2023-24 Around the NBA Thread

Chaplin

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Suns waived CP3? What does it mean?
Why? CP3 breaks down in the playoffs with us, what makes you think he won't break down on another team, Lakers or no?

CP3 doesn't really scare anybody nowadays. I like him and his IQ, but he's not a game changer anymore.
 

Finito

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Yuma

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It depends. No one is going to be overly concerned if either combination is clearly your top 2 players. But throw in half a dozen other players that aren't too far below that combo, then yeah, I'd be concerned. For us, once we made the trade, we were sort of like that - two scary players and a bunch of self inflicted nightmares playing behind them.
Well, we had that for two seasons and it didn't work. Thus the move for KD. The CP3/Booker combo, even with support, couldn't get it done.
 

AzStevenCal

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Well, we had that for two seasons and it didn't work. Thus the move for KD. The CP3/Booker combo, even with support, couldn't get it done.
I disagree. Yes they didn't get it done but that doesn't mean they couldn't get it done. It's not at all uncommon for good teams to build towards a championship and come up short a few times along the way. Nuking the roster wasn't the only way to go. CP3 unexpectedly aging out so soon after the finals year crippled us but that would have been a much easier fix than what we're looking at now.
 

Yuma

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I disagree. Yes they didn't get it done but that doesn't mean they couldn't get it done. It's not at all uncommon for good teams to build towards a championship and come up short a few times along the way. Nuking the roster wasn't the only way to go. CP3 unexpectedly aging out so soon after the finals year crippled us but that would have been a much easier fix than what we're looking at now.
That's the thing, can't prove what didn't happen. Like I said, we would have had CP3 and Booker as our two best guys. Almost everyone here says they want CP3 gone. You say he unexpectedly aged out too soon. I can't prove it, but I know we wouldn't have won it this year with that duo as our top two! Doesn't matter what bench we had.
 

AzStevenCal

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That's the thing, can't prove what didn't happen. Like I said, we would have had CP3 and Booker as our two best guys. Almost everyone here says they want CP3 gone. You say he unexpectedly aged out too soon. I can't prove it, but I know we wouldn't have won it this year with that duo as our top two! Doesn't matter what bench we had.
So you still saw CP3 as one of our two best players this season?

And I agree, there's almost no chance we could have won it with Booker and CP3 as our two best players. But IMO Bridges was already far more important than Chris and we had the assets to trade for another key player - not at Durant's level but when healthy we'd been one of the best teams in the league. It's unlikely we could have found the trade we needed at midseason so we may well have ended much as we did. But we wouldn't have been under the gun to fix everything overnight as we are now.
 

Yuma

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So you still saw CP3 as one of our two best players this season?

And I agree, there's almost no chance we could have won it with Booker and CP3 as our two best players. But IMO Bridges was already far more important than Chris and we had the assets to trade for another key player - not at Durant's level but when healthy we'd been one of the best teams in the league. It's unlikely we could have found the trade we needed at midseason so we may well have ended much as we did. But we wouldn't have been under the gun to fix everything overnight as we are now.
NO. But his salary makes him one of two stars of this team. That's the duo we would have headed into this playoffs if we did not make the KD trade. Doesn't matter what I think. That's how it would have been portrayed by the media, pundits, NBA insiders, etc.
 

Yuma

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We would have still been under the gun. The salaries of the trade had to be within a certain percentage. So we would have been under the gun with the cap anyway.
 

Hoop Head

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NO. But his salary makes him one of two stars of this team. That's the duo we would have headed into this playoffs if we did not make the KD trade. Doesn't matter what I think. That's how it would have been portrayed by the media, pundits, NBA insiders, etc.

Paul is making less than Ayton, for the record. He's now #4 in salary even if his option was picked up.
 

Yuma

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Paul is making less than Ayton, for the record. He's now #4 in salary even if his option was picked up.
Again, KD wouldn't be the top salary IF the trade was not made. That's what we were talking about. Sure Ayton makes $2 mil more, but no one on the list I mentioned is saying that it's Booker and Ayton's team. It would have been Booker and CP3. You're right by 2 mil. :)
 
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Mainstreet

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The Nuggets get it. This is how you maximize a championship window. Having good scouts help a lot.

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Covert Rain

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The Nuggets get it. This is how you maximize a championship window. Having good scouts help a lot.

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It's alot easier to "get it" when you have your big two solidified.
 
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Mainstreet

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It's alot easier to "get it" when you have your big two solidified.

So the Suns do not have a solid big two after trading for Durant?

Although, Durant is 8 years older than Booker.

The difference is the Nuggets are young and have built a very deep team. They will be a force to reckon with for years to come, while the Suns window shrinks if it is still open.

They are doing it the right way, which is the direction the Suns were once headed.
 

Proximo

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So the Suns do not have a solid big two after trading for Durant?

Although, Durant is 8 years older than Booker.

