2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch.

[Cheesebeef]

I think an argument could be made the Euro League is improving every year. Nothing to back it up but I think Euro basketball is only growing stronger as time passes.

I guess what I am trying to say is going back 15 years puts them at a disadvantage for comparison sake.

Totally disagree. The Euro league used to be much stronger because so few of them were actually leaving that league to come to the NBA.

 

[Mainstreet]

Totally disagree. The Euro league used to be much stronger because so few of them were actually leaving that league to come to the NBA.

So maybe you like the terminology European basketball better instead of Euro League?

I do think European basketball has gotten stronger. Maybe it's getting like the one and done rule in NBA. When the player is ready, he enters the NBA draft.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So maybe you like the terminology European basketball better instead of Euro League?

I do think European basketball has gotten stronger. Maybe it's getting like the one and done rule in NBA. When the player is ready, he enters the NBA draft.

Yeah, but that only strengthens my point, doesn’t it... because The one and done system continues to weaken college basketball.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, but that only strengthens my point, doesn’t it... because The one and done system continues to weaken college basketball.

But American basketball has not gotten weaker nor has European basketball. I guess if the measure is it being diluted in terms of players leaving for the NBA (Euro ball and college ball), it has. However, this was not really the point I was trying to make. I was looking at the weakness of doing a comparison study.

 

[rocker]

I don’t think bender has anything to do with him being a euro then. It’s the same as drafting a Michael porter. We only have his high school resume to work from.

And I’m unsure your assumption would come out correct. Yes the skita darko hezonja (so far) and benders (so far) exist. But so do the pau nowitzki, Bargnani (he’s not the star people expected but he’s far from a bust) as well. I think the Americans seem to bust less because there are so many stars, but in the scheme of things so many more of them are drafted. So I think in a percentage play I’d think they come out relatively close.

I totally agree. Nowadays even young players from overseas are coming into NBA and are very well adapted to the game in a short time. But it wasn’t always like that, the multi-annual process and case-based learning have led to this. For example, Drazen Petrovic was 60th pick in 1986 draft, he was 22 years old. He played for three more years in Europe until he came to Portland as a European player of the year in 1989. Straight on the bench, for two years. Fortunately, he was mentally strong enough to succeed later. I’m just saying, in 2018 a 25-years old Petrovic would be a starter in any NBA team, or better to say, the right team would find him.

 

[SirStefan32]

I totally agree. Nowadays even young players from overseas are coming into NBA and are very well adapted to the game in a short time. But it wasn’t always like that, the multi-annual process and case-based learning have led to this. For example, Drazen Petrovic was 60th pick in 1986 draft, he was 22 years old. He played for three more years in Europe until he came to Portland as a European player of the year in 1989. Straight on the bench, for two years. Fortunately, he was mentally strong enough to succeed later. I’m just saying, in 2018 a 25-years old Petrovic would be a starter in any NBA team, or better to say, the right team would find him.

And a lot of players went back once they had to sit on the bench. Djordjevic, Paspalj, and Danilovic come to mind, though Danilovic did play a little. Bodiroga straight up refused to come to the NBA.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But American basketball has not gotten weaker nor has European basketball. I guess if the measure is it being diluted in terms of players leaving for the NBA (Euro ball and college ball), it has. However, this was not really the point I was trying to make. I was looking at the weakness of doing a comparison study.

Totally disagree. College basketball has gotten A LOT weaker, especially in terms of judging elite talent coming into the NBA, IMO.

 

[overseascardfan]

Totally disagree. College basketball has gotten A LOT weaker, especially in terms of judging elite talent coming into the NBA, IMO.

So just curious (maybe you mentioned it in another post), you take Doncic over Ayton?

 

[JCSunsfan]

So just curious (maybe you mentioned it in another post), you take Doncic over Ayton?

Ah Cheese? No. I don't think so. Just a hunch (sarcasm).

 

[Cheesebeef]

So just curious (maybe you mentioned it in another post), you take Doncic over Ayton?

Not for a second. Even though I think the college game is weaker than it used to be, I still think it’s a better barometer of success than the Euroleague and I think Ayton’s ceiling is sky high with a relatively solid floor. Don’t believe the same with Doncic ceiling-wise.

And I don’t believe a team awash in Wings can take another while ignoring a potentially game-changing presence in the middle.

 

[Chaplin]

Not for a second. Even though I think the college game is weaker than it used to be, I still think it’s a better barometer of success than the Euroleague and I think Ayton’s ceiling is sky high with a relatively solid floor. Don’t believe the same with Doncic ceiling-wise.

And I don’t believe a team awash in Wings can take another while ignoring a potentially game-changing presence in the middle.

Let's say we are at #2, and Ayton is now gone. Who do you take? And let's say there is no market to trade down to #4 or #5 for Trae Young.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Let's say we are at #2, and Ayton is now gone. Who do you take? And let's say there is no market to trade down to #4 or #5 for Trae Young.

Depends on my mood... I think I still go big with Bags, but I wouldn’t flip the f out if it ended up being Doncic.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Let's say we are at #2, and Ayton is now gone. Who do you take? And let's say there is no market to trade down to #4 or #5 for Trae Young.

To me, that is a tough one. I like Bagley, Young, and maybe even Doncic about equally.

