2005-06 ASU Hoops

AZBALLER

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I remember another guy without athletic ability but was smart and could shoot lights out at ua, what was that guy's name who helped Jordan get a handfull of rings? Kerr?

I dissagree on the talent standpoint...but how can I debate that with the results the way they are?

Bottom line is that I dissagree about ASU not having the talent, but I've got no proof to back up my opinion...


Furthermore, I'd bet on ASU this Wensday.
 

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AZBALLER said:
I remember another guy without athletic ability but was smart and could shoot lights out at ua, what was that guy's name who helped Jordan get a handfull of rings? Kerr?.
Are you seriously comparing Kevin Kruger to Steve Kerr? Kerr spent fifteen years in the NBA where Kruger has about zero chance of ending up. And while Kruger's a pretty good shooter, Steve Kerr shot 57% from three point range as a senior. Big, big diference and quite a stretch as a comparison.

Furthermore, I'd bet on ASU this Wensday.
I'd bet ASU covering the spread because the Devils generally have played well at McKale North and historically has done the same against Arizona. But anyone who honestly thinks ASU is the better team and will win this game is looking at it through maroon and gold glasses. Not only is ASU really bad, but I think I remember Pendergraph (ASU's best frontcourt player) left the game with what looked like a pretty serious injury on Saturday. The oddsmakers will probably make this a double digit spread and you think betting ASU to win is a good bet?
 
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AZBALLER

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
Are you seriously comparing Kevin Kruger to Steve Kerr? Kerr spent fifteen years in the NBA where Kruger has about zero chance of ending up. And while Kruger's a pretty good shooter, Steve Kerr shot 57% from three point range as a senior. Big, big diference and quite a stretch as a comparison.


I'd bet ASU covering the spread because the Devils generally have played well at McKale North and historically has done the same against Arizona. But anyone who honestly thinks ASU is the better team and will win this game is looking at it through maroon and gold glasses. Not only is ASU really bad, but I think I remember Pendergraph (ASU's best frontcourt player) left the game with what looked like a pretty serious injury on Saturday. The oddsmakers will probably make this a double digit spread and you think betting ASU to win is a good bet?

You're comparing Kerr's senior #'s to Kruger's junior numbers, and I'll take an NBA's coaches son any day of the week...

If you think ua will be a double digit favorite, then you've probably never made a bet in your life...
 
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AZBALLER

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BTW, I'm not dissing Kerr, he is a part owner of my favorite NBA team...If you think my comparison is off, then maybe you've never seen Kerr or Kruger play???
 

Lefty

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I think tomorrow's game will be tight and right now it's a tossup. It could go either way. If Jawann and Rodgers were playing I would say the UofA but now without them, it's too close to call.

As for Kerr vs Krueger, Kerr was not just a great outside shooter, he rarely turned the ball over. He had an unbelievable assist to turnover ratio. Also, Kerr made third-team All-American in 1988. To compare these two is ridiculous.
 

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AZBALLER said:
You're comparing Kerr's senior #'s to Kruger's junior numbers, and I'll take an NBA's coaches son any day of the week......

There was no three point line in college basketball during Kerr's first three years at Arizona so I can't compare their respective junior years but Kerr shot 54% from the field that year while Kruger is shooting around 40%. And I know this is a guess (but a rather logical one) that if Kerr shot 57% from long range as a senior I'm guessing his junior year was still better than Kruger's 39% had there been a thre point line. Seriously, you'd rather have Kevin Jruger over Steve Kerr? This is the most laughable, misinformed opinion I have ever heard. 99% of ASU fans would say your opinion is way off-base.

If you think ua will be a double digit favorite, then you've probably never made a bet in your life...
The Sagarin predictor puts Arizona at -13 but factor in home court and that goes to -10. That's what I was going off.
 

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AZBALLER said:
BTW, I'm not dissing Kerr, he is a part owner of my favorite NBA team...If you think my comparison is off, then maybe you've never seen Kerr or Kruger play???
Actually, I think you're the one who's never seen Kruger or Kerr play because your comparison is that far off.
 

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
Actually, I think you're the one who's never seen Kruger or Kerr play because your comparison is that far off.

:biglaugh:

Unbelievable......Kevin Kruger (The coaches son) is comparable to Steve Kerr in only two ways: They are both stand still shooters (but Kruger is no where near as good as Kerr at that, and he wont be next year either) and they are white.

According to you Gerry McNamara, Bryce Drew, Richard Midgely, and Blake Stepp are all reincarnations of Steve Kerr. In fact they are no where close. And kruger does not even belong on the same planet as those guys, as most of their NBA careers are either 1-2 years or non exisistent.

The closest thing i have seen to Kerr this year is Ravio out of Gonzaga. People forget that Kerr was alot more athletic than those guys in college and became a stand still shooter mostly when he came into the NBA.

Why don't you just compare Mario Bennett to Amare Stoudamire or Micheal Batiste to Richard Jefferson?
 

AZBALLER

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Arizona's Finest said:
:biglaugh:

According to you Gerry McNamara, Bryce Drew, Richard Midgely, and Blake Stepp are all reincarnations of Steve Kerr.

No, that is actually your opinion of my opinion(which is ridiculous, as I think highly of Kerr)...Don't put words into my mouth...if I thought that then I'd say it...I have great respect for Kerr, but apparently you don't have any respect for Kruger...
 

AZBALLER

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BTW finest, I don't care about the color of their skin...I just think that both are heady players with great accuracy and range on their shots...In fact I'd say that Kruger is a slitely better playmaker, while Kerr is a slightly better shooter...

BTW, what year did the NCAA start using a 3-point line???

Kerr isn't that old, is he???
 

