Bryant charged with felony sexual assault

[Renz]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Oh my god. You have officially come straight out and blamed the woman for the whole thing!! Without ANY evidence. This is unbelievable!

I'm sorry, but you have got to be one of the most misguided and naive human beings I've ever encountered!

I am only raising the questions that Kobe's defense team will raise at the trial. If she can't credibly explain her reasons for going up to a man's hotel room then that alone raises "reasonable doubt". Remember, the prosecution has to "prove" he is guilty. He doesn't have to "prove" he's "not guilty".

And if you think that there aren't women out there who are on the lookout to score with pro athletes then you are the naive one.

 

[rkellysunsfan]

"The woman, who was working the late shift at the resort, told one of her friends that she went to Bryant's hotel room shortly after he had checked in. "She said it was late, so she went to deliver him something," said Ashley Scriver, 19. "She said he was very nice, playing it cool, totally playing off his image. Then he just went crazy," Scriver said. "She said he forced himself on her. He went the whole way. She didn't have a choice." Orange County Register"

Well, if that's the story that the woman is putting forth, I'll go right ahead and say that it didn't happen, and this lady is in fact a ***** who only wants attention. I mean, even if Kobe Bryant is a completely scumbag, it'd be tough to say that he's not at least an intelligent one. If the lady was going up to drop a couple things off, she should've only been gone for 10 minutes max. Obviously, if Kobe raped the girl, Kobe would've known that people would start to worry about her after a while, and he would surely get caught. And Kobe was in this town recovering from knee surgery. So if Kobe was planning on raping some girl that just happened to pop into his hotel room some day, why would he pick the day that it would actually be painful for him to try to hold a girl down as he forced her to have sex with him?

People are saying that we don't really know this girl so we have no grounds to make assumptions about her. Well, we know that she is from a small town, and that she recently tried out to be on American Idol. This, indicating that her small-town lifestyle isn't enough for her, added to the fact that her old boyfriend says that she is starved for attention, starts to shine light on the kind of person this girl is. She may not necesarily be capable of false accusations of this magnitude, but she sure won't mind the attention she's getting for this case.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Renz

And if you think that there aren't women out there who are on the lookout to score with pro athletes then you are the naive one.

That is not the point, and you know it.

Of course there are women out there, and all this crap about you're just relaying what the prosecutors will say is crap too. The truth is, you have no idea whatsoever what's going on, but the fact that you are a Laker fan has made it a requirement for you to automatically discount the woman as a homewrecker.

Open your eyes.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by rkellysunsfan
Well, if that's the story that the woman is putting forth, I'll go right ahead and say that it didn't happen, and this lady is in fact a ***** who only wants attention. I mean, even if Kobe Bryant is a completely scumbag, it'd be tough to say that he's not at least an intelligent one. If the lady was going up to drop a couple things off, she should've only been gone for 10 minutes max. Obviously, if Kobe raped the girl, Kobe would've known that people would start to worry about her after a while, and he would surely get caught. And Kobe was in this town recovering from knee surgery. So if Kobe was planning on raping some girl that just happened to pop into his hotel room some day, why would he pick the day that it would actually be painful for him to try to hold a girl down as he forced her to have sex with him?

You are sick, therealhardaway. Wait. I mean, notakiddfan1. I mean, rkellysunsfan. Again with the ***** remarks with little or no validity at all.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Renz
I am only raising the questions that Kobe's defense team will raise at the trial. If she can't credibly explain her reasons for going up to a man's hotel room then that alone raises "reasonable doubt". Remember, the prosecution has to "prove" he is guilty. He doesn't have to "prove" he's "not guilty".

And if you think that there aren't women out there who are on the lookout to score with pro athletes then you are the naive one.

It really depends on many things. She could easily say she changed her mind that the last minute and decided she did not want to have sex with him. She could say, as has been suggested here, that she just went up there to meet a basketball player she admired. The district attorney's office will prepare her.

