You really think a guy who “reportedly” ran a 4.6 to 4.75 is going top 5. That’s completely ridiculous.
FFS, have some common sense. The first thing scouts look at is speed.

 

[HairZach]

Here’s all the more I’m going to say on the ridiculous Marvin is slow concept.

Do you really think it’s logical that a top 5 WR draft pick was selected by any team that didn’t know their speed/40 time?
You really think a guy who “reportedly” ran a 4.6 to 4.75 is going top 5. That’s completely ridiculous.
FFS, have some common sense. The first thing scouts look at is speed.

I think thats exactly what happened. Marv didn't run a 40 and while there is GPS data, its not very accurate for getting a time.

Marvin didnt do a private workout for our scouts, he told Monti he wasn't going to test, allegedly so he could work on "football skills" instead. Monti was fine with it. It sounds like we didn't have any thoughts that Nabers might be better or we would have taken his elite production and elite testing instead.

The last recorded times Marvin had were at the ESPN Recruiting Combine, where his best was a 4.6. The ESPN recruiting combine uses a laser and this testing was done after Marv's supposed hand tested 4.45.

Football Recruiting - Marvin Harrison Jr. - Player Profiles - ESPN

Learn about Marvin Harrison Jr. and other recruit player profiles on RecruitingNation.com.

www.espn.com

Now everyone assumed his 40 got faster during his 3 years in college, but there's no proof that it did. It takes a lot of concentrated work to get down to the 4.4's, if he wasn't focusing on his track speed I doubt it happened. I'm not saying Marvin isn't fast enough to be an NFL player, but he doesnt have elite speed. We knew that before the draft, his speed was a knock on his profile. Same thing with his terrible YAC.

 

[cardsfanmd]

This is such a low bar to clear, tho. No one should be planting their flag and setting their goal at approx. 24th in yardage and 23rd in receptions.

We're gonna need more than that.

I think Charmin kind of overperformed in TDs last season. Eight receiving TDs was T-13 in the NFL; 10 or more TDs would have placed him in the top eight. I think you can expect McBride to have more than two TDs; those are going to have to come from somewhere.

You want Charmin to get more efficient. The rough heuristic I like to use is fantasy position ranking, since it aggregates receptions, yards, and TDs into one tidy number. He was WR26 last year. I'd like to see him move into WR10-16 kind of territory.

Sorry, pal. Not tonight.

As usual, you created a false narrative in your head regarding my comment and then presented as factual.

1. There was a + sign at the end of those numbers I listed. That’s means those numbers or better.

2. You’re listing them individually when my post clearly expressed them happening concurrently. There wasn’t 23 or 24 WR’s in the league who accomplished all 3 of the numbers I posted. There were 4. Those 4 were Terry McLauren, Amon Ra St Brown, Mike Evans and Jamar Chase. With your relentless pursuit of stat checking to feed ann infallible desire to play devil’s advocate, though, I’m sure you knew this. Does the board, or more importantly, the team, need more than that from a 2nd year player?

Furthermore, as a matter of precedent, I try not to engage grown men who call other men they’ve never met outside of their name; especially ones young enough to be their child, with derogatory crap that isn’t remotely based in reality.

You can cry that I’m calling out your fandom, I really don’t gaf. I’d rather be known for that than ridiculing a 22 year old kid who is out there busting his butt to help the team this board is built around.

 

[cardsfanmd]

I mean, when you’re wrong you’re wrong. Unless you’re K-9 and you just run off to find someone else to try and invalidate lol.

 

[Russ Smith]

Here’s all the more I’m going to say on the ridiculous Marvin is slow concept.

Do you really think it’s logical that a top 5 WR draft pick was selected by any team that didn’t know their speed/40 time?
You really think a guy who “reportedly” ran a 4.6 to 4.75 is going top 5. That’s completely ridiculous.
FFS, have some common sense. The first thing scouts look at is speed.

I don't know but the only source that he ever ran a sub 4.5 is some statement that he ran it at an OSU pro day, again NFL teams do not accept pro day times because they know they're going to be faster than the kid really is, not just OSU, anybody. The 22mph thing is impressive, but there's a reason NFL teams look at 40's and not how many MPH's a kid can run at say 100 yards, they're looking for what translates to football.

Is he slow compared to the average human, no, is he fast compared to most elite NFL WR's, so far the answer is no.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Played golf yesterday with former OSU and NFL receiver, Devier Posey. He’s still close to OSU and fills in occasionally on local radio shows about the Buckeyes.
We got talking about Marvin and I told him some people thinks he runs 4.6-4.7 40.
He literally busted out in laughter. Said Marv was the fastest player on the team. As part of Mickey Marriotti, the strength and conditioning coach, regiments is competitive 40s.
Marv routinely ran in the 4.3 range.

 

[daves]

Marv routinely ran in the 4.3 range.

I would love to see him start showing that on an NFL field!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Played golf yesterday with former OSU and NFL receiver, Devier Posey. He’s still close to OSU and fills in occasionally on local radio shows about the Buckeyes.
We got talking about Marvin and I told him some people thinks he runs 4.6-4.7 40.
He literally busted out in laughter. Said Marv was the fastest player on the team. As part of Mickey Marriotti, the strength and conditioning coach, regiments is competitive 40s.
Marv routinely ran in the 4.3 range.

I think Marvin was just thinking too much and that's understandable considering how the high expectations that were placed on him.

He'll be a great player for the Cardinals long term.

 

[DaHilg]

I think Marvin was just thinking too much and that's understandable considering how the high expectations that were placed on him.

He'll be a great player for the Cardinals long term.

Agreed.. although the biggest concern for me was his lack of aggressiveness when the ball was coming to him. Meaning coming back towards the ball, going up and taking the jump ball.. it was noted by the commentators as well.

 

[GatorAZ]

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[BACH]

This is such a low bar to clear, tho. No one should be planting their flag and setting their goal at approx. 24th in yardage and 23rd in receptions.

We're gonna need more than that.

I think Charmin kind of overperformed in TDs last season. Eight receiving TDs was T-13 in the NFL; 10 or more TDs would have placed him in the top eight. I think you can expect McBride to have more than two TDs; those are going to have to come from somewhere.

You want Charmin to get more efficient. The rough heuristic I like to use is fantasy position ranking, since it aggregates receptions, yards, and TDs into one tidy number. He was WR26 last year. I'd like to see him move into WR10-16 kind of territory.

Yeah. Stats doesn’t work like this.

You cannot take a “negative” fact to support your statement AND then take another fact and just personally decide to disregard it because it hurts your opinion.

Facts are facts.

But again. I might be expecting too much for someone that would rather make up blatant lies in order to be right than admitting that their argument doesn’t hold up.

 

[Shane]

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This worked out well for David Boston. Maybe MHJ can replicate that career path?

 

[602 Native]

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We all said he needed to get into the weight room so this is encouraging.

 

[PDXChris]

This worked out well for David Boston. Maybe MHJ can replicate that career path?

#goalsbutnatty

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[BullheadCardFan]

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Nice to see you work out Marv

Now about those hands....

 

[legend]

Back when just one tat was edgy . .

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[ASUCHRIS]

This worked out well for David Boston. Maybe MHJ can replicate that career path?

As long as you don't hit his nipple rings when practicing!

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

WR’s bulking up is tricky. You hope it translates to winning contested catches but that the extra weight doesn’t slow him down (at baseline is not a speedster) nor lose any flexibility.

I have to imagine this was encouraged by the cardinals coaches at the end of the season though as far as what they wanted Marv to do in the off season.