2022 Off-Season Changes

[DaHilg]

We have 6M in cap space and 4-6 starters already set to be free agents. The only way that we could do what you want is if he had a lot of draft picks, and we used them well. We don't draft well, period.

So every cap site I see shows we have between $16mm-$18mm...cut Pugh, Hump and Hicks with VERY limited dead money (not sure you understand that, that makes it easy for them to be cut) and you get another ~$31mm. You are looking at $50mm in open cap with those moves. VERY doable.

Again, we replaced how many starters with far less cap last year? Some players will be drafted, some players will be signed in free agents, some traded and a few may even be found on the current roster (I fully expect/hope Zavien Collins will start next year.. maybe there is another player that will emerge as a starter that's already on the roster). I would define a new starter as a player who started less than half of the games last year. To my count we had a total of 11 new starters in 2021.

I could VERY much see us with a similar starter turn-over in 2022.

 

[Stout]

I think he sat down twice, not sure which one it was either. I had to watch the stupid Mannings version of the game and I was jaded by the fact that I almost didn't get to watch the game at all. Probably would have been for the best...

Ha, how sad is it that we're wondering which bad sit-down sack we're each referencing?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

So every cap site I see shows we have between $16mm-$18mm...cut Pugh, Hump and Hicks with VERY limited dead money (not sure you understand that, that makes it easy for them to be cut) and you get another ~$31mm. You are looking at $50mm in open cap with those moves. VERY doable.

Again, we replaced how many starters with far less cap last year? Some players will be drafted, some players will be signed in free agents, some traded and a few may even be found on the current roster (I fully expect/hope Zavien Collins will start next year.. maybe there is another player that will emerge as a starter that's already on the roster). I would define a new starter as a player who started less than half of the games last year. To my count we had a total of 11 new starters in 2021.

I could VERY much see us with a similar starter turn-over in 2022.

That 16-18 total is based off of a guess on what the cap will be next year. As far as I know, it hasn't been set yet.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Ha, how sad is it that we're wondering which bad sit-down sack we're each referencing?

I don't mind him protecting himself to prevent injury, but it is definitely not a good look, lol.

 

[DaHilg]

Yeah, you're wrong. You don't get a clean pocket and 5-8 seconds to play QB in this league. Mahomes got pressured as much as, if not more than, KM did, and look what he did. You might not see it the same way because he stepped up, made snap decisions, and made his OL look better. KM threw his OL under the bus.

And, btw, I ABSOLUTELY expect my QB to step up in the pocket and get "absolutely crushed" if he's completing an important pass. That's what real QBs do--take a hit to make a play for the freaking team.

We aren't going to agree on this subject. KM didn't throw is OL under the bus. When a QB doesn't have trust in his protection, has a lack of weapons at his disposal - I think you'd be hard pressed to find any QB willing to get crushed with no resemblance of confidence around him. I believe QB is willing to take those hits if he knows he is going to rewarded in doing so (a key play, first down, touchdown, etc). I'd rather not have my supposed franchise QB get crushed when the reward simply is not there.

AGAIN, I feel I have to preface anything before the "I hate Kyler blame him for everything gang" attacks me. KYLER played like crap!!! Just horrible. He should be embarrassed of his play. All I am saying is I don't believe any QB not named Rodgers or Brady wouldn't have sucked last night given the same Oline, same weapons and same coach. Others may have sucked less, but only a few would have succeed. Give Kyler what KC gave Mahomes this off-season... a offensive line. Then if he sucks, I'll join the "I hate Kyler blame him for everything gang"

 

[82CardsGrad]

Are you thinking of the one he sat down on? Because he literally could have avoided it by stepping up in the pocket. He literally just gave up.

100%. And the other one where he started to drop before the rusher "gently" grabbed his legs. Kyler played bigtime scared. Never seen a NFL QB play that way...ever.

 

[DaHilg]

That 16-18 total is based off of a guess on what the cap will be next year. As far as I know, it hasn't been set yet.

It has been... so those numbers are real if not understated. $208.2mm for 2022. Expanding over $25mm.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It has been... so those numbers are real if not understated. $208.2mm for 2022. Expanding over $25mm.

I didn't hear that. Nice.

You aren't going to replace the amount of players you want to replace in one year without the draft and a competent GM. Do you think we have one of those?

