Can you be a Card fan and despise Denny?

[Rats]

I have a hard time figuring out why there is so much Venom from certain Cardinals fans. Did DG kick your cat or something. He has been a winner at every stop in his coaching career. He has a better winning pct. then most every Super Bowl Coach and is held in pretty high reqard by his mentor Bill Walsh. Our franchise needed DG to bring credibility to it. We were not and have not been seen as an NFL team but rather as a minor league team for many years now. He brings a winning record, a winning philosophy and a get with the program or go home attitude. For a business like the NFL is I would think everyone wants to see him get our team turned around. We are starting to witness these things. Will DG take this team to the Super Bowl? That is yet to be seen. But as a longtime fan I want some respect from the rest of the leagues players and fans. That is not given it is earned by beating them on the field. DG is in year one of rebuilding and having some success despite the constant pundits in the press and fan call in shows that want to make mountains out of molehills( sorry SEC 11 didn't mean to still your line). I do not think that any rational fan can despise the kind of success DG can give our franchise and really truly enjoy the success with out admiting in the end they were wrong about the guy. Be skeptical, but be prepared to say you were wrong when he turns this team around and we win games consistantly.

 

[Vomit Boy]

I have a hard time figuring out why there is so much Venom from certain Cardinals fans. Did DG kick your cat or something. He has been a winner at every stop in his coaching career. He has a better winning pct. then most every Super Bowl Coach and is held in pretty high reqard by his mentor Bill Walsh. Our franchise needed DG to bring credibility to it. We were not and have not been seen as an NFL team but rather as a minor league team for many years now. He brings a winning record, a winning philosophy and a get with the program or go home attitude. For a business like the NFL is I would think everyone wants to see him get our team turned around. We are starting to witness these things. Will DG take this team to the Super Bowl? That is yet to be seen. But as a longtime fan I want some respect from the rest of the leagues players and fans. That is not given it is earned by beating them on the field. DG is in year one of rebuilding and having some success despite the constant pundits in the press and fan call in shows that want to make mountains out of molehills( sorry SEC 11 didn't mean to still your line). I do not think that any rational fan can despise the kind of success DG can give our franchise and really truly enjoy the success with out admiting in the end they were wrong about the guy. Be skeptical, but be prepared to say you were wrong when he turns this team around and we win games consistantly.

Perhaps you've missed my whole point in this thread.

My life is complete enough that I don't need to win a few football games to validate my happiness. I don't need to develop a win at all cost attitude just to attain a higher ground in my life.

I don't need to hitch my wagon to a repeat "harrasser" of people - male, female, white, black - in the name of "winning at all costs".

I'll live a wonderful life if we never win with Denny Green as coach. I'm not sure I can say that if we do win with him as the coach.

 

[clif]

Perhaps you've missed my whole point in this thread.

My life is complete enough that I don't need to win a few football games to validate my happiness. I don't need to develop a win at all cost attitude just to attain a higher ground in my life.

I don't need to hitch my wagon to a repeat "harrasser" of people - male, female, white, black - in the name of "winning at all costs".

I'll live a wonderful life if we never win with Denny Green as coach. I'm not sure I can say that if we do win with him as the coach.

thank you VB... I didn't know the Pope was in town?

 

[Russ Smith]

Perhaps you've missed my whole point in this thread.

My life is complete enough that I don't need to win a few football games to validate my happiness. I don't need to develop a win at all cost attitude just to attain a higher ground in my life.

I don't need to hitch my wagon to a repeat "harrasser" of people - male, female, white, black - in the name of "winning at all costs".

I'll live a wonderful life if we never win with Denny Green as coach. I'm not sure I can say that if we do win with him as the coach.

I see your point, been a UCLA fan my whole life, loved the 95 team, but hate the fact that Jim Harrick coached it. Man made my skin crawl then, so glad he's been exposed now.

Green's past has a lot of similarities to Harrick, I don't think he's AS bad as Harrick was, believe me if UCLA hadn't fired that guy he would have eventually given the school the death penalty for basketball he was just without values.

So far I don't see Green doing that stuff here, the little stuff he has done so far bothers me, but I'm not sure yet he's going to go down the same road here he did in Minnesota. One thing I do know is that Bill Bidwill senior is a man of high ethical and moral value and if HE things Green is doing that stuff here, he won't stand for it.

 

[ajcardfan]

Comeon, nobody ever accused Jimmy JOhnson of being a bad guy, never.
The man is a saint.

Jimmy Johnson promptly divorced his wife of 20-some years when he got the Dallas job and took in his mistress. Why? According to his own son, he said, "You need a wife if you're a college coach, but you don't need one in the NFL." His own son swore he would not speak to him again. That was ten years ago when I read the article about him, I don't know if his own kids still hate him. Johnson is also the guy who refused to see, or even speak, with his own parents during the NFL season so he "Wouldn't be distracted."

"Every coach who won a championship had impeccable moral fiber." Yeah, right!

