Bidwills getting a bad rap on the board...

[red desert]

in my opinion.

Can't believe I'm typing this, but that's how I see the current situation.

I, like so many of you, have been justifiably critical of ownership over the years (38 years to be exact) but the current failures are not really on them, UNLESS they don't make changes at the end of the season.

Here's my thinking.

When Michael Bidwill hired Wiz, most applauded. MB even green lit the mill or so that Haley was paid as an assistant, as I recall. FO is committed was the feeling most expressed on the board. And no longer cheap!! I agreed. Earlier MB had signed Warner, at someone's behest to be sure, but he cut the check. Then he signed Edge to even greater fanfare. Cheap no longer was the call. I agreed.

At then came our Super Bowl run which justified all of the above.

It was about this time a gentle and glorious consensus fell upon the board -- MB has changed the way the Cardinals do business! More than that, he has changed the culture!! I wholeheartedly agreed. And still do.

So, as part of this new and improved culture, MB gave Wiz an extension. Hello? As many of you wanted, heck, demanded! Dude was listening. He was being proactive which is what we all wanted. Still want. Que no?

Problem is, he entrusted Wiz. IMO, that was the mistake he made. And Graves, to a lessor degree I think.

Of the two, I believe Wiz is the bigger culprit in our current morass. MB did what he believed was right for the team with signing Kolb. He did it because Wiz told him he's the guy. Graves may or may not have been on board with Kolb. In any case, I don't think MB cuts a monster check to bring in Kolb unless Wiz tells him he da guy. Add to this the ridiculous handling of the QB situation and no wonder that confusion abounds... but MB, I think, entrusted Wiz, like so many wanted. Give Wiz the power to mold the team in his image, or something like that. MB did exactly that. He has opened his checkbook. The blame for the lack of an NFL o-line can't be placed on MBs front step, imo.


He gave Wiz much more than fair shot. Wiz screwed the pooch.


Just my opinion.

 

[Cheesebeef]

the Bidwills forced Kurt Warner, who had just taken this team to the Super Bowl, to go to San Francisco in order to get the contract he deserved.

there's no rap bad enough for those guys.

 

[red desert]

the Bidwills forced Kurt Warner, who had just taken this team to the Super Bowl, to go to San Francisco in order to get the contract he deserved.

there's no rap bad enough for those guys.

 

[Garthshort]

cheesebeef, you think that the Bidwills weren't being "advised" by RG and/or KW on how to handle the KW negotiations? If so I have some land for sale?

 

[CtCardinals78]

I agree I think the Bidwill's are getting a bad rap as well. They have been doing the right things and are trying to put together a winning team.

 

[Shane]

cheesebeef, you think that the Bidwills weren't being "advised" by RG and/or KW on how to handle the KW negotiations? If so I have some land for sale?

Bid wills don't need to be advised on anything.nthey have owned and operated this team for 40 years. Their gonna do what they do.

 

[Bodha]

How do you explain Rod Graves tenure?





No other failure GM has ever, or will ever, hold onto that job for as long as he has.



???

 

[CtCardinals78]

How do you explain Rod Graves tenure?





No other failure GM has ever, or will ever, hold onto that job for as long as he has.



???

I agree he did a bad job in the past, but in the past three years he has stepped aside and appears to have ceded control to others. He has been doing a really nice job with the contracts lately, getting key players extended long term.

 

[Cheesebeef]

cheesebeef, you think that the Bidwills weren't being "advised" by RG and/or KW on how to handle the KW negotiations? If so I have some land for sale?

I think big money decisions and seeing just how cheap you can get guys ALWAYS comes from the top.

 

[Shane]

Five years or so ago when Atlanta hit rock bottom, their owner jumped out front and center, personally apologized to the fans, lowered tickets to 10 bucks in the upper bowl, to show some good faith in addition to the apology. Most importantly, built a team that is solid on both sides of the ball, that will be in the playoffs for years to come and could very well get a Lombardi. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for our apology.

True. but you also have an owner who is likely in the Forbes top 100 in Arthur Blank. No such luxuries with the Bidwill's unfortunately!

 

[Cheesebeef]

True. but you also have an owner who is likely in the Forbes top 100 in Arthur Blank. No such luxuries with the Bidwill's unfortunately!

these guys aren't paupers Shane. They're owners in the biggest sport in the country, have their own stadium and make gobs of money through revenue sharing. Their life IS luxury.

 

[Mitch]

in my opinion.

Can't believe I'm typing this, but that's how I see the current situation.

I, like so many of you, have been justifiably critical of ownership over the years (38 years to be exact) but the current failures are not really on them, UNLESS they don't make changes at the end of the season.

