2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch.

[pokerface]

Darko's hype was based on measurables and workouts, Doncic's is based on what he has actually done against real competition.

Saying don't draft Doncic because of Darko holds as much water as saying don't draft Ayton because of Derrick Williams.

Exactly that. Darkos workout really impressed Detroit.

 

[Western Font]

At this point I almost don't want Doncic because I don't want to hear about it if he's anything less than amazing. And I hope he's exactly good enough but not too-good enough for another team that I don't have to hear about missing on him.

Oh - and our pick better work out, too!

Seriously though - as a prospect I don't think he's going to be drafted "too high," though I'd be surprised if he goes #1 and maybe even #2. By contrast I thought Len was taken high, though it turned out to be a weak draft.

In a way I don't think Bender was taken too high because the player I wanted at that spot was Chriss, and we got him anyway. Would have been interesting to see if Bender had fallen to #8 had the Suns reversed the priorities. The three selections in between were guards as it played out at the time.

At the moment it looks like trading up in the 2016 draft is the risk that didn't pan out, but we'll see.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

heard the same thing about Darko... how great he looked against great competition.... comparing him to KG... hell, there were even some during the lead up to the draft even wondering if he could go above LeBron.

I believe an a great all more goes into scouting overseas now than did during the Darko days.

 

[SirStefan32]

Excellent point.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I believe an a great all more goes into scouting overseas now than did during the Darko days.

Ah yes. Way back in the Darko Ages.

...I'm not proud, but I can't stop.

 

[hsandhu]

Since we're talking darko, here's a sample of what people were saying at the time... and this is not an outlier.

[Media]

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[Cheesebeef]

Darko did not love basketball the way that Doncic does. His heart was never in basketball and that is a big part that he never panned out. Doncic eats, drinks and breathes basketball from everything I have heard. Darko also wasn't nearly as successful at such a young age as Doncic. On top of that European basketball has grown significantly over the past 15 years or so. The league that Doncic plays in right now is at a much higher level than anything Darko played in prior to the NBA.

From all reports Darko was a dog with a bone basketball wise. A complete animal.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I believe an a great all more goes into scouting overseas now than did during the Darko days.

Really shows with the Bender pick...

 

[hsandhu]

Really shows with the Bender pick...

I'm skeptical of doncic, but to be fair, bender was not getting massive hype going into the draft.

Most people were saying after Simmons and ingram, there was a big dropoff.

The two euros with far and away the most hype have been darko, off the chain hype, and rubio.

I would said donci c hype is ahead of rubio, close to darko

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Really shows with the Bender pick...

He’s played a season and a half with terrible coaching. I still have hope. He can already stroke the three and at least tries defensively and he’s not a stiff at 7 feet. Give him room to mature. He may never be a superstar but I still wouldn’t be shocked to see him blossom as a 14-7-4 guy off the bench that shoots 3s at a high clip and becomes a glue/X-factor type guy.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Really shows with the Bender pick...

Darko, Zarko, Fred Weis, Diop, Olowakandi, Tskitisvili, Thabeet, Korolov, Biedrins, Jiri Welsch (6-7 sharpshooting ball handing guard who could not handle the athleticism of the NBA).

Just go read this article from 2009 about Ricky Rubio.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-down-the-sterotype-of-european-nba-prospects

I loved this quote.

What is more impressive, Stephen Curry's performance in the 2008 NCAA Tournament or Ricky Rubio's performance agianst the Redeem Team in the Olympic Final with a injured wrist?

I would take Rubio over any other player in this years draft due to the fact he proved he could play against NBA players already.

While yes, some European players have been busts in the NBA, haven't players who have played in the NCAA turned into busts? Just because you played in the NCAA, which somehow is the second best basketball league in the world, you become better than any other prospect.

Did teams shy away from picking players straight out of high school in the lottery? These players played against far weaker competition and still managed to become lottery picks, without proving that they could perform against players at or above their skill lelvel.

Plus the level of international basketball has became more competitive with the U.S. completley missing the Final at the Olympics and losing in the 2006 FIBA World Championships against Greece.