 

[Tangodnzr]

So far I don't see Green doing that stuff here, the little stuff he has done so far bothers me, but I'm not sure yet he's going to go down the same road here he did in Minnesota. One thing I do know is that Bill Bidwill senior is a man of high ethical and moral value and if HE things Green is doing that stuff here, he won't stand for it.

....and that's the light at the end of the tunnel for me.

As long as Bill Bidwill has any say at all, I totally agree with your assessment there Russ.

Hopefully Green doesn't travel the same road he did in Viking land, but so far, it only seems like pretty much deja vu (I got it right this time CC )...all over again.

(The off-field stuff, there's been no mention of so far).

 

[Redsz]

Perhaps you've missed my whole point in this thread.

My life is complete enough that I don't need to win a few football games to validate my happiness. I don't need to develop a win at all cost attitude just to attain a higher ground in my life.

I don't need to hitch my wagon to a repeat "harrasser" of people - male, female, white, black - in the name of "winning at all costs".

I'll live a wonderful life if we never win with Denny Green as coach. I'm not sure I can say that if we do win with him as the coach.

Except this is the NFL and winning is all that matters.

 

[Cheesebeef]

....and that's the light at the end of the tunnel for me.

As long as Bill Bidwill has any say at all, I totally agree with your assessment there Russ.

Yeah! Hurrah - we have Bill Bidwill - the guy who cut a cancer patient and for years put an absolute cheap mess on the field while taking all of us fans as suckers as the holder of moral fiber. What a joke.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Hopefully Green doesn't travel the same road he did in Viking land, but so far, it only seems like pretty much deja vu (I got it right this time CC )...all over again.

Yeah, Tango let's hope it's not Minnesota deja vu. We sure don't need all those playoff appearances and Pro Bowlers here in Phoenix. Maybe the old man will put a stop to it if it's beginning to look like that.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah! Hurrah - we have Bill Bidwill - the guy who cut a cancer patient and for years put an absolute cheap mess on the field while taking all of us fans as suckers as the holder of moral fiber. What a joke.

What I mean, and I assume Tango too, is that if Green and his staff are being charged with sexual harassment by Cardinal employees, getting DUI's ,and players are on team buses full of corporate sponsors screaming obscenities, Bidwill won't stand for it.

The treatment of Gedney was awful, we all agree about that. But Bidwill has always been a by the book kind of guy, I never understood how Pittman lasted as long as he did here given Bidwill's tendency to be repulsed by that sort of person.

I guess what I was saying is a lot of owners would look the other way if the guy is winning games and making playoffs, I don't think Bidwill will. Remember he was the guy that basically gutted the 1984 team because he was so embarassed at the drug use by players on the team.

As long as Green "Behaves" he'll be judged on the team performance, but if he goes the way he did in Minnesota the last few years, Bidwill won't care about wins or losses.

 

[Redheart]

...So we're talking 6 or 7 women over his college and pro head coaching career...

Wow. He is qualified for President.

 

[jstadvl]

The question

was, in other words, can you like the team but hve an aversion to a particular person related to the team? I say yes. AND I think anyone on this board who says no isn't being completely honest. Especially after the recent McCown King split. Of course you can have a dislike for Green and still love this team. The rest of this thread is moot.

 

[Russ Smith]

Wow. He is qualified for President.

Note, I don't think he had 6-7 affairs, I have no idea about that, I mean had 6-7 women file harassment complaints against him at his various stops.

As far as I know he had one affair.

 

[WildBB]

Is it OK to have absolutely no respect for a man who is notorious for being a self promoter without producing any results?

I will remain a Cardinal fan, despite Denny Green. Because the game is bigger than that egomaniac.

I can tell you this...Mr. Bidwill is very nervous about what is going on with his team. In the same way that the Buddy Ryan thing imploded on him.

Denny Green did not take this job to take the Cardinals to the promised land. He took it to pad his personal portfolio.

I don't like Denny Green. I never will. Because I know the spirit and karma that good people generate in life.

Denny Green is not one of those people.

I'm not a huge fan. To say the least. The guys a competent nfl coach and all. He drafts well. Well pretty good so far I think.

I don't like the playcalling pretty much all year. Sometimes lately the team has looked ill prepared - on offence. Some of that is Woods fault. But how long before the head coach takes some heat for it?

I'm not real happy with some of his personell decisions - and probobly he's not either.

And yea - the guy's got one big ego. But put up or shut up - "it's a tough business and we don't make excuses for it being a tough business". You got 1 more year to prove it here DG.

 

[Redsz]

Somehow I think he has got more than one year.

 

[Chaz]

Is it OK to have absolutely no respect for a man who is notorious for being a self promoter without producing any results?

I will remain a Cardinal fan, despite Denny Green. Because the game is bigger than that egomaniac.

I can tell you this...Mr. Bidwill is very nervous about what is going on with his team. In the same way that the Buddy Ryan thing imploded on him.

Denny Green did not take this job to take the Cardinals to the promised land. He took it to pad his personal portfolio.

I don't like Denny Green. I never will. Because I know the spirit and karma that good people generate in life.

