Cardinals Head Coaching Candidates 2023

Stout

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I don't think Flores turned down the Cardinals job. I think that possibly Mike didn't want to hire him so he is dragging out this process quite a bit so that Flores had to take another job rather than wait under Michael's time frame. By doing this the Cardinals did not reject him and open themselves up to more lawsuit stuff.
Which could've been avoided by never interviewing him in the first place lol
 

Stout

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3rd reply here, actually seriously talking Flores, I think it's a bad look, BUT I can see reasons he made his decision that aren't entirely connected to the franchise's ineptitude. There's obvious bias here as a fan... but he may have seen the writing on the wall vs. the other candidates, especially in the face of the Rooney Rule, and with this pending lawsuit.

I've actually felt like Ryans declined the interview for similar reasons. Now, Payton was the big ticket name at the time, but still. In a sense, I've felt like Glenn and Flores were almost "let's pretend we're serious" interviews. That's a very harsh thought, because they're both deserving of a look at a head coaching role, but... I don't know if they had a clear pathway. Bidwill's really part of the good ol' boy consortium of the NFL, and I can't fathom him hiring someone with an active lawsuit to be his coach, regardless of qualifications. Race aside, I don't think I could hire someone suing my industry either.

The way things have gone are a pretty bad look, but from a positive view as someone who just wants to win football games, I still actually feel okay, especially if we end up with Anarumo. I'd like it to happen sooner though, so we can all fight about something more tangible. I'm running out of jokes.
The ineptitude is that we moved so slow we were passed by molasses, which allowed the Vikings a chance to poach him.
 
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Solar7

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I'm honestly struggling with the "bad look" angle. Feels like that's a pure Cards fan thing.

Let's say you're a coder. You have an offer on the table to be VP of product development at Facebook, they need to know in 48 hours if you want the job. But you have a 2nd interview to be President of product development at Google in 4 days. It's a better job, pays more, but your only 1 of 3 going for it. You're not even sure it's 3 because some other guys become available next week.

Can people really not understand why that person might take the 100% VP job over the 1 in 3+ job?
You and I have only posted together over my hugely negative approach during the Kliff years, so it's probably going to sound weird for me to approach things from a place of optimism. I have a little bit of doubt in the way we've gone through the hiring process, but I can see where and why we've moved on from seemingly preferred candidates, or they've moved on from us.

As someone that's tech-adjacent, your scenario is hella fair. Money and title aren't always the only reasons you change roles. Hell, last year, I became a Director for an agency, and didn't really realize I was actually taking over a senior VP role. The amount of garbage put on my plate at that level was just miserable. Leadership was a mess. Flores could easily see going to coach for a contender, with a like-minded staff as a much better situation than running the show.

It's fair for people to feel burned though. I guess. Dennis Green wasn't some trash hire, nor was Whisenhunt, and especially not Bruce Arians, who had just been coach of the year. There's a contingent of posters here that will act like we haven't hired a coach with qualifications higher than Dave McGinness. (He was very nice to me at training camp so I love ya if you read this Coach Mac!)

This lengthy search kinda feels scary, like we don't know what we're doing, but I can even talk myself out of why we didn't get Payton, without blaming the franchise.
 
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Solar7

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The ineptitude is that we moved so slow we were passed by molasses, which allowed the Vikings a chance to poach him.
You and I agree on a lot about this franchise's problems, but I kinda feel like Flores was in the consideration set for the job only for optics. I never felt like he had more than a 25% chance to become head coach.

The lawsuit's just such a big albatross... especially with our former head coach and defensive coordinator attached to it.
 

Stout

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You and I agree on a lot about this franchise's problems, but I kinda feel like Flores was in the consideration set for the job only for optics. I never felt like he had more than a 25% chance to become head coach.

The lawsuit's just such a big albatross... especially with our former head coach and defensive coordinator attached to it.
That would make us orders of magnitude more inept.
 
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That would make us orders of magnitude more inept.
It's a league rule... I think it has a sensible purpose, but black personnel have turned down interview opportunities because they know it's a token thing, and a waste of their time. Especially with Payton still out there at the time, I'm not shocked.

Honestly, with Monti on board, I could see the Cards pushing a Flores interview as "serious" because of their connection in New England, and really just playing the game.

