2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[JCSunsfan]

You might be right in terms of “tested” athleticism. But in terms of “in court” athleticism there’s a pretty big difference. Bridges will get swatted in scenarios where JJ has taken contact and finished through. It’s functional athleticism.

I think we actually have the best example of the difference between the two on our own team in booker. If I recall booker shocked people with his athletic testing prior to the draft, but people were shocked because it hadn’t manifested itself at Kentucky and even watching him play in the nba, he’s clearly not “unathletic” but I don’t think he functionally plays to his levels of tested athleticism. His play is not reminiscent of the top athletes in the league past and present.

This is my point. Players who are highly skilled tend to look less athletic on the court because its not the only tool in their tool box. Yet Booker puts that athleticism to work when he needs it. Tatum is that way too. So is Bridges. If JJ develops the skills, he will look a bit less athletic as well.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't think Ayton doesn't have any "dog" in him, I just think he's being a bit tentative because it's early in his rookie season.

JJ wasn’t tentative even a bit. His hunger drove him, even if he was outta control.

Ayton never seems angry. Never chippy. He’s a big rich happy kid. At some point that has to change. I’m not saying it won’t. It takes different triggers for diffferent people.

I remember playing Pop Warner when I was 12. Because I sprouted young I had to play with high school freshmen. I was bigger than all of them but I was a big happy kid. It wasn’t until my coach made me run Oklahoma drills over and over again, harshing on me until I was crying that I snapped hit our best player square in the chest lifted him off his feet and drove him hard into the turf knocking the wind outta him. At that point the entire team was jumping up and down hollering and slapping my helmet and Coach was just smiling. I finally got it. I finally found the dog in me. And I liked it. It was harsh going through that but it made me a much better player. My mother would have hated seeing it happen though . . . I’m sure she never would have let me go back had she witnessed it.

It’s that point when you finally realize your full capabilities and that you aren’t going to take sheesh from anyone. I don’t think Ayton fully understands or appreciates the vehicle he’s driving and what it’s capable of. It needs to be unlocked.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I guess he was thinking preseason, but that really is not very much of a real indicator.

I don’t think he was. I think that’s the joke, Anderson’s been so bad that the difference between his play and someone not playing at all is negligible.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This is my point. Players who are highly skilled tend to look less athletic on the court because its not the only tool in their tool box. Yet Booker puts that athleticism to work when he needs it. Tatum is that way too. So is Bridges. If JJ develops the skills, he will look a bit less athletic as well.

Yeah I don’t buy that. Lebron is perhaps the most skilled player in the league. His athleticism still leaps off the screen at every instance. Those with functional athleticism are always obvious.

Bridges looked a bit intimidated driving the lane due to the fact that his athleticism doesn’t allow him to effectively challenge bigs. JJ never looks intimidated he comes forcing his will and scoring through contact. It’s his functional athleticism that allows him to do so.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think that’s the point he was making tongue in cheek.

Reading Comp FAIL...DOH!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah I don’t buy that. Lebron is perhaps the most skilled player in the league. His athleticism still leaps off the screen at every instance. Those with functional athleticism are always obvious.

Bridges looked a bit intimidated driving the lane due to the fact that his athleticism doesn’t allow him to effectively challenge bigs. JJ never looks intimidated he comes forcing his will and scoring through contact. It’s his functional athleticism that allows him to do so.

Hmm. I will watch closer for this.

 

[AzStevenCal]

What sample size? From what I can tell, Chriss hasn't played a regular season minute...

Maybe you missed the final sentence in my post? The gap between them might narrow though as soon as Marquese actually gets into a game

I guess he was thinking preseason, but that really is not very much of a real indicator.

See the bolded above.

I think that’s the point he was making tongue in cheek.

Yes, it was tongue in cheek but valid IMO. Chriss has always been a net negative so not playing is an improvement over him taking the court. Anderson has been so bad though that even playing Chriss major minutes would likely leave him the far superior performer. To date.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Maybe you missed the final sentence in my post? The gap between them might narrow though as soon as Marquese actually gets into a game

See the bolded above.



Yes, it was tongue in cheek but valid IMO. Chriss has always been a net negative so not playing is an improvement over him taking the court. Anderson has been so bad though that even playing Chriss major minutes would likely leave him the far superior performer. To date.

 

[95pro]

This is my point. Players who are highly skilled tend to look less athletic on the court because its not the only tool in their tool box. Yet Booker puts that athleticism to work when he needs it. Tatum is that way too. So is Bridges. If JJ develops the skills, he will look a bit less athletic as well.

When is the last time you've seen Booker dunk on someone?
He's average in athleticism.

I see guys like Mitchel, Smith Jr, and even Tatum finish and dunk on someone. They're highly skilled as well.

 

[SirStefan32]

He might be. I am not sure if JJ was ever really tested. JJ's game seems to be all athleticism. If he had Bridges skill set, he might not seem as athletic because he would play more under control. Mikal is longer than JJ, that is a measurable we know about. Athleticism is by no means a limitation for Bridges.

It is an interesting ongoing discussion. This is just how it looks to me presently.

Oh I agree. I like Bridges a lot. I just think that JJ is a freak of nature when it comes to athleticism.

 

[Hoop Head]

When is the last time you've seen Booker dunk on someone?
He's average in athleticism.

I see guys like Mitchel, Smith Jr, and even Tatum finish and dunk on someone. They're highly skilled as well.

Athleticism is much more than dunking.

 

[95pro]

Athleticism is much more than dunking.

