Cardinals at Seahawks gameday thread 10-22-23

[HairZach]

Defense is worse than offense. Gannon and Rallis have been somewhat underwhelming so far

Its true, but I keep coming back to stat the our starting 11 on defense vs. Dallas had a combined cap hit of less than 20 million. In that game it was just Thompson as the established "star" and then he got hurt. We're playing with Budda, a bunch of $1 million for 1 year, 4-7th round draft picks and UDFAs.

 

[kerouac9]

Defense is worse than offense. Gannon and Rallis have been somewhat underwhelming so far

Nah. Both sides of the ball have done some cool stuff.

Defense also has far less talent on it

No doubt. The defense is probably over performing their talent level and the offense is about where you’d expect them to be.

I get that some stats tell a different story on the offense, but it’s probably a league-average group held back by an inferior quarterback.

It’s true, but I keep coming back to stat the our starting 11 on defense vs. Dallas had a combined cap hit of less than 20 million. In that game it was just Thompson as the established "star" and then he got hurt. We're playing with Budda, a bunch of $1 million for 1 year, 4-7th round draft picks and UDFAs.

Collins makes money; Gardeck makes money. Otherwise this is a pretty sad group.

 

[DVontel]

Bidwill really should be jailed for keeping Keim employed for so long to put this team in the dirt.

Damn.

Willing to be patient.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Bidwill really should be jailed for keeping Keim employed for so long to put this team in the dirt.

Damn.

Willing to be patient.

Just don't post who we could have had instead of Simmons or Z. Collins. That always makes it worse.

 

[kerouac9]

Just don't post who we could have had instead of Simmons or Z. Collins. That always makes it worse.

Simmons yeah. The Collins draft was pretty sad TBH. You could’ve found more useful players but I dunno about better ones.

 

[GatorAZ]

Bidwill really should be jailed for keeping Keim employed for so long to put this team in the dirt.

Damn.

Willing to be patient.

Raiders giving Keim a run for his money:
.

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[BritCard]

We now have sole possession of the #2 pick which is a win as far as I'm concerned.

I thought the defense generally played well except on 3rd down, but to restrict a good team at home to 20 is a win at any time.

The offense is what it is. We are starting a backup QB and a backup RB. Main concern yesterday is that the O line had it's worse game. PJJ had his worst game by far. Easy to blame Dobbs again but he was under constant pressure.

It is what it is. I like the fight, I think the team are well disciplined and organised, I think that generally the coaches are doing the best they can with what they have. That's not to say they are perfect, the 4th down call was dumb, but for sure they will have learned a lot this year.

The most important things for me is we draft high, Kyler returns and stays healthy and we develop young players for next year.

The Panthers play the Texans next week so that's a win for us either way.

 

[BritCard]

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[Garthshort]

Our second halves are extremely disturbing.

Six of our opponents would disagree with you.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I don’t think you can target elite skill position players; they have to be a surprise.

We have to get 2-3 solid NFL caliber defensive linemen in order for anything to happen.

I don’t think a 12-sack EDGE is a necessary piece to make and succeed in the playoffs

Hmmm... going to disagree with the bolded part. I think you need a (circa 2018 or 2019) Chandler Jones or Hassan Redick-type to put a little fear into opposing offenses, generate some strip sack turnovers, and to reliably get a QB off his spot. But, I'm willing listen to alternate points of view.

Also when you say elite players have to be a surprise do you mean that... well what do you mean exactly K9?

 

[CFLredzoned]

The Panthers play the Texans next week so that's a win for us either way.

I think that’s 2x bad if the Texans win. 2x good if the Panthers win.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I think that’s 2x bad if the Texans win. 2x good if the Panthers win.

Definitely want the Panthers to win

 

[BritCard]

The biggest lol for me last night was watching Witherspoon flex after hitting Rondale when Rondale caught it and got the first down. Like, what you flexing for dude?

 

[football karma]

The biggest lol for me last night was watching Witherspoon flex after hitting Rondale when Rondale caught it and got the first down. Like, what you flexing for dude?

would love to see all 22 film

it sure felt like Josh was checkdown all day long, and the underneath zone guys were tee-ing off on that checkdown throw

there HAD to be something in the middle zone

 

[BritCard]

would love to see all 22 film

it sure felt like Josh was checkdown all day long, and the underneath zone guys were tee-ing off on that checkdown throw

there HAD to be something in the middle zone

He was under pressure so much I doubt he had much time to hit anything but the checkdown. Line was bad yesterday.

 

[football karma]

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shouldnt Brooks have been run as well? I thought it was a zero tolerance policy on "contact with an official"

I see a lot of contact with an official

 

[kerouac9]

would love to see all 22 film

it sure felt like Josh was checkdown all day long, and the underneath zone guys were tee-ing off on that checkdown throw

there HAD to be something in the middle zone

I think the book is out on Dobbs that he isn't throwing it deeper than 15 yards unless dude is WAY open. Teams are just putting the lid on the top of the defense and keeping everything in front of them.

That's why there are big running lanes for Dobbs when he can escape the pocket.

 

[TheCardFan]

I don’t think a 12-sack EDGE is a necessary piece to make and succeed in the playoffs; not being embarrassing in the middle of the defense is.

Hmmm... going to disagree with the bolded part. I think you need a (circa 2018 or 2019) Chandler Jones or Hassan Redick-type to put a little fear into opposing offenses, generate some strip sack turnovers, and to reliably get a QB off his spot. But, I'm willing listen to alternate points of view.