Here's my thinking.

When Michael Bidwill hired Wiz, most applauded. MB even green lit the mill or so that Haley was paid as an assistant, as I recall. FO is committed was the feeling most expressed on the board. And no longer cheap!! I agreed. Earlier MB had signed Warner, at someone's behest to be sure, but he cut the check. Then he signed Edge to even greater fanfare. Cheap no longer was the call. I agreed.

At then came our Super Bowl run which justified all of the above.

It was about this time a gentle and glorious consensus fell upon the board -- MB has changed the way the Cardinals do business! More than that, he has changed the culture!! I wholeheartedly agreed. And still do.

So, as part of this new and improved culture, MB gave Wiz an extension. Hello? As many of you wanted, heck, demanded! Dude was listening. He was being proactive which is what we all wanted. Still want. Que no?

Problem is, he entrusted Wiz. IMO, that was the mistake he made. And Graves, to a lessor degree I think.

Of the two, I believe Wiz is the bigger culprit in our current morass. MB did what he believed was right for the team with signing Kolb. He did it because Wiz told him he's the guy. Graves may or may not have been on board with Kolb. In any case, I don't think MB cuts a monster check to bring in Kolb unless Wiz tells him he da guy. Add to this the ridiculous handling of the QB situation and no wonder that confusion abounds... but MB, I think, entrusted Wiz, like so many wanted. Give Wiz the power to mold the team in his image, or something like that. MB did exactly that. He has opened his checkbook. The blame for the lack of an NFL o-line can't be placed on MBs front step, imo.


He gave Wiz much more than fair shot. Wiz screwed the pooch.


Just my opinion.

You will be proven correct, RD, if the Bidwills handle this situation properly and in a timely fashion. Like you I want to believe that they are more committed to winning---what concerned me was their ho-hum reaction after going to a Super Bowl based on what little they did personnel-wise to try to get the team back there afterward---to the tune of nearly losing Kurt Warner and adding no quality upgrades in need areas...that and ripping the fans and the team off by spending as little as they could the year before the lockout---that, imo, was egregious.

They are making a stronger effort to keep the core intact---and the PR for those moves has been good (sometimes I get the feeling that they think that's enough to keep the fans happy)---but when you do nothing with $7M still in cap space and its obvious moves needs to be made at T and at QB (esp. after Kolb got hurt)---that makes you wonder just how willing and/or able they are to doing what it takes to win.

 

[Shane]

these guys aren't paupers Shane. They're owners in the biggest sport in the country, have their own stadium and make gobs of money through revenue sharing. Their life IS luxury.

Never said they weren't rich. but they aren't arthur blank and to think they will ever run their business in the same manner that guys like him and Jerry Jones and the Redskins and Seahawks owner is beyond silly and quite frankly a little ludicrous.

 

[JeffGollin]

I don't know whether or not the Bidwills are getting a bad rap, because I don't know how decisions go down behind the scenes - especially those which worked out and those (like QB lately) which did not.

Were there individual staffers who drove some of these decisions? Or has it been consistently a matter of "collective stupidity?" Do the dudes who make the right personnel calls gain influence on such matters in the future? Or are their opinions given short shrift? How does the process work? How has it worked out in specific instances? How is credit/blame pinpointed.

Without knowing this, we're left with (fairly or unfairly) blaming the Bidwills because everything flows from the top and the offense has been an embarrassment all season. I just wish we fans knew more about how things actually go down in the FO.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Forbes put the value of the Cardinals at 901 million last year.

They were bought for $50,000 in 1932. I don't think anyone needs to pass the hat for the Bidwills.

 

[Shane]

Forbes put the value of the Cardinals at 901 million last year.

Thats mainly due to the stadium and just a # that they believe it would take as an outsider to buy them. It certainly isnt the net worth of the Bidwills that much I can guarantee.

 

[red desert]

You will be proven correct, RD, if the Bidwills handle this situation properly and in a timely fashion. Like you I want to believe that they are more committed to winning---what concerned me was their ho-hum reaction after going to a Super Bowl based on what little they did personnel-wise to try to get the team back there afterward---to the tune of nearly losing Kurt Warner and adding no quality upgrades in need areas...that and ripping the fans and the team off by spending as little as they could the year before the lockout---that, imo, was egregious.

They are making a stronger effort to keep the core intact---and the PR for those moves has been good (sometimes I get the feeling that they think that's enough to keep the fans happy)---but when you do nothing with $7M still in cap space and its obvious moves needs to be made at T and at QB (esp. after Kolb got hurt)---that makes you wonder just how willing and/or able they are to doing what it takes to win.