Joe Mama

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by Chaplin
That is not the point, and you know it.

Of course there are women out there, and all this crap about you're just relaying what the prosecutors will say is crap too. The truth is, you have no idea whatsoever what's going on, but the fact that you are a Laker fan has made it a requirement for you to automatically discount the woman as a homewrecker.

Open your eyes.

Why don't you open your eyes and read my post. I say right there in black and gray that "we don't know" if she is a homewrecker or not.

Get off your high horse. Just because someone questions the motives of the "victim" doesn't mean they automatically think they are lying. I guess we should just take her word for it and throw Kobe in prison right now.

I'm not sure what your point is. I never said Kobe was guilty or innocent, but to get to the truth sometimes some unpleasant questions have to be asked.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I dont know if this was posted, but here is an interesting article

http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0719/1582948.html

One last unknown variable could be race.

The Eagle County community, according to the Post, is 74 percent white and less than 1 percent black. Colorado lawyer Lisa Wayne, one of two blacks on the board of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, said minorities have difficulties getting fair trials, particular in rural Colorado areas.

"There's always the hope that this kind of defendant, because of who he is, would transcend race," Wayne told The Denver Post. "But I have to tell you that when it comes to allegations of sexual assault involving a black man and a white woman, there's often a deep bias that is so ingrained with jurors that they don't even recognize it, and it can interfere with their ability to (recognize) his status."



I would hope that would be a reach, but sadly it might actually play a factor the way they expressed it.

About the snippet Joe posted about her friends story. If that was the truth I cannot imagine the DA filed charges without a huge amount of evidence. Like I said in my earlier post, if she was forcefully held down like was described, there would be definite signs immediately. There would be little need to wait for the test results.

There is just to many stories out there since it is Kobe, it is hard to find any valid info.

 

[rkellysunsfan]

You are sick, therealhardaway. Wait. I mean, notakiddfan1. I mean, rkellysunsfan. Again with the ***** remarks with little or no validity at all.

Chap, what are you talking about? I believe Kobe is innocent, and therefore this 19 year old girl is a bad person. We can't have two people in this situation who are right. If you're going to blame Kobe Bryant even by doubting him in this rape case, than you are no different than I am.

Of course, you're God. Other than that though, you're no different.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by rkellysunsfan
Chap, what are you talking about? I believe Kobe is innocent, and therefore this 19 year old girl is a bad person. We can't have two people in this situation who are right. If you're going to blame Kobe Bryant even by doubting him in this rape case, than you are no different than I am.

Of course, you're God. Other than that though, you're no different.

You think Kobe is innocent. Why? You can't even answer that.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Historically, the victims in these high profile assault cases end up with their lives ruined. They do not get rich.

Paula Jones, the girl that Mike Tyson raped, etc.

The only one that seemed to come out OK was Monica Lewinsky, but she never claimed abuse and was an unwilling witness.

That said, if she is doing this for the money, she is really stupid, because it likely won't pay. The greater likelihood is that a crime was actually committed. That, of course, does NOT mean a conviction is likely--thats another issue.

I think it is quite naive to assume Kobe is innocent (we don't know for sure he is guilty either).

BTW, I heard on the radio tonight an interview with a woman who used to handle athletes endorsement deals with NIKE. She was a laison between the athletes and the company (sorry don't remember her name).

She said she was not surprised by this at all, and that it is very foolish for fans to think they know something about an athletes character just because of what they see in the media. She said that many athletes are totally miscast in the media.

 

[elindholm]

BTW, I heard on the radio tonight an interview with a woman who used to handle athletes endorsement deals with NIKE.... She said she was not surprised by this at all, and that it is very foolish for fans to think they know something about an athletes character just because of what they see in the media. She said that many athletes are totally miscast in the media.

But, she was careful to point out, athletes are always represented accurately in shoe commercials.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by JCSunsfan
greater likelihood is that a crime was actually committed.