The difference is the Nuggets are young and have built a very deep team. They will be a force to reckon with for years to come, while the Suns window shrinks if it is still open.

They are doing it the right way, which is the direction the Suns were once headed.
Except we didn't really have a star #2.

I understand why we did the deal, we just gave up to much on too old of a player.
 
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Mainstreet

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Except we didn't really have a star #2.

I understand why we did the deal, we just gave up to much on too old of a player.

I liked the Suns previous foundation of Booker, Bridges, Cam Johnson, expiring contracts, draft picks and the ability to keep Ayton and Paul if they wanted. IMO, Bridges was the Suns next star.

This summer, they would have had a wide open market to improve the team with a myriad of trade options.

Now we are hoping the Suns can trade Paul and Ayton so they can field a competitive team.

I think fans get too locked onto the celebrity status of a soon-to-be a 35-year-old year player.
 

Covert Rain

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Uhhh...our top 2 are solidified....
My point was that you can afford to do minor tweaks when you have your big two. Not that the Suns don't have their big two now.
So the Suns do not have a solid big two after trading for Durant?

Although, Durant is 8 years older than Booker.

The difference is the Nuggets are young and have built a very deep team. They will be a force to reckon with for years to come, while the Suns window shrinks if it is still open.

They are doing it the right way, which is the direction the Suns were once headed.
We do now. However, the point was that Denver only needs to make small moves now that they have their big two. Your inference was "they know how to do it". Well, what they do might look way different if they didn't have Joker or Murray. The Suns didn't have their big two before the trade. No tweaks were going to give them the big two either. Maybe they could have made a different trade but it's very plausible another player of that caliber doesn't become available in the next window either. If that was the case, we are not getting past Denver anyway with just Booker and the bunch we had.

Except we didn't really have a star #2.
Yep. At best we had a part time #2 but he couldn't stay healthy in the playoffs and another guy who was supposed to be our #2 but has not lived up to his draft potential. Bridges was never going to be that guy here. He would have always been a cleanup, slasher type who spots up for 3's.
 
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Mainstreet

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My point was that you can afford to do minor tweaks when you have your big two. Not that the Suns don't have their big two now.

We do now. However, the point was that Denver only needs to make small moves now that they have their big two. Your inference was "they know how to do it". Well, what they do might look way different if they didn't have Joker or Murray. The Suns didn't have their big two before the trade. No tweaks were going to give them the big two either. Maybe they could have made a different trade but it's very plausible another player of that caliber doesn't become available in the next window either. If that was the case, we are not getting past Denver anyway with just Booker and the bunch we had.


Yep. At best we had a part time #2 but he couldn't stay healthy in the playoffs and another guy who was supposed to be our #2 but has not lived up to his draft potential. Bridges was never going to be that guy here. He would have always been a cleanup, slasher type who spots up for 3's.

How did the Nuggets get there? They drafted their players.

The Suns were following the same path nicely, even added a star in Chris Paul, until the front office decided they couldn't wait for our young players to develop.
 

JCSunsfan

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It's alot easier to "get it" when you have your big two solidified.
They took a risk with Porter. It could have blown up in their face. It could have gone either way. That wasn't skilled scouting, it was gambling. Sometimes you just have to get lucky.
 

Chaplin

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How did the Nuggets get there? They drafted their players.

The Suns were following the same path nicely, even added a star in Chris Paul, until the front office decided they couldn't wait for our young players to develop.
You continually talk about Denver drafting all their players, but since Nikola Jokic was drafted, only 4 of their draft picks are actually on the roster: Jamal Murray, Christian Braun, Zeke Njali and Michael Porter Jr. You are correct that their best draft picks are still on the roster, although much can be said for those they traded away like Donovan Mitchell.
 
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Mainstreet

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You continually talk about Denver drafting all their players, but since Nikola Jokic was drafted, only 4 of their draft picks are actually on the roster: Jamal Murray, Christian Braun, Zeke Njali and Michael Porter Jr. You are correct that their best draft picks are still on the roster, although much can be said for those they traded away like Donovan Mitchell.

I bet the Nuggets would like to have this draft day trade back.

Can you imagine Murray, Mitchell, Jokic and Porter all on the same team.
 

Covert Rain

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How did the Nuggets get there? They drafted their players.

The Suns were following the same path nicely, even added a star in Chris Paul, until the front office decided they couldn't wait for our young players to develop.
Do you know how many teams are trying to simultaneously do the same thing?! Only a handful ever get to the point of drafting their big two and Murray was pure luck and a result of pick swap in the 2011 trade at the #7 spot. You do realize how often a pick outside the top 3 is statistically a larger crap shoot? You just described every team in the NBA and a tactic the Suns have tried multiple times in it's history. It's possible but the vast majority fail and the vast majority don't home grow their big two into superstars. I think it has to be a balance of both to be sustainable. Most teams just can't hit year after year on their draft picks do just do it through the draft.
 

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