You make good points. As to the wasted cap space, I have to wonder if under Wiz's helm it would have truly made a difference or if it would have been wasted on washed up Steelers and/or aging TEs. I think enough was done money-wise to demand a better team on Sundays. Don't get me wrong, Bidwills aren't on my Christmas list, but they have evolved, mostly for the better.

 

[red desert]

Without knowing this, we're left with (fairly or unfairly) blaming the Bidwills because everything flows from the top and the offense has been an embarrassment all season. I just wish we fans knew more about how things actually go down in the FO.

Or blaming Wiz and his lack of football acumen. Given your anaysis, I think both views are equally valid and equally based on nothing more than "gut" reaction.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Thats mainly due to the stadium and just a # that they believe it would take as an outsider to buy them. It certainly isnt the net worth of the Bidwills that much I can guarantee.

I realize that isn't cash under the mattress.

But, bottom line IMO, the Bidwills are responsible for the team. They own it. They need to own it.

 

[Shane]

I realize that isn't cash under the mattress.

But, bottom line IMO, the Bidwills are responsible for the team. They own it. They need to own it.

True. But anyone expecting them to act and spend like guys who are billionaires outside of football is just silly. Its just not going to happen. No matter how much you guys wish it so.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Well they deserve part of the blame along with Whisenhunt. It was the front office that insisted on trying to get something out of the Leinart investment long after the coaching staff wanted to trade him away. They also went cheap and wouldn't bring in a vet in 2010 once Whiz told them Matty and DA couldn't get it done. And I don't know this for sure but I'm willing to bet that Whisenhunt likely wanted to bring in a vet once Kolb went down and was shot down.

Whiz deserves all the criticism he is getting but the Bidwills have never been (nor unfortunately will ever be) good NFL owners. The family's incompetence and dysfunction as a whole will never allow it. I have heard people compare them to the Bluth's.

 

[overseascardfan]

I like Michael Bidwill, you can tell the man just wants to win and is a guy that connects with the fans which is very rare for ownership. His old man is a different story as he was in the running on a yearly basis for worst owner in sports. I think he made the right choice in turning day to day operations over to his son. I think Michael makes some changes this offseason as I am sure he hates watching this team go down the crapper as much as we do.

 

[Mulli]

Well they deserve part of the blame along with Whisenhunt. It was the front office that insisted on trying to get something out of the Leinart investment long after the coaching staff wanted to trade him away. They also went cheap and wouldn't bring in a vet in 2010 once Whiz told them Matty and DA couldn't get it done. And I don't know this for sure but I'm willing to bet that Whisenhunt likely wanted to bring in a vet once Kolb went down and was shot down.

Whiz deserves all the criticism he is getting but the Bidwills have never been (nor unfortunately will ever be) good NFL owners. The family's incompetence and dysfunction as a whole will never allow it. I have heard people compare them to the Bluth's.

:number1::number1::number1:

 

[red desert]

Well they deserve part of the blame along with Whisenhunt. It was the front office that insisted on trying to get something out of the Leinart investment long after the coaching staff wanted to trade him away. They also went cheap and wouldn't bring in a vet in 2010 once Whiz told them Matty and DA couldn't get it done. And I don't know this for sure but I'm willing to bet that Whisenhunt likely wanted to bring in a vet once Kolb went down and was shot down.

Whiz deserves all the criticism he is getting but the Bidwills have never been (nor unfortunately will ever be) good NFL owners. The family's incompetence and dysfunction as a whole will never allow it. I have heard people compare them to the Bluth's.

No doubt they deserve part of the blame, not saying otherwise. They did allow Wiz to hire and keep Grimm around all these years.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I like Michael Bidwill, you can tell the man just wants to win and is a guy that connects with the fans which is very rare for ownership. His old man is a different story as he was in the running on a yearly basis for worst owner in sports. I think he made the right choice in turning day to day operations over to his son. I think Michael makes some changes this offseason as I am sure he hates watching this team go down the crapper as much as we do.

The whole "wants to win" description is nonsense. Every sports owner wants to win. Just like every player who laces them up in any sports wants to win. What defines the great owners from the owners like the Bidwills are what they are willing to sacrifice and how hard they want to work to get there. Same as what separates great players from the rest.

But Michael is certainly better than his father no doubt but let's be honest that bar is set pretty damn low. Bill Sr. if born in the last ten years would've been diagnosed with some sort of mental illness. The guy's a complete weirdo. But MB is still widely despised by most of the power players in the Valley and still makes poor business decisions that involve the Cardinals and their other investments. I won't even go into the rest of the family screwups that are suckling off the NFL ****.