So then what is the proof that Europeans are at a lower level than college players? Is it that there are more college players than Europeans? Is it the amount of publicity the college players receive through the NCAA? I think so, and is that a valid reason to pass on a poitentially elite player?

 

[JCSunsfan]

At this point I almost don't want Doncic because I don't want to hear about it if he's anything less than amazing. And I hope he's exactly good enough but not too-good enough for another team that I don't have to hear about missing on him.

Oh - and our pick better work out, too!

Seriously though - as a prospect I don't think he's going to be drafted "too high," though I'd be surprised if he goes #1 and maybe even #2. By contrast I thought Len was taken high, though it turned out to be a weak draft.

In a way I don't think Bender was taken too high because the player I wanted at that spot was Chriss, and we got him anyway. Would have been interesting to see if Bender had fallen to #8 had the Suns reversed the priorities. The three selections in between were guards as it played out at the time.

At the moment it looks like trading up in the 2016 draft is the risk that didn't pan out, but we'll see.

If the Suns draft Doncic, I will be very disappointed. It will take me a bit to recover. But in the end, I am a Suns fan and I will root for him to succeed and give him the benefit of the doubt in this development.

 

[hsandhu]

If the Suns draft Doncic, I will be very disappointed. It will take me a bit to recover. But in the end, I am a Suns fan and I will root for him to succeed and give him the benefit of the doubt in this development.

Well get ready, as I am, because high chance it happens.

Bordow wrote an article today saying suns take him at 2. Bordow tweeted me it was speculation, but they love him.

If true, we need to root for suns to fall to 3 and one of the donci c loving teams, i.e. Orlando, to get 2.

Hell, if he really is their pick at 2, I'd be happy to fall to 4. In a way it does take some of the nerves out of lottery night

And no, I'm not saying he can't be great. I just have more concerns that he isn't great or close to great than some others. If he is Gordon Hayward, i consider that a big dissapoinment, we need more than that.

If we are taking him #2, i freaking expect something at least in the neighborhood of james harden long term (which some of his hype men are saying), i.e. I would expect we look at him the same way we look at booker.

 

[hsandhu]

Here's doncic's biggest suns hype man, posted an article today: http://arizonasports.com/story/1393381/luka-doncic-phoenix-suns-nba-draft-2018/

He's taking him number 1! Fortunately I dont think suns are that high.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well get ready, as I am, because high chance it happens.

Bordow wrote an article today saying suns take him at 2. Bordow tweeted me it was speculation, but they love him.

If true, we need to root for suns to fall to 3 and one of the donci c loving teams, i.e. Orlando, to get 2.

Hell, if he really is their pick at 2, I'd be happy to fall to 4. In a way it does take some of the nerves out of lottery night

And no, I'm not saying he can't be great. I just have more concerns that he isn't great or close to great than some others. If he is Gordon Hayward, i consider that a big dissapoinment, we need more than that.

If we are taking him #2, i freaking expect something at least in the neighborhood of james harden long term (which some of his hype men are saying), i.e. I would expect we look at him the same way we look at booker.

Agreed. In as LOADED of a draft as I can remember, if you get the 2nd pick, you need to come away with a generational talent... not a solid all-star.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Agreed. In as LOADED of a draft as I can remember, if you get the 2nd pick, you need to come away with a generational talent... not a solid all-star.

And who might that be outside of Ayton? Are you seriously telling me that you think Bagley is a generational talent? If so than you throw that phrase around way too liberally.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And who might that be outside of Ayton? Are you seriously telling me that you think Bagley is a generational talent? If so than you throw that phrase around way too liberally.

Eh... not all that much to be honest.

 

[hsandhu]

And who might that be outside of Ayton? Are you seriously telling me that you think Bagley is a generational talent? If so than you throw that phrase around way too liberally.

I wouldnt use the phrase generational talent, but more a perennial all star level player.

Do i think bagley can be at the level of say karl anthony towns, yes I do.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I wouldnt use the phrase generational talent, but more a perennial all star level player.