I didn't say dunking is the only thing that matters and measures athleticism. The ability to finish or blow by someone, get that second rebound, block someone, hit passing lanes for steals, breakaway finishes, etc. I get it there's more to it.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Ouchie-Z-Clown said: ↑
Can we just stop with the whole hindering the growth of booker nonsense?
SirStefan32 said: ↑
This, this, a thousand times this!
AzStevenCal said:
Squared, cubed and to the 10th power.

well, we all forgot to factor in Booker working so hard to compensate for a distributor that he injures himself AGAIN

that's a real growth inhibitor

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

well, we all forgot to factor in Booker working so hard to compensate for a distributor that he injures himself AGAIN

that's a real growth inhibitor

Lol. Hurting his hamstring as he drove for a shot . . . yeah that’s because he was compensating and playing pg. just awful awful argument. Awful. Did I say awful? Awful.

 

[SirStefan32]

Lol. Hurting his hamstring as he drove for a shot . . . yeah that’s because he was compensating and playing pg. just awful awful argument. Awful. Did I say awful? Awful.

Shooting guards don't drive to the hoop, don't you know?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Lol. Hurting his hamstring as he drove for a shot . . . yeah that’s because he was compensating and playing pg. just awful awful argument. Awful. Did I say awful? Awful.

Imagine how hard he would be working if he was running around off ball screens non stop on offense. That would probably take more energy than what he has been exerting.

 

[1tinsoldier]

ok, now the 3 of you are just being argumentative

if someone collided with him -- THAT would be an isolated incident

but Booker now has a history of being injured in areas that are stressed
and i'll bet i can find a quote from each one of you saying "Booker is working too hard"
and you "don't want him playing pg because it's too much of a load"

so, your comments are a load

 

[Hoop Head]

ok, now the 3 of you are just being argumentative

if someone collided with him -- THAT would be an isolated incident

but Booker now has a history of being injured in areas that are stressed
and i'll bet i can find a quote from each one of you saying "Booker is working too hard"
and you "don't want him playing pg because it's too much of a load"

so, your comments are a load

Needing to get help on the team for Booker and him doing too much because we lack talent around him is different than him injuring himself because he's playing PG. Hamstring injuries are generally freak accidents that can't be avoided though. The only thing that can be done now is making sure he's healthy when he returns because we don't want him to be hobbled like KJ was. I don't think that will be an issue but even if it is, it's not because he'll be playing PG when he returns.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

ok, now the 3 of you are just being argumentative

if someone collided with him -- THAT would be an isolated incident

but Booker now has a history of being injured in areas that are stressed
and i'll bet i can find a quote from each one of you saying "Booker is working too hard"
and you "don't want him playing pg because it's too much of a load"

so, your comments are a load

You can’t find a single quote from me along any of those lines of thinking because those are just stupid thoughts. But you said you would “bet” you can find one of those that I said. I’ll bite. Bet me $500. I’ll tell you where to send the cash

 

[1tinsoldier]

I’ll bite.

yes. bite me

 

[SirStefan32]

yes. bite me

Really, dude? You've been here for six months, you are going to try to argue, lose the argument badly, and you are going to come back with that response? How about you let the grown-up who have been here (and on the previous board) for nearly 20 years talk and discuss things, and you go back to whatever middle school you came from? Get that middle school crap out of here!

 

[1tinsoldier]

Really, dude? You've been here for six months, you are going to try to argue, lose the argument badly, and you are going to come back with that response? How about you let the grown-up who have been here (and on the previous board) for nearly 20 years talk and discuss things, and you go back to whatever middle school you came from? Get that middle school crap out of here!

how many months do i have to be here to succinctly respond to a "grown-up" who said my point was "stupid" and wants to bet me $500 and tell me what bank to send it to? because, "dude", if that mattered, between this and another sun's board, i've also put in 20 years and thousands of posts (and i was the admin of a political forum for over 15 years).

he said, "i'll bite", i said "bite me." so what? by your rules, i was qualified to respond to his needlessly aggressive, immature post. and now yours

i wonder if others agree there is hierarchy here and you and your friend are atop the pecking order?

 

[1tinsoldier]

as for "losing the argument badly"???
there may be 1 in a thousand NBA players
durable enough to handle pg duties and be a top scorer in the league
but health records indicate his name is Harden, not Booker

 

[Hoop Head]

how many months do i have to be here to succinctly respond to a "grown-up" who said my point was "stupid" and wants to bet me $500 and tell me what bank to send it to? because, "dude", if that mattered, between this and another sun's board, i've also put in 20 years and thousands of posts (and i was the admin of a political forum for over 15 years).

so, "bite me" was admittedly crude, but by your rules,
a qualified response to his needlessly aggressive, immature post
and now yours

I agree with a lot of what you say here. I don't think the length you've been posting here matters much, if at all, beyond your first month or so. This isn't that easy of a site to find and it's a smaller community but with more passionate fans. So being told you need to concede to someone who has been here longer is ridiculous, IMO, and probably one of the reasons the community here is smaller. Why should people put up with that? They'll never have years on some of the older posters here and always fall behind in regard to their board "seniority" so it shouldn't matter in an instance like this.

However I don't agree with your point regarding Booker. I don't think playing PG has anything to do with injuries. He would handle the ball a lot no matter what you called the position he's playing. I know a lot of Suns fans here call TJ fragile but no one has come out and said the same about Booker but I'm starting to think it's time to worry about that some now. He needs to be able to play 70+ games a season, preferably closer to 80, if this is really his team and he's ready to lead. It's tough leading in a suit on the sidelines.

 

[1tinsoldier]

thank you, PH, for respectfully disagreeing. if there is a leader here, i believe most would say it is you by virtue of how reasonable you are, rather than how long you've been here.