2023-24 Around the NBA Thread

Yuma

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Btw, Jalen Smith wasn't a terrible draft pick. Giving up on him was.
I'd say he's average to good. Not a great player. I think part of giving up on him was the timeline. Winning now you really don't want to spend 5 seasons waiting for that payoff. Seems weird thinking Ayton was here 5 seasons.
 
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I'd say he's average to good. Not a great player. I think part of giving up on him was the timeline. Winning now you really don't want to spend 5 seasons waiting for that payoff. Seems weird thinking Ayton was here 5 seasons.

He is definitely better than a few Suns players I can name that were here last season and this season. Of course, the price tag makes a difference.
 
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The NBA is looking into the allegations regarding Josh Giddey.

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Raindog

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Maybe, but Monty didn't seem keen on playing Jalen Smith and if he did, he made him a corner shooter.

Jalen Smith played well under Kevin Young when Monty was out. He allowed Smith to play his game.
It seems pretty clear to me from his time here that Monty is too mercurial to develop younger talent. Guys seem to fall in and out of favor with him at the drop of a hat, and who is more likely to make mistakes and wind up in his doghouse than rookies or younger players?
 

AzStevenCal

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Btw, Jalen Smith wasn't a terrible draft pick. Giving up on him was.
I think he was a terrible draft pick, just not a terrible prospect. He was raw and we had neither the desire nor the structure within which to develop him. Getting rid of our G League team was a poorly thought out decision, I hope whoever was truly behind it is gone or has come to grips with just how bad that idea was.
 
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Mainstreet

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I think he was a terrible draft pick, just not a terrible prospect. He was raw and we had neither the desire nor the structure within which to develop him. Getting rid of our G League team was a poorly thought out decision, I hope whoever was truly behind it is gone or has come to grips with just how bad that idea was.

Jalen Smith shouldn't have been drafted at 10, period.

I think we know why the Suns don't have a G-League team under Sarver, saving money.
 
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AzStevenCal

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Jalen Smith shouldn't have been drafted at 10, period.
I'm certain that played a role in the decision but what we don't know is
would they have gone that way if it weren't for JJ's preference for veterans over youth? Even in win now mode, we need to be able to develop young players.
 
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Mainstreet

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I'm certain that played a role in the decision but what we don't know is
would they have gone that way if it weren't for JJ's preference for veterans over youth? Even in win now mode, we need to be able to develop young players.

I think we are in complete agreement the Suns need to be able to develop young players.

Hopefully, Mat Ishbia has a plan in the works for a G-League team.

I simply think Smith was not ready to play at the NBA level when the Suns drafted him because his body had not fully developed and he was primarily a center. If he is going to develop into a PF he needs time and minutes.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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For me, it was clear that Haliburton was the BPA. IMO, a team has to swing for the fences and draft him and worry about the consequences later.

Now, if James Jones had traded down or out of the draft because there were too many unanswered questions about him, I could better understand a move like this.

There was a rumor Deni Avdija might fall to the Suns and didn't. This still leaves egg on the face of the GM because all the options were not covered.
This was my camp. I was celebrating when Haliburton dropped to our pick. Ask cheese. I was NOT happy about passing on him. You take talent, period. Don’t let his agent playing games dissuade you from that.
 

Raindog

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This was my camp. I was celebrating when Haliburton dropped to our pick. Ask cheese. I was NOT happy about passing on him. You take talent, period. Don’t let his agent playing games dissuade you from that.
I don't think Monty wanted to coach any rookies, and would have been fine just dumping all the Suns picks when he was coaching here.

And James Jones would only grudgingly draft guys... if they were pushing like 25 years old and/or were what he determined to be "high character." Which, in theory is all well and good, but sometimes you really do need to go for talent above all else.
 

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Unlike most here, I agree with why we didn't go after Haliburton. But if that reason was all smoke, and as the previous poster suggested, we actually passed on Haliburton in order to select Jalen Smith, it's possibly the dumbest decision this franchise has ever made. Personally, I don't believe the two decisions were related. We made the decision to not draft someone we could get no medical or personal data on and then made the decision to draft a raw player (into an organization not set up for developing raw players).