Denny Green is not one of those people.

According to my copy of the bylaws you are free to have any opinion you want but you must stand at the back of the bus for at least two seasons.

Unless he does something really outrageous that extends outside his preview of the football team it is his show. Lets see where he goes. I think he still has enough credibility to merit a fair shot at full filling his contract. I think Bidwill trusts Graves and Graves is the buffering factor with Denny.

 

[WisconsinCard]

According to my copy of the bylaws you are free to have any opinion you want but you must stand at the back of the bus for at least two seasons.

Unless he does something really outrageous that extends outside his preview of the football team it is his show. Lets see where he goes. I think he still has enough credibility to merit a fair shot at full filling his contract. I think Bidwill trusts Graves and Graves is the buffering factor with Denny.

Great post....We also have to remenber that people do make mistakes. People can change. But it makes us who we are today, so to bring up peoples past is just wrong in my book. People deserve a second chance. Its not he he lop off 2 peoples domes or anything...oh thats another story.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Great post....We also have to remenber that people do make mistakes. People can change. But it makes us who we are today, so to bring up peoples past is just wrong in my book. People deserve a second chance. Its not he he lop off 2 peoples domes or anything...oh thats another story.

To me that is one major cop out!!!

Sure people can change.
Sure people make mistakes.
Sure they should sometimes given a second chance.

But your past IS a part of you. And when your "past" has shown some "stumbling blocks", then only a fool would not, as the old Irish proverb goes......Trust in God, but keep your door locked.


And moreover:
Fool me once, shame on you,
Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[TRW]

To answer the question....yes, you certainly can. I despised Dave McGinnis as a head coach but still was a Cardinal fan. Dave is probably a very good person, don't know from personal knowledge, but he was a terrible head coach. Denny is a much better head coach and has a checkered past of moral failures. BUT, he's the head coach of the team I am a fan of NOT my guidance counsellor in life.

If he breaks the law or harrasses women or gets too big for his britches here then he will be gone. The Bidwills will not put up with him doing those things. Yes, one's past is part of the story of one's life but there are those who do change. Denny has a wife and young family now and maybe, just maybe he is a changed man. For his sake and his family's sake I hope so.

For me, I will judge him only as to the job he does coaching this football team NOT on his past off the field issues. Those are between him and God.

 

[ajcardfan]

Somehow I think he has got more than one year.

No doubt. He signed a five year deal. It would have to get unbelievably ugly for the Bidwills eat years off that deal at 2 million per season.

 

[Russ Smith]

No doubt. He signed a five year deal. It would have to get unbelievably ugly for the Bidwills eat years off that deal at 2 million per season.

absolutely true.

BUT, I do think if I know Bill Bidwill I'd bet anything he's got some clause in Green's contract that allows him to get out of it early if Green does some of the things we're discussing here.

Every team talking to Green was laying out a list of rules and "you can't do this" to Green, I suspect our list was shorter(since we hired Solomon and Hargrave) but I don't think for one minute Bidwill overlooked his past and didn't put some clause in there about behavior.

He won't fire Green early over wins and losses, too expensive, but if he does something illegal, I bet Bidwill can void the contract.

For all my frustration with Bidwill since 1975 ONE thing I will grant him is he protects his money, I gotta believe he did it this time too.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Is it OK to have absolutely no respect for a man who is notorious for being a self promoter without producing any results?

I will remain a Cardinal fan, despite Denny Green. Because the game is bigger than that egomaniac.

I can tell you this...Mr. Bidwill is very nervous about what is going on with his team. In the same way that the Buddy Ryan thing imploded on him.

Denny Green did not take this job to take the Cardinals to the promised land. He took it to pad his personal portfolio.

I don't like Denny Green. I never will. Because I know the spirit and karma that good people generate in life.

Denny Green is not one of those people.

It is possible and recommended! Vomit Boy if you hate Denny Green then that is fine, actually that is GREAT!

What I hate are yes-men, and sheep that just follow what everyone else is doing.

Now I for one support Denny Green and believe he will have this team at the top of the division next year, but that is just one man opinion.

What makes this board great is the differences in opinion and different perspectives. You don't have to support EVERYTHING a team does, sometimes it is best to question what is going on.

So keep at it!

 

[CaptTurbo]

If you thought Mac was a great coach and Denny a bad one. You SHOULD take a look into why. Or seek help.


jmo

 

[RugbyMuffin]

It DOES depend on your definition of what's bad though.

I have been saying that line for YEARS! What one person thinks is bad another sees as alright. The word "bad" is not a defined line.

Nobody said you have to be an alter boy in this world. You can be as lustful, evil and "egomaniacal" as you want to be !!!!!!

The NFL is not church, and niether is the USA for that matter. Morals are for religious talk. Not business.

You care about somebody's personal past? That is fine.

I care about winning in NFL, and that is what I think Green will do for us......and I don't care if he does dawning a hooker at each hip.

 

[CaptTurbo]

and I don't care if he does dawning a hooker at each hip.

Actually I would prefer that