Cardinals come tied last in NFLPA player poll

BritCard

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You are a homer with no ability to fairly criticize this team's ownership. It's okay to own up to that. I own up to hyperbole at times and being a bulldog over certain issues. Hell, I even managed to offer a minor mea culpa to DVontel the other day. Can you ever, just once, not criticize someone who criticizes ownership? It's becoming cliché at this point.

Here we go again with the usual. It normally goes like this,

Stout - "Here something I made up with no evidence"
Me - "Yeah that rubbish. It defies logic and there's nothing to back it up"
Stout - "Why are you a HOMER. Can't you just admit you are wrong?"

Yeah mate, I'm not going to mea culpa for something you invented.

I literally started the thread. I've said over and over the facilities need to improve.

You're just strawmanning because you're making crap up and to deflect you pull out the "Your a homer defending the team" card which I'm not. So just to be clear.

1. Bidwill needs to improve the facilities, but more so the services offered.

2. Employee surveys are notoriously ********. You give them the best coffee pods machines available and a month later they complain they should have a $2000 Barista machine. This is evident in the complaints that the private plane, the 6th largest in the world and 2nd only in the league, does not have enough fold flat seats.

3. There is no evidence this has any effect on signing players, or retaining players. It defies logic to think it does.
 

Arz101

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Here we go again with the usual. It normally goes like this,

Stout - "Here something I made up with no evidence"
Me - "Yeah that rubbish. It defies logic and there's nothing to back it up"
Stout - "Why are you a HOMER. Can't you just admit you are wrong?"

Yeah mate, I'm not going to mea culpa for something you invented.

I literally started the thread. I've said over and over the facilities need to improve.

You're just strawmanning because you're making crap up and to deflect you pull out the "Your a homer defending the team" card which I'm not. So just to be clear.

1. Bidwill needs to improve the facilities, but more so the services offered.

2. Employee surveys are notoriously ********. You give them the best coffee pods machines available and a month later they complain they should have a $2000 Barista machine. This is evident in the complaints that the private plane, the 6th largest in the world and 2nd only in the league, does not have enough fold flat seats.

3. There is no evidence this has any effect on signing players, or retaining players. It defies logic to think it does.

I give three generations of Bidwills short changing their players, employees and fans. Where would this history be put in your assessment?
 

BritCard

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His reply will be Watt, who was in the twilight of his career.

LOL. He was 31, just about to turn 32. The entire Eagles interior that just played in the superbowl is that age or older.

But for @Cbus cardsfan

Jared Veldheer was the 6th ranked FA in 2014. This was before the 2015 renovations when the facilities were even worse.

Mike Iupati was the 4th ranked FA in 2015. Again before the reno.

Justin Pugh in 2018 was the 12th ranked FA and Sam Bradford was 21st.

AJ Green, while 31, surely had multiple interested teams but wasn't deterred by our facilities.

Nor was Kelvin Beachum or Matt Prater or Suggs or Hicks.
 

JohnnyCakes

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correct.

Its real easy to just trash the owner as "cheap". Its been the lazy mans excuse for decades ...... truth is many people do not understand the industry enough to comment on the inter workings of the finance end of team ownership and operations. Lots of people also just have billionaire envy and like to scream and yell about owners in general.

Basically what we have here is a guideline for the team to improve facilities. For all we know plans are in place to make improvements and they are in the works, possibly colaborating with the new uniform/re-branding that is coming. I dont know if anyone has been paying attention lately but not alot of people or corporations are doing big projects right now.

The big bad owner thing is a farce.
 

BritCard

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Plenty of people across all sports cite the facilities when joining a team though. One of the primary reasons college's spend so much money on them is as a recrutitng tool. If you're a Free Agent or a UFDA and you have the choice of going to work everyday in a a state of the art facitity, or one that by their standards is sub-par (an I acknowledge that's a relative term in this context, we're not saying the weight room is like Planet Fitness) it will be a consideration. Or, you're moving to a new city and you know there are on-site childcare faciltities - great, that is one less thing for you to worry about. Sure, you may go out and enroll them somewhere else eventually but you know there is something there until then.