 

[cheesebeef]

Any changes are pointless if they’re made by Steve Keim.

 

[DaHilg]

I didn't hear that. Nice.

You aren't going to replace the amount of players you want to replace in one year without the draft and a competent GM. Do you think we have one of those?

Through draft, trade and current roster players it can easily be done.... especially considering the lack of talent at numerous positions. Don't think it would take much. Again, we had 11 new starters in 2021. 11.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Through draft, trade and current roster players it can easily be done.... especially considering the lack of talent at numerous positions. Don't think it would take much. Again, we had 11 new starters in 2021. 11.

How did that work out for us?

 

[Stout]

We aren't going to agree on this subject. KM didn't throw is OL under the bus. When a QB doesn't have trust in his protection, has a lack of weapons at his disposal - I think you'd be hard pressed to find any QB willing to get crushed with no resemblance of confidence around him. I believe QB is willing to take those hits if he knows he is going to rewarded in doing so (a key play, first down, touchdown, etc). I'd rather not have my supposed franchise QB get crushed when the reward simply is not there.

AGAIN, I feel I have to preface anything before the "I hate Kyler blame him for everything gang" attacks me. KYLER played like crap!!! Just horrible. He should be embarrassed of his play. All I am saying is I don't believe any QB not named Rodgers or Brady wouldn't have sucked last night given the same Oline, same weapons and same coach. Others may have sucked less, but only a few would have succeed. Give Kyler what KC gave Mahomes this off-season... a offensive line. Then if he sucks, I'll join the "I hate Kyler blame him for everything gang"

You contradict yourself so much! You saw you totally get why he sucked after trying to absolutely excuse his crappy play. Your two paragraphs just don't connect.

 

[Russ Smith]

100%. And the other one where he started to drop before the rusher "gently" grabbed his legs. Kyler played bigtime scared. Never seen a NFL QB play that way...ever.

Am I the only one confused here officially he was sacked twice yesterday. one of them was the one where Miller beat Hump around the edge, Hump pushed him and he went right into Kylers legs. Live I was waiting for the flag for low hit but on replay I saw the push so realized why no penalty. The other was a split sack between Donald and Gaines, the one he sat down on. He actually tried to step up but there were 2 guys there and Donald jumped a bit so Kyler tried to duck him and then Gaines was there so he just sat down.

The real issues were the plays he wasn't sacked on but he panicked(the picksix) or made a terrible throw(the screen pick) I didn't have an issue with either of the sacks he actually took.

 

[Dayman]

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[DVontel]

Kind of irrelevant to discuss as long as the owner is cool with what’s going on.

 

[DaHilg]

You contradict yourself so much! You saw you totally get why he sucked after trying to absolutely excuse his crappy play. Your two paragraphs just don't connect.

No, actually I did not. He had a crap game, but he’s not the reason we suck as a whole… but cool.

 

[cheesebeef]

Kind of irrelevant to discuss as long as the owner is cool with what’s going on.

Yup. Knowing that at most, the only change will be firing Vance as the sacrificial lamb, there is just zero reason or energy at this point to discuss what needs to happen to become a legit contender.

 

[DaHilg]

How did that work out for us?

So keeping the same 11 starters and overpaying the same players who not only underperformed but could be cut with limited money ramifications will work out great ?

 

[redheat]

Defense:
Big focus on D-line and edge rush. We are locked in with Collins and Simmons at LB, two young CB’s in Wilson and Murphy and set at safety with Baker and Thompson. Slot CB would need to be addressed but D-line most important.

Offense:
Guards big need, Hopefully keep Ertz and Williams at TE. Conner over edmunds and I think Green is a good #2 while Moore has potential as an Edelman type slot. The issue is Murray. If he can’t/refuses to operate under center then he’s not an NFL QB. If Kliff can’t implement this into the offense then he’s not an NFL coach.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Am I the only one confused here officially he was sacked twice yesterday. one of them was the one where Miller beat Hump around the edge, Hump pushed him and he went right into Kylers legs. Live I was waiting for the flag for low hit but on replay I saw the push so realized why no penalty. The other was a split sack between Donald and Gaines, the one he sat down on. He actually tried to step up but there were 2 guys there and Donald jumped a bit so Kyler tried to duck him and then Gaines was there so he just sat down.