How can you say that? This coming from the person who got upset about stephan saying the "victim" was probably a *****.

I agree. For someone to call her a "*****" without knowing anything about her is one of the most prejudicial comments I have ever heard.

I am not saying I agree with his statement, nor am I bringing in Kobe's innocence or guilt.

I just think it is funny that so many people can get upset at someone for suggesting something bad about the "victim" but then go right ahead and suggest that Kobe is a sexual offender.

The fact is, neither of you know anything about Kobe or the girl, so if you are going to critisize someone for their comment, do not turn right around and make one of your own on the opposite side of the spectrum

(This wasnt meant to single you out, I know a lot of people do this. I just think that if someone is going to critisize another's comment, they shouldnt make the same type of statement 2 pages later)

 

[Joe Mama]

Graham, maybe you did have something about it is not going to trial. According to this article there does exist that possibility. Apparently this girl overdosed on pills six months ago after she returned home from school to find out her longtime boyfriend had been seeing somebody else. See also lost a close friend in a car accident.

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/6343029.htm

Joe Mama

 

[Dback Jon]

Whew! - just read all 15 pages - a few comments.

First - to those who are calling her a ***** - you are despicable excuses for human beings. We do not know the facts - no one except maybe Kobe and the girl knows exactly what happened, so to judge either on a criminal case is wrong.

Second - we do know that Kobe committed Adultery (you know, one of the Ten Commandments). After first denying it, this admission alone is interesting. Not that it proves one way or the other his guilt or innocence, but an interesting twist.

Third - Any attempt by the defense to bring up the defendent's past actions/life will be inadmissable in court. It's called Rape Shield Laws. 30 years ago, defense attorneys used those tactics, like how the victim dressed, etc to paint a victim as a **** who wanted it. That is now illegal to do. Even the fact that she went to his room can not be used as a defense. Just because someone voluntarily goes to someone's room/house etc, doesn't mean she wants to sleep with him.

Fourth - this case reminds me of the Mike Tyson case. I think we will find both similar - a girl goes to a celebrity room, starts to mess around. When it gets serious (ie sex) the girl has second thoughts. Wants the guys to stop. He does not stop, or doesn't stop soon enough.

Fifth - could they both be right, at least in their own minds? Could Kobe genuinely think it was consensual, while the girl really thinks she was assaulted. Sexual assault has a lot of gray area in it.

It is going to be an interesting few months.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Graham, maybe you did have something about it is not going to trial. According to this article there does exist that possibility. Apparently this girl overdosed on pills six months ago after she returned home from school to find out her longtime boyfriend had been seeing somebody else. See also lost a close friend in a car accident.

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/6343029.htm

Joe Mama

The more I hear about this case the more I believe the girl doesnt have a chance. I just dont see how the DA could possibly go against Bryant's attorneys. There was a quote in another article where the DA said his entire budget for the year was 2.7 million, where Bryant makes 30-40 million a year. They just dont have the resources, and the way it looks now, the evidence to actually win this.

I think that unfortunately for the girl, she is going to be ripped to shreds if she ever gets on the stand......

 

[Lefty]

Does anyone have a site that shows a picture of her?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

)

Originally posted by Dback Jon

Third - Any attempt by the defense to bring up the defendent's past actions/life will be inadmissable in court. It's called Rape Shield Laws. 30 years ago, defense attorneys used those tactics, like how the victim dressed, etc to paint a victim as a **** who wanted it. That is now illegal to do. Even the fact that she went to his room can not be used as a defense. Just because someone voluntarily goes to someone's room/house etc, doesn't mean she wants to sleep with him.

I am by no means an attorney (well yet anyways ) but I think the defense is not going to bring up the past to say the girl wanted it. They are trying to undermine her credibility not her character, which is totally admissible in court.

Just because someone voluntarily goes to someone's room/house etc, doesn't mean she wants to sleep with him.