They are a place of work, and as people have mentioned there are plenty of reasons why companies spend big on improving office facilities - and part of that is attracting top talent
- https://www.wework.com/ideas/workspace-solutions/flexible-products/office-space-top-talent
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanko...e-impacts-employee-wellbeing/?sh=5bdc99d864f3

The food thing.... I get the everyone else pays for food, why shouldn't millionaires arguement. But the issue here is that we are the only team to do this - that is not a good look and adds to the perception of being cheap.

Massive, massive difference between college football and the NFL for obvious reasons. One of which is that college recruits do campus tours before signing. Most free agents don't. 95% of FA's don't see the training center until the deal is done and most of the remaining 5% are tryouts. But still nobody is signing for Middle Tennessee if their facilities are better than Alabama.

We are also not the only team to charge for food. The report says that. We are the only team that charges if a player want to take takeout for dinner or trains at the facility in the offseason. We are not the only team that charges players for food in other circumstances.

I think it's important to realise that on a grand scale of facilities that people are comfortable with the Cardinals facility is still a 7/10. It might need work, but it's not a **** hole. And there may well be plenty of other better facilities.

But no sensible adult male is turning a team down because their facility is a 7.
 

BritCard

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I give three generations of Bidwills short changing their players, employees and fans. Where would this history be put in your assessment?

And how is that supposed to relate to anything I said exactly?
 

JohnnyCakes

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5 kids and several grandkids. Not sure if the Key West brother got cut out of the will though. Regardless nobody in the family is an earner. All NFL money, there’s nobody taking that cash flow or the equity and growing other assets.
How exactly do you know this for sure? lol
 

BritCard

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correct.

Its real easy to just trash the owner as "cheap". Its been the lazy mans excuse for decades ...... truth is many people do not understand the industry enough to comment on the inter workings of the finance end of team ownership and operations. Lots of people also just have billionaire envy and like to scream and yell about owners in general.

Basically what we have here is a guideline for the team to improve facilities. For all we know plans are in place to make improvements and they are in the works, possibly colaborating with the new uniform/re-branding that is coming. I dont know if anyone has been paying attention lately but not alot of people or corporations are doing big projects right now.

The big bad owner thing is a farce.

LOTS of people here love (and I mean like it's their reason to live) and old excuse to rage at Mike. This is a great release for them.

Players having more lie down seats on their private plane and not having to pay for meals outside work hours like normal people have always been high on my list of priorities.

For all the many pages of rage what the report actually says is regarding the facilities is,

The gym floor needs repairing, the training room (this is the room that houses hot tubs, sauna etc) is "outdated" and players would like more locker room space (the lockers are closer in Tempe because there isn't the real estate. State farm locker rooms are huge) and complained it's old and needs renovating (it was new in 2015).

That's it. That's the entirety of the facility complaints. All the rest are service related (meal charges, lack of daycare, lack of lie down beds on the plane etc).

Of course, you can't have a reasoned, middle ground position without being a homer. Join the rage or be damned!
 
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kerouac9

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Rojo Hospitality! Although I doubt that’s profitable.

Bidwill’s house in that video looked off. A nice spot but not nearly on the level of an owner of an NFL football team.

My guess is if this Gannon thing goes up in flames quick the family looks to sell. Nobody in that family has the business acumen to build off the team and diversify into cash flow assets.

I think that was just a miss by the video guy. You can't let your boss be seen walking out of his house through a stepped-up pool gate. Did they learn nothing from Kliff's house?
 

Stout

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Here we go again with the usual. It normally goes like this,

Stout - "Here something I made up with no evidence"
Me - "Yeah that rubbish. It defies logic and there's nothing to back it up"
Stout - "Why are you a HOMER. Can't you just admit you are wrong?"

Yeah mate, I'm not going to mea culpa for something you invented.

I literally started the thread. I've said over and over the facilities need to improve.

You're just strawmanning because you're making crap up and to deflect you pull out the "Your a homer defending the team" card which I'm not. So just to be clear.