The real issues were the plays he wasn't sacked on but he panicked(the picksix) or made a terrible throw(the screen pick) I didn't have an issue with either of the sacks he actually took.

Not including the end zone pick 6, yes, Kyler was officially sacked twice. I happen to believe that on the Von Miller sack, Kyler made zero effort to elude or escape a rusher who was falling down at his feet... IMHO, all other NFL QB's playing in a playoff game, would've made the effort to escape, or, try to make a play. And the second official sack (Donald/Gaines), is simply laughable. 100% of other NFL QB's would never, ever have taken the action of simply sitting down, untouched. There was a lane available to Kyler to his right, that he could've easily taken as both Donald and Gaines were being pushed to his left shoulder side. Instead, he played it scared and simply sat down. Arguably the biggest wuss move I have seen from a QB. Certainly the most chicken-shyte move I've seen in a post-season game.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

So keeping the same 11 starters and overpaying the same players who not only underperformed but could be cut with limited money ramifications will work out great ?

There will definitely be turnover, just not to the extent that you want... while still having quality (better) players as a replacement.

 

[Russ Smith]

Not including the end zone pick 6, yes, Kyler was officially sacked twice. I happen to believe that on the Von Miller sack, Kyler made zero effort to elude or escape a rusher who was falling down at his feet... IMHO, all other NFL QB's playing in a playoff game, would've made the effort to escape, or, try to make a play. And the second official sack (Donald/Gaines), is simply laughable. 100% of other NFL QB's would never, ever have taken the action of simply sitting down, untouched. There was a lane available to Kyler to his right, that he could've easily taken as both Donald and Gaines were being pushed to his left shoulder side. Instead, he played it scared and simply sat down. Arguably the biggest wuss move I have seen from a QB. Certainly the most chicken-shyte move I've seen in a post-season game.

I disagree on that sack because Miller got pushed right into him by Humphries. HOpefully this screenshot works it's from the NFL.com video of it https://www.nfl.com/videos/von-miller-engulfs-kyler-murray-for-first-playoff-sack-since-2015. If you look if Kyler steps up he's going right into where Hump pushed Miller. The push was the whole problem, Hump realized Miller got his shoulder by him and Hump sort of panicked and instead of trying to push Miller by Kyler he pushes him directly forward into the space just in front of Kyler. Kyler tries to back out at the last second to avoid it. 2 problems, Kyler has to feel the pressure, Hump has to do a better job of pushing Miller away from Kyler. If Kyler feels the pressure earlier he can step up but as long as Hump pushes Miller the way he did it's not going to end well. The really crappy thing is that's the play Griese brought up because if Miller doesn't get that sack Kyler is going to throw the ball to Rondale who's about to break open when kyler goes down. If he felt it early enough and stepped up he might have been able to get it to Rondale but the real issue there IMO is how fast Miller beat Hump, that the chip by edmonds was worthless, and that Hump shoved his man right into the QB.

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[dreamcastrocks]

I disagree on that sack because Miller got pushed right into him by Humphries. HOpefully this screenshot works it's from the NFL.com video of it https://www.nfl.com/videos/von-miller-engulfs-kyler-murray-for-first-playoff-sack-since-2015. If you look if Kyler steps up he's going right into where Hump pushed Miller. The push was the whole problem, Hump realized Miller got his shoulder by him and Hump sort of panicked and instead of trying to push Miller by Kyler he pushes him directly forward into the space just in front of Kyler. Kyler tries to back out at the last second to avoid it. 2 problems, Kyler has to feel the pressure, Hump has to do a better job of pushing Miller away from Kyler. If Kyler feels the pressure earlier he can step up but as long as Hump pushes Miller the way he did it's not going to end well. The really crappy thing is that's the play Griese brought up because if Miller doesn't get that sack Kyler is going to throw the ball to Rondale who's about to break open when kyler goes down. If he felt it early enough and stepped up he might have been able to get it to Rondale but the real issue there IMO is how fast Miller beat Hump, that the chip by edmonds was worthless, and that Hump shoved his man right into the QB.

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Yep, that was the one I was talking to Stout about. That one is definitely not on Kyler.

 

[TRW]

Seems like they will need the same position players as they did last year, and the year before, and the year before...

 

[DVontel]

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Woof.