Do i think bagley can be at the level of say karl anthony towns, yes I do.

I also bump against Doncic simply because we are set at wing in spades and despite numerous protests to the contrary, I’m not sure he can be a point guard.

And yes, I’m Euro-white-guy-shy. Earlier in the year, I went through the last decade’s worth of All-NBA teams and out of something like 240 possible slots on all three teams since 2010, I think there were only like 15 total white guys, euro or no euro.

White guys just don’t end up being the best players in the game and if we’re going to pick that high, I’m hoping for a guy who continually is one of the best 15 players in the league.

 

[hsandhu]

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In anticipation of suns taking him, I'm actually trying to watch some full games of doncic, not just cut up highlights. Things like 1:20:00, in above video would scare the hell out of me.

He looks good running the intial break, looks fast, then in the half court gets kevin seraphin on him, a washed out nba big, and he can't shake him? If that was devin booker he's getting to the hoop with ease.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I wouldnt use the phrase generational talent, but more a perennial all star level player.

Do i think bagley can be at the level of say karl anthony towns, yes I do.

I very strongly disagree with this. I do believe Bagley can be quite good, but Towns is one of the best bigs in all of basketball and may very well be the best within the next few years.

 

[hsandhu]

I very strongly disagree with this. I do believe Bagley can be quite good, but Towns is one of the best bigs in all of basketball and may very well be the best within the next few years.

Look at their college stats, bagley blows it out of the water. Towns was on a stacked team, people here argue bagley got stats because he was on a stacked team. And bagley was a full year younger.

When bagley reclassified, jeff goodman was on espn saying he would have been the #1 pick in the stacked 2017 draft.

It is revisionist to act like towns was considered a better prospect than bagley. Here's towns nbadraft.net bio:

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/karl-anthony-towns, not exactly a ringing endorsment

Towns is good, top 15/ top 10 maybe level for the rest of his career. but crazy to say he has a chance to be the best big when anthony davis is playing, and joel embiid is healthy. They are potential best players in the league in 5 years.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

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In anticipation of suns taking him, I'm actually trying to watch some full games of doncic, not just cut up highlights. Things like 1:20:00, in above video would scare the hell out of me.

He looks good running the intial break, looks fast, then in the half court gets kevin seraphin on him, a washed out nba big, and he can't shake him? If that was devin booker he's getting to the hoop with ease.

Just looked like he settled for the jumper there. Didn't really try too hard to get around him. That being said Seraphin is actually a very good athlete and is easily the biggest reasons he went 17th in the 2010 draft. He just didn't have the skills needed to actually be a good NBA player.

 

[hsandhu]

Just looked like he settled for the jumper there. Didn't really try too hard to get around him. That being said Seraphin is actually a very good athlete and is easily the biggest reasons he went 17th in the 2010 draft. He just didn't have the skills needed to actually be a good NBA player.

Please, he clearly could not shake him, if that is devin booker is he getting to the rim or not??

Every nba team has more capable bigs than kevin seraphin, let alone the wings that will be defending him.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Look at their college stats, bagley blows it out of the water. Towns was on a stacked team, people here argue bagley got stats because he was on a stacked team. And bagley was a full year younger.

When bagley reclassified, jeff goodman was on espn saying he would have been the #1 pick in the stacked 2017 draft.

It is revisionist to act like towns was considered a better prospect than bagley. Here's towns nbadraft.net bio:

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/karl-anthony-towns, not exactly a ringing endorsment

Towns is good, top 15/ top 10 maybe level for the rest of his career. but crazy to say he has a chance to be the best big when anthony davis is playing, and joel embiid is healthy. They are potential best players in the league in 5 years.

You can't simply look at stats with college players. In that case I guess we should just draft Young since he put up arguably the best stat line in college? Embiid and Towns played on stacked college teams and only played 21 minutes per game. They were also both very good defenders at the college level and Bagley struggled on defense this year. Bagley is simply not the prospect that those two guys were. I added Embiid because his stats were nearly identical in college to Towns. Oddly enough JJJ is putting up a nearly identical stats to those two as well.