1. Bidwill needs to improve the facilities, but more so the services offered.

2. Employee surveys are notoriously ********. You give them the best coffee pods machines available and a month later they complain they should have a $2000 Barista machine. This is evident in the complaints that the private plane, the 6th largest in the world and 2nd only in the league, does not have enough fold flat seats.

3. There is no evidence this has any effect on signing players, or retaining players. It defies logic to think it does.
:biglaugh:

You are nothing if not consistent.

@BritCard: "There is no evidence this has any effect on signing players, or retaining players. It defies logic to think it does."

Also @BritCard: "Stout will always make something up with no evidence.

Thank you for being crystal clear on who starts out with bunk claims: you. Why do you think I reply strongly when you make outrageous claims? You come up with a narrative in your head, and you come on here and doggedly defend it like it's the only hill worth dying on. Beliefs and thoughts aren't facts; simply saying something doesn't make it true. You can make the bolded above your life's mantra and repeat it ad nauseum to any and all that are willing to listen, and it won't make it any less of an opinion with no basis in fact. You're the guy, "mate," who made up a statement out of whole cloth--that, predictably, defended Michael Bidwill and staunchly attempted to deflect criticism from him. Then you tried to back it up by saying "logic dictates" when logic dictates the exact opposite of what you claimed.

Put plainly, logic dictates that if you're an ish organization with ish equipment and facilities, all other factors being equal, most players are signing elsewhere. Maybe you can get a player to sign with you by throwing more money at them, but that's terrible cap management and business sense.

Everyone on this board knows that facilities, services, and everything covered in this report need to improve. Everyone knows that it has an impact on players wanting (or not wanting) to play here. Everybody but you, it seems.
 

ASUCHRIS

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The big bad owner thing is a farce.
Shocking you have this opinion.

Anyone defending the Bidwills at this point are basically this dude:

You must be registered for see images attach


The most comical are those looking to the Bidwill family to fix this. Do people not know who has been in charge for ALMOST THE LAST 100 YEARS?!?

ARE THEY JUST HAVING A BAD CENTURY!?!

You would think that some things are so obvious that agreement would be universal - 100 years of failure still isn't enough to convince people that the Bidwills are the problem. It's pitiful.
 

BritCard

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I don't know how any player could sign here and live with this...

You know, it's possible to think things could be better, especially service wise. I'd like them to get rid of all the bare brick. The team meeting room should not also be the media room.

At the same time as acknowledging work needs to be done you can also say that it's not bad, and certainly not bad enough to put off players.


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ASUCHRIS

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I don't know how any player could sign here and live with this...
You don't know anything about being an NFL player or comparative facilities. Why should your opinion matter in the least?
You know, it's possible to think things could be better, especially service wise. I'd like them to get rid of all the bare brick. The team meeting room should not also be the media room.
Perhaps they should consider you as a consultant? Clean up the aesthetics a bit?
At the same time as acknowledging work needs to be done you can also say that it's not bad, and certainly not bad enough to put off players.
My god - you JUST SAW A STUDY THAT SAYS IT LITERALLY DOES. The mental gymnastics here are fascinating.
 

CardsFan88

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correct.

Its real easy to just trash the owner as "cheap". Its been the lazy mans excuse for decades ...... truth is many people do not understand the industry enough to comment on the inter workings of the finance end of team ownership and operations. Lots of people also just have billionaire envy and like to scream and yell about owners in general.

Basically what we have here is a guideline for the team to improve facilities. For all we know plans are in place to make improvements and they are in the works, possibly colaborating with the new uniform/re-branding that is coming. I dont know if anyone has been paying attention lately but not alot of people or corporations are doing big projects right now.

The big bad owner thing is a farce.
I hope MB rectifies every one of these issues, anything left out of the report, and beyond this continually seeks to improve the working environment he and his family control.

This is an opportunity for MB. Will he heed it? We'll find out.

I guess this is going to be a yearly poll. So if anything, the Cards will be put on blast every year if they don't.

That cheap reputation, which they had decently distanced themselves since the new stadium, is starting to storm back.
 

kerouac9

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This is a prime example of how crap these polls are.