I hate to say it, but I've been a part of this fake compliance stuff in the past.
 

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You and I agree on a lot about this franchise's problems, but I kinda feel like Flores was in the consideration set for the job only for optics. I never felt like he had more than a 25% chance to become head coach.

The lawsuit's just such a big albatross... especially with our former head coach and defensive coordinator attached to it.

Got to disagree on this one. Interviewing Flores for optics is counter productive. It's exactly what you shouldn't do with a guy suing the NFL for 2 cases of "token" interviews. Plus they already interview Ejiro, Glenn, Vance etc to hit any quota. The one guy you don't quota is Flores.

I don't think he'd get one interview if this was the case, never mind asked back for a 2nd.
 

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Quote please.

A quote for logic?

His options right now are retire or OC. Do you not think he might change his position from a month ago? Do you think retiring is more attractive to him that coaching?

I really have no idea why this has you and Chopper's panties in a twist. It's really nothing and now likely zero to do with us.
 
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Stout

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A quote for logic?

His options right now are retire or OC. Do you not think he might change his position from a month ago?

I really have no idea why this has you and Chopper's panties in a twist. It's really nothing and now likely zero to do with us.
What I think is he was quoted as saying something and he's said and done nothing to retract or go against that.

Panties in a twist? You're losing it, man. I have simply read the man's direct quotes and have noticed a lot of people haven't read them and are uninformed. It's not my fault you're actually informed and decided to the contrary. I honestly just thought you were misinformed.
 
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Solar7

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Got to disagree on this one. Interviewing Flores for optics is counter productive. It's exactly what you shouldn't do with a guy suing the NFL for 2 cases of "token" interviews. Plus they already interview Ejiro, Glenn, Vance etc to hit any quota. The one guy you don't quota is Flores.

I don't think he'd get one interview if this was the case, never mind asked back for a 2nd.
I think Flores is a good coach. I still think it's a "look, we're considering him" approach. Vance doesn't count for the Rooney rule, because he's on our team.

The lawsuit itself is developed on the sincerity (or lack thereof) of previous interviews. Hell, the lawsuit's preliminary statement is based on a text message that implies bad faith in the hiring process. It's all a very dubious approach to hiring for any position, especially something this public.
 

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I think Flores is a good coach. I still think it's a "look, we're considering him" approach. Vance doesn't count for the Rooney rule, because he's on our team.

The lawsuit itself is developed on the sincerity (or lack thereof) of previous interviews. Hell, the lawsuit's preliminary statement is based on a text message that implies bad faith in the hiring process. It's all a very dubious approach to hiring for any position, especially something this public.

The Rooney rule sucks. Black coaches think it sucks. I don't blame them but that's a different topic.

Unless Mike and Monti got matching labotomies I just don't see how they would think it's a good idea to trying interview Flores twice for a job they aren't really interested in giving him when he's suing the league for exactly that.
 

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What I think is he was quoted as saying something and he's said and done nothing to retract or go against that.

Panties in a twist? You're losing it, man. I have simply read the man's direct quotes and have noticed a lot of people haven't read them and are uninformed. It's not my fault you're actually informed and decided to the contrary. I honestly just thought you were misinformed.

This was my reply to you bud. Not sure what part of this suggests I was misinformed.

This place can be exhausting sometimes. I've spent like 10 posts and 1000 words defending a perfectly innocuous and (i thought) reasonable tweet from two guys I actually like and respect about the absolutely trivial idea that Caldwell might change his position on becoming an OC now he lost out on all HC gigs. He might not, but it seems like a reasonable position.

We don't know it. We know he wants to be a HC, that's not going to happen.

If his options are OC (which might lead to HC next year) or enforced retirement why would he not choose to coach?

The "Only pursuing HC opportunities" was at the beginning of this cycle. It was a fair position to take. Now he knows that's not happening I'm sure his position will change.
 
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Solar7

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The Rooney rule sucks. Black coaches think it sucks. I don't blame them but that's a different topic.

Unless Mike and Monti got matching labotomies I just don't see how they would think it's a good idea to trying interview Flores twice for a job they aren't really interested in giving him when he's suing the league for exactly that.
Completely fair. For what it's worth, I haven't given you a hard time for any Flores take you've laid out.