The fact that Stix was such a reach, like Cam Johnson prior makes me think it had more to do with Smith than Halliburton. Also they might’ve been dumb enough at the time to think Payne’s performance in the bubble impacted the position we picked.
 
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The fact that Stix was such a reach, like Cam Johnson prior makes me think it had more to do with Smith than Halliburton. Also they might’ve been dumb enough at the time to think Payne’s performance in the bubble impacted the position we picked.

With Halliburton, I get Karl Malone flashbacks.

The Suns passed on Malone. As I recall, one of the reasons was because he didn't work out for the Suns because he thought he would be drafted earlier.
 

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Jalen Smith shouldn't have been drafted at 10, period.

I think we know why the Suns don't have a G-League team under Sarver, saving money.
I agree he shouldn't have been picked at 10 if the team has no plans for him ....whether that's in game or g league plans. The moment they got CP3 win mode began & the Suns knew 48 hours in advance of the draft. So having CP3 there's no way the Suns were picking Haliburton because Payne was the direction they were going. Medicals or no Medicals CP3 wanted full control of that position....as well as Jones & Monty saying they only wanted a veteran at the #1 spot.
 
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Russ Smith

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THey kind of talked around it without outright saying it last night on ESPN but is an interesting idea especially with Popovich, are the Spurs tanking to get another high pick?

The reason they're asking is obvious, they start Sochan at PG with Tre Jones off the bench. So far on the year they're something like 22 points better with Jones on the floor than they are with Sochan on the floor. They're the worst offensive team in the NBA with Sochan at PG, he's not a PG. They're actually quite good on offense with Jones at PG.

If you look at the numbers the single biggest reason they are losing so much is that lineup decision. So is Pop just playing for the future, or are they tanking?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I agree he shouldn't have been picked at 10 if the team has no plans for him ....whether that's in game or g league plans. The moment they got CP3 win mode began & the Suns knew 48 hours in advance of the draft. So having CP3 there's no way the Suns were picking Haliburton because Payne was the direction they were going. Medicals or no Medicals CP3 wanted full control of that position....as well as Jones & Monty saying they only wanted a veteran at the #1 spot.
And they were stupid.
 
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Mainstreet

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I agree he shouldn't have been picked at 10 if the team has no plans for him ....whether that's in game or g league plans. The moment they got CP3 win mode began & the Suns knew 48 hours in advance of the draft. So having CP3 there's no way the Suns were picking Haliburton because Payne was the direction they were going. Medicals or no Medicals CP3 wanted full control of that position....as well as Jones & Monty saying they only wanted a veteran at the #1 spot.

I think this heavily influenced the Suns thought process when they passed on Haliburton at #10. However, it's contrary to the axiom, always draft the best player available. And clearly Haliburton was the BPA.

IMO, never pass on BPA no matter how many players a team has at the same position. It's like passing on a gold nugget because you already have one.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I think this heavily influenced the Suns thought process when they passed on Haliburton at #10. However, it's contrary to the axiom, always draft the best player available. And clearly Haliburton was the BPA.

IMO, never pass on BPA no matter how many players a team has at the same position. It's like passing on a gold nugget because you already have one.
And things change so quickly in the nba. Paul only played three seasons for us. The crazy thing is to think this current team could be as it is currently constructed PLUS a Haliburton or sabonis. It just goes to show you what an atrocious decision that was by jones.
 

Fumats20

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CP3 was a powerful NBA figure. What he wanted he was going to get...and that was him in sole charge. The Suns knew that and in order to get him had to comply.

The Suns made a chose and won their conference & made the finals.

Ironically them 2 making history together & separately as we speak...and they just 23...no where near their prime....Dumb, stupid, 20 20 hindsight choice in all....and the player the Suns labeled a bust ain't living up that label...and yes the Suns should not have taken him at 10 they should have trade the pick starting draft night. They had offers.