You totally need a stud EDGE that can change the game in several ways - its one of the premier positions in the NFL.

We have mediocre guys.

Washington has two young Edge players that will be free agents next year (Sweat and Chase Young)...I doubt they can keep both with what they are already paying DL (Payne and Allen).
Sweat is more consistent but Young has elite potential (couldn't stay healthy but looks great this year).

Danielle Hunter from the Vikings will be a FA
Same with Josh Allen (Jags)

All of this is presuming Kyler is our franchise QB.

If not, we draft the next Chandler Jones.

 

[akg102]

shouldnt Brooks have been run as well? I thought it was a zero tolerance policy on "contact with an official"

I see a lot of contact with an official

Imagine allowing an official to push you backwards while the attacker is running behind the official slamming his palm in your face. You hit the attackers arm, which then collides into the side of the officials head, and then YOU get ejected.

Complete and utter ******** call.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Hmmm... going to disagree with the bolded part. I think you need a (circa 2018 or 2019) Chandler Jones or Hassan Redick-type to put a little fear into opposing offenses, generate some strip sack turnovers, and to reliably get a QB off his spot. But, I'm willing listen to alternate points of view.

Also when you say elite players have to be a surprise do you mean that... well what do you mean exactly K9?

Reddick is on pace for 13 sacks and 17 tackles for loss… again.

So freaking stupid letting that guy walk, especially for 1 year at something like 8 million bucks to a woeful Panthers team.

 

[TheCardFan]

Reddick is on pace for 13 sacks and 17 tackles for loss… again.

So freaking stupid letting that guy walk, especially for 1 year at something like 8 million bucks to a woeful Panthers team.

That was a huge mistake - agreed.

The first mistake was playing him out of position for 3 years.

 

[CFLredzoned]

The biggest lol for me last night was watching Witherspoon flex after hitting Rondale when Rondale caught it and got the first down. Like, what you flexing for dude?

Rondale was running tougher than I’ve seen him run probably ever. He must be tired of hearing how fragile he is and people getting on him for running out of bounds.

 

[kerouac9]

Hmmm... going to disagree with the bolded part. I think you need a (circa 2018 or 2019) Chandler Jones or Hassan Redick-type to put a little fear into opposing offenses, generate some strip sack turnovers, and to reliably get a QB off his spot. But, I'm willing listen to alternate points of view.

Also when you say elite players have to be a surprise do you mean that... well what do you mean exactly K9?

I think you maybe need someone who can get 10+ sacks but not someone who can get 15+? The Chiefs won the Super Bowl with DT Chris Jones getting 15.5 sacks and no one else getting more than six.

The Bengals had the sixth-ranked scoring defense in 2022 and no player on that defense had more than eight sacks.

The 2022 Bills went 13-3 and no edge rusher had more than eight sacks (though Von Miller had eight in 13 games and probably would have gotten there barring injury).

I'd rather have a rotation of five guys who can throw different looks at the QB, play 30% or so of the snaps, make $5 million a year or less, and get eight sacks than one guy who gets 17 but puts you over a barrel at contract time or if he gets nicked up.

I know that San Fran had 18.5 sacks from Bosa last year, and Reddick had 16 with Philly, but I don't feel like there's a ton of correlation between having an elite edge rusher and getting where you want to in the postseason.

As to the second part, I'm getting increasingly itchy when people post "We'll just draft a #1 WR," and assume that's going to happen and it's easy to do.

Jaxon Smith-Ngiba (sp) just scored his first career TD last week.

The best WR in the NFL was selected with the 22nd pick in the first round (Justin Jefferson) -- the fifth player picked at his position.

Arguably the second-best WR in the NFL was selected in the third round (69th overall -- nice) in Cooper Kupp.

I'm pretty conservative about this stuff, and I think that you plan to draft for a guy's 80th percentile outcome -- what is he most likely to become. Keim made a mistake because he always drafted prospects in the first few rounds based on their 95th-percentile outcome -- how good could they be if they maxed out their potential?

You totally need a stud EDGE that can change the game in several ways - its one of the premier positions in the NFL.

We have mediocre guys.

Washington has two young Edge players that will be free agents next year (Sweat and Chase Young)...I doubt they can keep both with what they are already paying DL (Payne and Allen).
Sweat is more consistent but Young has elite potential (couldn't stay healthy but looks great this year).

Danielle Hunter from the Vikings will be a FA
Same with Josh Allen (Jags)

All of this is presuming Kyler is our franchise QB.

If not, we draft the next Chandler Jones.

I mean, where have those Edge players taken their teams? Doesn't this prove my point?

 

[CardNots]

I think the book is out on Dobbs that he isn't throwing it deeper than 15 yards unless dude is WAY open. Teams are just putting the lid on the top of the defense and keeping everything in front of them.

That's why there are big running lanes for Dobbs when he can escape the pocket.

I’m wonder if Dobbs is allowed to audible based on what he sees. I haven’t seen but a few games, is he calling audibles?

 

[TheCardFan]

Jaxon Smith-Ngiba (sp) just scored his first career TD last week.

TBF - nobody considered Jaxon a #1 receiver.
This years draft is pretty solid but your right, its still a gamble.

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I mean, where have those Edge players taken their teams? Doesn't this prove my point?

An EDGE or pretty much any position outside of QB won't turn a bad team into a good team but they have true game changing ability.
Prime Chandler made our team much better.

Why do you need an elite LT?