What it actually said was "This past season the Club switched to a smaller plane, which limited the number of lay down seats so many players have worse seats and less space now."

The plane last year was the Boeing 777-200ER that they bought towards the end of 2021. The Patriots have two smaller 767's.

The 777-200ER is the 6th largest plane in the world and has 28 lie flat seats. The only planes that have considerably more are the 747-8 and Airbus 320.

Damn you Michael for only having the 6th largest plane in the world.

This is primo player BS. They get their own plane, own in flight catering, about 3 seats each, no toilet queues and they moan there are ONLY 28 Lie flat beds. ******* diddums.
Perception is reality. I'm sure the players will be very happy with fewer lie-down seats once it's been explained to them.
 

Stout

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I hope MB rectifies every one of these issues, anything left out of the report, and beyond this continually seeks to improve the working environment he and his family control.

This is an opportunity for MB. Will he heed it? We'll find out.

I guess this is going to be a yearly poll. So if anything, the Cards will be put on blast every year if they don't.

That cheap reputation, which they had decently distanced themselves since the new stadium, is starting to storm back.
I guess they only distanced themselves from that cheap rep publicly. It obviously remained in place in NFL circles.
 

CardsFan88

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I guess they only distanced themselves from that cheap rep publicly. It obviously remained in place in NFL circles.
That's what floors me. The utter insanity of charging for off-season/takeout food and the like. I thought that stuff was long gone. Apparently not.
 

JohnnyCakes

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Shocking you have this opinion.

Anyone defending the Bidwills at this point are basically this dude:

You must be registered for see images attach


The most comical are those looking to the Bidwill family to fix this. Do people not know who has been in charge for ALMOST THE LAST 100 YEARS?!?

ARE THEY JUST HAVING A BAD CENTURY!?!

You would think that some things are so obvious that agreement would be universal - 100 years of failure still isn't enough to convince people that the Bidwills are the problem. It's pitiful.
i mean if it drives you so nuts why do you root for them? At the end of the day its just a game, yet here you are screaming on the internet about an owner you have never met.

Its just mind boggling to me the emotional distress this causes some people. Obtuse.
 

BritCard

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:biglaugh:

You are nothing if not consistent.

@BritCard: "There is no evidence this has any effect on signing players, or retaining players. It defies logic to think it does."

Also @BritCard: "Stout will always make something up with no evidence.

Thank you for being crystal clear on who starts out with bunk claims: you. Why do you think I reply strongly when you make outrageous claims? You come up with a narrative in your head, and you come on here and doggedly defend it like it's the only hill worth dying on. Beliefs and thoughts aren't facts; simply saying something doesn't make it true. You can make the bolded above your life's mantra and repeat it ad nauseum to any and all that are willing to listen, and it won't make it any less of an opinion with no basis in fact. You're the guy, "mate," who made up a statement out of whole cloth--that, predictably, defended Michael Bidwill and staunchly attempted to deflect criticism from him. Then you tried to back it up by saying "logic dictates" when logic dictates the exact opposite of what you claimed.

Put plainly, logic dictates that if you're an ish organization with ish equipment and facilities, all other factors being equal, most players are signing elsewhere. Maybe you can get a player to sign with you by throwing more money at them, but that's terrible cap management and business sense.

Everyone on this board knows that facilities, services, and everything covered in this report need to improve. Everyone knows that it has an impact on players wanting (or not wanting) to play here. Everybody but you, it seems.

You're hilarious.

How is me saying "There is no evidence this has any effect on signing players, or retaining players." something I made up? What kind of sane person could think that?

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE this has any effect on signing players and that is 100% fact. The only thing manufactured here is your belief that it does. That position has zero evidence and is in fact something you made up in the last 24 hours.

Despite mountains of evidence to the contrary of us signing top 20 FA players that I just listed off for you.

Any imaginary player that isn't signing here because the Jacuzzi only has 4 settings and there are only 28 lie down seats on the plane can very gladly go sign elsewhere. I don't want those players anyway.

How could any grown adult male live with this level of depravity...

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