I wanna make it clear - I think Flores had a chance, but like you alluded to, maybe a 3rd place chance.
 

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Completely fair. For what it's worth, I haven't given you a hard time for any Flores take you've laid out.

I wanna make it clear - I think Flores had a chance, but like you alluded to, maybe a 3rd place chance.

Fair enough, it sounded like you were trying to suggest we were token interviewing him.

I'm confident he wasn't favorite. I don't think you interview a guy 2 weeks ago then interview a bunch of other guys if you were blown away. Even if they want to make sure they interview everyone they like you would think there would be more haste if they thought Flores was the guy right?

I've been wondering if there 2nd interviews were about staff. It makes sense to me that the first interviews were about personality, fit, vision etc and that these 2nd interviews over zoom were about what staff they can put together.

Maybe Flores couldn't get the staff he liked? It's always been the biggest concern with him, so he took the DC job.
 

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I've been wondering if there 2nd interviews were about staff. It makes sense to me that the first interviews were about personality, fit, vision etc and that these 2nd interviews over zoom were about what staff they can put together.

Maybe Flores couldn't get the staff he liked? It's always been the biggest concern with him, so he took the DC job.
I was thinking the same thing about staffing and 2nd interviews

Hey, we like what you are bringing to the table and how you are planning to do it. What kind of staff can you bring with you?

Anyone who comes in from a coordinator job has to have some connections to bring in a strong OC and DC to help him bridge the gap of stepping up to the top position

And it's possible that Flores was unable to put together a strong staff
 
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Solar7

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Fair enough, it sounded like you were trying to suggest we were token interviewing him.
Sadly, yeah, that's still my suggestion. I kinda have three layers to my thoughts on it... one that he's a qualified black coach deserving of an interview, another that Bidwill is going through the motions because he's part of the good ol' boys club with league ownership, and in tandem with that - he might be placating the league's issues with the lawsuit. As I've also said... his franchise is responsible for 2/3rds of the complaints. I think that's unfair (claiming racial bias against the first team to have a black coach and GM seems sus), but it is what it is, and Flores comprised the final third of the lawsuit, as leader.

I kinda feel like we were rolling over backwards for him, and the Ossenfort connection made sense to keep going with it. This is just my perspective having seen too much corporate malfeasance though.
 

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Sadly, yeah, that's still my suggestion. I kinda have three layers to my thoughts on it... one that he's a qualified black coach deserving of an interview, another that Bidwill is going through the motions because he's part of the good ol' boys club with league ownership, and in tandem with that - he might be placating the league's issues with the lawsuit. As I've also said... his franchise is responsible for 2/3rds of the complaints. I think that's unfair (claiming racial bias against the first team to have a black coach and GM seems sus), but it is what it is, and Flores comprised the final third of the lawsuit, as leader.

I kinda feel like we were rolling over backwards for him, and the Ossenfort connection made sense to keep going with it. This is just my perspective having seen too much corporate malfeasance though.

I just think he's a high respected coach with a bright future that they liked. They interviewed him twice in 2018 so they liked him then too and that was before all the legal stuff.

I think the simple answer is they liked him, he had a shot but maybe not favorite and he took the sure thing with the DC job over the not sure thing. Maybe or maybe not influenced by issues putting a staff together.
 
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Solar7

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I just think he's a high respected coach with a bright future that they liked. They interviewed him twice in 2018 so they liked him then too and that was before all the legal stuff.

I think the simple answer is they liked him, he had a shot but maybe not favorite and he took the sure thing with the DC job over the not sure thing. Maybe or maybe not influenced by issues putting a staff together.
All totally fair points. It's 4 AM and I need to sleep, but I'm sure I'll come up with something I heavily disagree with you on later.
 

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the Flores deal is interesting

i think he took the DC gig because he concluded he wasnt likely to get the HC gig and wanted something certain.

He concluded this as his first interview was like 10 days ago, and the second was quite some time later. That says that they like you, but dont love you.

I think he was truly interested, otherwise he doesnt accept the second interview.

and fwiw: the length and pace of the process could very well been a turn off at the margin. It speaks to how things get done in an org.
 
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