I even like Bamba and JJJr depending on how workouts and interviews go. Bamba will have a presence in this league, if his outside shooting is for real, it is a game changer. JJJr has difficulty staying on the floor with his foul problems, but he is an all-around player that fits Igor's system. But his shot-blocking often leaves him out of position as a rebounder. To me, JJJr has the biggest bust potential.

In the modern NBA, shooting out to the three is such and important part of the game. Of this group, my perception of the potential of each as shooters is the following.

1. Young
2. Jackson
3. Doncic
4-6 tie. Ayton, Bagley, Bamba

I am not including Porter because I just think we cannot afford the risk with the back.

Dark horse. Wendell Carter would be a fantastic get for Igor's system. He is big and can set picks, he is a good rebounder and defender and he can shoot well.

 

[Chaplin]

Porter is such a mystery to me. Wasn't he consensus #1 before his injury last season?

I wonder if Young is gone by #7, and we have the opportunity for #8 through trade, would Porter be someone worth trading up for?

 

[SirStefan32]

Porter is such a mystery to me. Wasn't he consensus #1 before his injury last season?

I wonder if Young is gone by #7, and we have the opportunity for #8 through trade, would Porter be someone worth trading up for?

Yep, I remember him being talked about as the number one pick. I guess people are terrified of that injury, especially with so many other options available. I think it would be worth trading up for him, assuming the medical staff gives their green light.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yep, I remember him being talked about as the number one pick. I guess people are terrified of that injury, especially with so many other options available. I think it would be worth trading up for him, assuming the medical staff gives their green light.

oh, if he fell that far and there was a play for to trade up to get him, it would be worth the risk, IMO. I think the injury is a little scary, but even more than that, he's SUCH an unknown commodity because he hasn't shown anything at the collegiate level. That combo platter would keep me from picking him top 4, but if he slid to 8th or something and we could get him along with Ayton/Young/Doncic/Bags, I'd be all for it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Porter is such a mystery to me. Wasn't he consensus #1 before his injury last season?

I wonder if Young is gone by #7, and we have the opportunity for #8 through trade, would Porter be someone worth trading up for?

He was probably the consensus #1 up until Bagley reclassified, from then on I think it was less clear.

 

[Covert Rain]

Is May 15th here yet?

 

[JCSunsfan]

There are three players that would I would love to trade up for, if it would be possible. Trae if he falls. Porter because of his skill set and physical profile. And Carter because his floor is so high. Carter is not going to a star but he is going to be a glue guy that gets his teams a lot of wins and makes everyone around him better.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There are three players that would I would love to trade up for, if it would be possible. Trae if he falls. Porter because of his skill set and physical profile. And Carter because his floor is so high. Carter is not going to a star but he is going to be a glue guy that gets his teams a lot of wins and makes everyone around him better.

I'd trade up for Trae or Carter, maybe even for Robert Williams. But I wouldn't do it for Porter. Taking him at 16 is risk enough IMO so paying a premium to get him before that makes little sense to me. And that's not even considering that we have no real college tape on him.

I know some have said, take him depending on medical staff, but I just don't know what that would do for us. Sure, if they say stay away, it's good info but otherwise, all they can say is "it was a successful micro-discectomy" and that is problematic. I don't want to risk much for him but I have no reason to believe that he didn't just have the perfect spinal surgery. It's what that injury/surgery will likely do down the road that concerns me and an "all clear" today doesn't remove that concern.

 

[Chaplin]

I'd trade up for Trae or Carter, maybe even for Robert Williams. But I wouldn't do it for Porter. Taking him at 16 is risk enough IMO so paying a premium to get him before that makes little sense to me. And that's not even considering that we have no real college tape on him.

I know some have said, take him depending on medical staff, but I just don't know what that would do for us. Sure, if they say stay away, it's good info but otherwise, all they can say is "it was a successful micro-discectomy" and that is problematic. I don't want to risk much for him but I have no reason to believe that he didn't just have the perfect spinal surgery. It's what that injury/surgery will likely do down the road that concerns me and an "all clear" today doesn't remove that concern.

Ok, then let's say the Suns say "No," to Porter. Which lottery team can afford to take the chance on him? He's still rated pretty highly, after all...

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ok, then let's say the Suns say "No," to Porter. Which lottery team can afford to take the chance on him? He's still rated pretty highly, after all...

I think it would be difficult to justify taking him in the top 10 so maybe Philly and below. Someone like Boston could afford to risk it but they don't have a lottery pick this season. I just think we are at the absolute bottom of the list of teams that could or at least should take that gamble.

 

[Chaplin]

I know we're not talking much about pick 16, but I'm starting to see Jalen Brunson creep onto a couple mocks at our #16 pick.

 

[Chaplin]

I think it would be difficult to justify taking him in the top 10 so maybe Philly and below. Someone like Boston could afford to risk it but they don't have a lottery pick this season. I just think we are at the absolute bottom of the list of teams that could or at least should take that gamble.

Even if none of the top point guards are available (including Sexton and Shai) and we drafted Ayton (or one of the other top prospects) with our first pick?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Even if none of the top point guards are available (including Sexton and Shai) and we drafted Ayton (or one of the other top prospects) with our first pick?

If we went for Doncic or Young with our first pick, I'd consider trading up for Carter or Robert Williams. If we picked Ayton and the top 3 or 4 PGs are off the board, I'd take the best player that fell to us. Someone such as Brunson, Zhaire Smith, Jontay Porter or Mitchell Robinson should be around when we pick at 16. Even a trade out interests me more than gambling on a known injury problem.