2020-21 Around the NBA Thread

Hoop Head

Hoop Head

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WhyAlwaysMe said:
Since Iverson was allowed to hand check why was he such an awful defender? You can’t have it both ways.

MVP voting is always about narrative, and often has far less to do with actual impact/value. To wit, in 2000-2001, the year the writers (lol) awarded him MVP AI was

19th in RAPM
10th in Win Shares
12th in WS/48
6th in BPM
6th in VORP

Lillard, this year, is

9th in RAPM
3rd in Win Shares
9th in WS/48
10th in BPM
5th in VORP

Impact metrics strip away all the awful biases that afflict media members that vote on awards. Lillard is absolutely in Iverson’s orbit. His peak is better.
Click to expand...


Advanced stats aren't everything. Did you ever watch AI play? I doubt it.

You also dismiss how far AI carried his team, while Lillard has struggled to get his team to the postseason a few times in the last few years.

My god, I didn't think anyone was more annoying than Slinslin was with advanced stats but WAMWAM seems to be worse than Slin ever was.
 
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I tend to believe that a player who is great in one era would probably be at least very good in another, and likely great with some natural game adjustments. It’s the replacement-level players in one era that would be out of the league if their specialty was out of practice in another.
 
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Hoop Head said:
Advanced stats aren't everything. Did you ever watch AI play? I doubt it.

You also dismiss how far AI carried his team, while Lillard has struggled to get his team to the postseason a few times in the last few years.

My god, I didn't think anyone was more annoying than Slinslin was with advanced stats but WAMWAM seems to be worse than Slin ever was.
Click to expand...

I did watch AI play. I had an AI jersey. As a child. He was revolutionary in terms of handling, style, and 1v1 expertise. He was extraordinarily flashy, which made him highly admired, but also is a major factor in leading to observation bias. Plenty of Suns fans didn’t want to lose Kelly Oubre because of endowment bias and observation bias: he was flashy.

I have also watched Damian Lillard and he is incredibly dynamic. When you have two really dynamic players, according to the eye test, then advanced stats and impact metrics can supplement your evaluation. They’re necessary, but not sufficient, tools. And they can cover for some biases inherent to the eye test. Of course they are not the sole measure for assessing value, and the eye test and other factors can properly influence and cover for biases inherent to noisy data. It is pure foolishness to rely on only one form of data.


If you actually read my previous post you would know that Lillard has played in a MUCH tougher conference against MUCH MUCH tougher competition than AI ever had. That is why he hasn’t had as much playoff success as AI. Not because AI is clearly better.

Iverson was 6-6 in playoff series in Philly as top dog and missed the playoffs three times. Lillard is 4-8 in playoff series and missed only once. Iverson never beat a team in a playoff series as good as any of the teams Lillard has faced, with the exception of the 2018 Pelicans.
 
Superbone

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Mainstreet said:
HOW DOES MONTY WILLIAMS NOT WIN NBA COACH OF THE YEAR. :madarms:
Click to expand...
It must have been the playoff results that rocketed Thibs above Monty. Yeah, I know. It's a regular season award. I think last year's bubble play hurt Monty's chances. At least Monty got the more important coach of the year award from his peers.
 
Mainstreet

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More on the voting details for NBA Coach of the Year.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 
Hoop Head

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Superbone said:
It must have been the playoff results that rocketed Thibs above Monty. Yeah, I know. It's a regular season award. I think last year's bubble play hurt Monty's chances. At least Monty got the more important coach of the year award from his peers.
Click to expand...

That doesn't make sense. The Knicks got owned by the Hawks in the playoffs so I'm not sure how that helped secure the win for Thibs.
 
Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Hoop Head said:
That's a bit ridiculous. For those curious, Steph made a post about Seth killing it the other night and Morey shared the post while writing "Join'em" in the quote tweet. Definitely not worth a fine, IMO.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
Click to expand...
It’s not ridiculous. It’s exactly what the rule was meant for.
 
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