True, but unless there was a reason in her job description that sent her to his room, it does bring up more credibility attack possibilities.

Proving sexual assault is considered difficult unless there is overwhelming physical evidence. If the case turns into a he-said/she-said argument, the critical point likely will be: Why did the woman visit Bryant's room at the Lodge & Spa at Cordillera about 11 p.m. that night?

Bryant was staying at the hotel prior to having arthroscopic surgery on his right knee at a Vail clinic the next day. The defense could argue that the woman, having just met Bryant when he checked into the hotel less than an hour earlier, was arranging for a sexual encounter.

"Going to someone's room near midnight is probably not for work," Colorado defense lawyer Edward J. Nugent told the Times. "That looks like a social decision."



http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0719/1582948.html

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Graham, maybe you did have something about it is not going to trial. According to this article there does exist that possibility. Apparently this girl overdosed on pills six months ago after she returned home from school to find out her longtime boyfriend had been seeing somebody else. See also lost a close friend in a car accident.

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/6343029.htm

Joe Mama

This article actually furthers my belief that she isn't lying. This girl has been through a tremendous amount of emotional trauma in the past year, and I don't see why she would cause more drama.

It's funny that they keep calling her a "woman". 19 year olds aren't "women" or "men".

 

[elindholm]

19 year olds aren't "women" or "men".

At least not both at the same time.

Eighteen is legal adult age for most things. The media always call people "women" or "men" if they are 18 or older.

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
This article actually furthers my belief that she isn't lying. This girl has been through a tremendous amount of emotional trauma in the past year, and I don't see why she would cause more drama.

It's funny that they keep calling her a "woman". 19 year olds aren't "women" or "men".

Now, that's funny.

 

[WizardOfAz]

ESPN Radio has been all over this story this morning. They are quoting the Orange Couty Register extensively:


http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0720/1583145.html


The Register quoted legal experts as saying the news of the overdose will be a major advantage for Bryant's defense team.

"This is powerful evidence and the answer to the defense's prayers," Robert Pugsley, a criminal law professor at Southwestern University School of Law in Los Angeles, said. Pugsley added that this kind of evidence, if exploited by the defense, could be enough to shut down the case before it reaches trial.

"[Defense attorneys are] looking for a way to demonstrate that this woman is hysterical and over-reactive," Pugsley said. "This is literally dynamite evidence, a bonanza for the defense and a landmine for prosecution."

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by elindholm
19 year olds aren't "women" or "men".

At least not both at the same time.

Eighteen is legal adult age for most things. The media always call people "women" or "men" if they are 18 or older.

Oh, I understand that. I just find it funny.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Joe Mama


I would like someone to please find some documentation of where Kobe Bryant said he did not even know this girl. As far as I know the only thing he had set up until yesterday was that he did not do anything illegal.


Joe Mama

I was the one who claimed that, and I haven't found anything to support that claim. I must have misheard what Kobe was saying, or my memory was just faulty .

But one thing that we all know for sure, was that in the beginning Kobe claimed that he had done nothing wrong. That isn't true, he now admits to committing adultery. That's where he lied, adultery IS wrongdoing, and I think anyone who values there wife or even girlfriend would agree.

 

[elindholm]

That's where he lied, adultery IS wrongdoing, and I think anyone who values there wife or even girlfriend would agree.

And never mind that it is illegal in some (many?) states, plus automatic grounds for divorce.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by elindholm
That's where he lied, adultery IS wrongdoing, and I think anyone who values there wife or even girlfriend would agree.

And never mind that it is illegal in some (many?) states, plus automatic grounds for divorce.

Exactly. No matter what the outcome of this trial is, Kobe Bryant is no longer a "good guy". The NBA is filled with men that cheat on their wives, and is generally viewed as a league of thugs and criminals. I don't know if Kobe qualifies as a thug or criminal, but his morals are definitely in question.

I find this whole situation to be a tragedy, a tale of a fallen hero, even if he is "innocent".