That's poor asset management. It's not unquie to the Suns.
 
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AzStevenCal

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I think this heavily influenced the Suns thought process when they passed on Haliburton at #10. However, it's contrary to the axiom, always draft the best player available. And clearly Haliburton was the BPA.

IMO, never pass on BPA no matter how many players a team has at the same position. It's like passing on a gold nugget because you already have one.
I disagree that Haliburton was "clearly" the BPA. He was fairly well regarded but scouts had concerns about his poor defense, lack of foot speed and his 3 point shot. There were questions about whether his game would transfer to the NBA and many thought he'd need to play next to a quick guard that could help cover his weaknesses. He was clearly a better player than Smith but I don't think that was ever the question. Nor do I believe we passed on him because Chris Paul insisted on controlling the PG spot. But if those reasons we were incredibly shortsighted.
 

AzStevenCal

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CP3 was a powerful NBA figure. What he wanted he was going to get...and that was him in sole charge. The Suns knew that and in order to get him had to comply.

The Suns made a chose.

Ironically them 2 making history together & separately as we speak...and they just 23...no where near their prime....Dumb, stupid, 20 20 hindsight choice in all....and the player the Suns labeled a bust ain't living up that label.
I just don't think it's hindsight, at all. Rookies are risky but Haliburton had a lot of supporters here and throughout the league. Some questions too and it was just bad luck for many of us that we didn't get a chance to have those questions answered.

The shortened college season, no conference tournaments, no March Madness tournament, no private workouts, no medical records and no background investigation coupled with the agent claiming he'd never sign with anyone but Sacramento were the reasons we passed on such a strong prospect. At least I hope that's why. If we did it for any of the reasons you offer, there's just no defense IMO. CP3 was never more than a stopgap.
 
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I disagree that Haliburton was "clearly" the BPA. He was fairly well regarded but scouts had concerns about his poor defense, lack of foot speed and his 3 point shot. There were questions about whether his game would transfer to the NBA and many thought he'd need to play next to a quick guard that could help cover his weaknesses. He was clearly a better player than Smith but I don't think that was ever the question. Nor do I believe we passed on him because Chris Paul insisted on controlling the PG spot. But if those reasons we were incredibly shortsighted.

We can agree to disagree. I don't think anyone thought Haliburton would fall to #10.

I guess this and drafting Ayton #1 will be talking points for years to come.
 

Fumats20

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I just don't think it's hindsight, at all. Rookies are risky but Haliburton had a lot of supporters here and throughout the league. Some questions too and it was just bad luck for many of us that we didn't get a chance to have those questions answered.

The shortened college season, no conference tournaments, no March Madness tournament, no private workouts, no medical records and no background investigation coupled with the agent claiming he'd never sign with anyone but Sacramento were the reasons we passed on such a strong prospect. At least I hope that's why. If we did it for any of the reasons you offer, there's just no defense IMO. CP3 was never more than a stopgap.
CP3 age alone screamed stop gap.

But the Suns got 3 contending years out of him v.s. 6 developing years out of a rookie (not knowing when contending will come after that) . Once CP3 left, the Suns have again tacked on "contening" years....not developing years.
 
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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I disagree that Haliburton was "clearly" the BPA. He was fairly well regarded but scouts had concerns about his poor defense, lack of foot speed and his 3 point shot. There were questions about whether his game would transfer to the NBA and many thought he'd need to play next to a quick guard that could help cover his weaknesses. He was clearly a better player than Smith but I don't think that was ever the question. Nor do I believe we passed on him because Chris Paul insisted on controlling the PG spot. But if those reasons we were incredibly shortsighted.
While he had negatives he was very clearly the BPA at that point. This isn’t 20-20 hindsight. The commentators were shocked he was falling. Just look at the draft thread.
 

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Jordan Poole has a plus minus of -12.7 so far this year. The NBA record worst over a full season is -9.6 by Theo Maledon in 2020-21.
 

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