AZBALLER

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Arizona's Finest said:
:biglaugh:
Why don't you just compare Mario Bennett to Amare Stoudamire or Micheal Batiste to Richard Jefferson?

Mario played the 5 in college and blew out his knee twice...Otherwise maybe I would be comparing the 2...Maybe not? Who Knows? I like to be realistic...

Batiste played the 4/5 in college, so what is the comparison to Jefferson? Jefferson played the 2/3 in college...

BTW Jefferson never should have gotten a diploma from Moon Valley High...Any dissagreament with that comment???
 
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AZBALLER

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
Seriously, you'd rather have Kevin Jruger over Steve Kerr? This is the most laughable, misinformed opinion I have ever heard. 99% of ASU fans would say your opinion is way off-base.

Seriously, do they teach ua students how to read???

Try and quote me where I'd make such a stupid statement...

Am I allowed to compare players' games?

Are there some unwritten rules, that nobody told me about? I've been around for a while, and nobody told me that I couldn't compare players...
 

AZBALLER

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
The oddsmakers will probably make this a double digit spread and you think betting ASU to win is a good bet?

ASU is +7.5...Like I said, you've probably never made a real bet in your life...I wouldn't bet ASU as a winner, but I would certainly bet on them...Maybe I'm right and maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't make fun of your opinion with made up lies...

To help you understand, if you bet on a team, it doesn't mean you're betting on them to win; Actually, USUALLY you're betting on them to beat the line...
 
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Lefty

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I never bet on any game the Cats are playing but 7.5 points seems to be too much. If the game was at McKale it would be different but ASU has played a lot of close games at home.
 

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AZBALLER said:
Seriously, do they teach ua students how to read???

Try and quote me where I'd make such a stupid statement...
Umm...
AZBALLER said:
You're comparing Kerr's senior #'s to Kruger's junior numbers, and I'll take an NBA's coaches son any day of the week...

And as far as the spread goes, I told you how I came up with my -10 conclusion. Sorry, but the Sagarin predictor is a widely used statistical tool in the college game used to evaluate teams. I didn't realize I was dealing with a professional gambler.:rolleyes:

AZBALLER said:
Are there some unwritten rules, that nobody told me about? I've been around for a while, and nobody told me that I couldn't compare players...
Feel free to make as many comparisons as you want, but when you compare a guy who was an All American in college and who spent fifteen years in the NBA being an integral part of championship teams to someone who likely won't even make the D-League expect to be called out on such an stupid comparison.
 

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AZBALLER said:
No, that is actually your opinion of my opinion(which is ridiculous, as I think highly of Kerr)...Don't put words into my mouth...if I thought that then I'd say it...I have great respect for Kerr, but apparently you don't have any respect for Kruger...

The problem is EVERY SINGLE ONE of the players i named is better than Kevin Kruger. and EVERY SINGLE ONE of those players is a full level below Steve Kerr. So right now you are comparing apples and oranges. They have slightly similar games, but one plays his at a MUCH higher level. and he did in college too.
 

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AZBALLER said:
Mario played the 5 in college and blew out his knee twice...Otherwise maybe I would be comparing the 2...Maybe not? Who Knows? I like to be realistic...

Batiste played the 4/5 in college, so what is the comparison to Jefferson? Jefferson played the 2/3 in college...

BTW Jefferson never should have gotten a diploma from Moon Valley High...Any dissagreament with that comment???

This is a pretty bad post bro, but i'll indulge you....

" I like to be realistic..."

well then come back from Mars and join the rest of us here on the message board. Bennett is and was a underachieving, significantly less athletic, unmotivated, worse shooting, ball handling, less intelligent version of Amare Stoudamire. Other than that, they are virtual clones. :rolleyes: And the knee problems wouldnt have helped your case either.

I was trying to think of a athletic, defensive stopper, making max money in the NBA that has played for ASU and Batiste was the closest thing i could come up with. "closest" being a relative term in this case

As for Jefferson at Moon Valley? I have no idea how to respond to that. I have talked to him in person and heard him on interviews and comes across as insightful and intelligent. Maybe he didnt do to well on the AIMS test or something, but that and high school GPA are not indicators of intelligence.

All i need to see from Jefferson was when i attended MVHS-Prescott Valley (i had a friend who attended) and i saw him dunk over THE ENTIRE TEAM during a game. If he was going to marry my yet to be born daughter i might do a little more digging into his Moon Valley transcripts, but as a UA fan and basketball fan.....i could really care less
 
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Arizona's Finest

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AZBALLER said:
BTW finest, I don't care about the color of their skin...I just think that both are heady players with great accuracy and range on their shots...In fact I'd say that Kruger is a slitely better playmaker, while Kerr is a slightly better shooter...

BTW, what year did the NCAA start using a 3-point line???

Kerr isn't that old, is he???

Yeah kevin and a player somewhere between 12-6 in the rotation ON EVERY COLLEGE BASKETBALL TEAM IN AMERICA................

Thats my point...99.99% of those players wont have half the career of Steve Kerr and its complete homerism to think otherwise with Kevin Kruger. You can compare there games a little, but after that there is nothing to go by. Remember Kerr broke a record for three point accuracy. I got ten bucks that says Kruger doesn't come within 8 points of that % next year.......
 

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This article speaks for itself...........I had kinda thought ASU was a sleeping giant (as is popular thought) but the points Bordow makes really make sense.....


No easy fix
By Scott Bordow, Tribune ColumnistJanuary 25, 2006

Arizona State basketball coach Rob Evans won’t talk about his job status. “I don’t go there,” Evans said Monday. “I don’t live in speculation.” Others do, however, and the most popular parlor game at ASU these days is guessing who will replace Evans after this season — assuming he is fired.

Will it be former Cincinnati coach Bob Huggins? Texas Tech coach Bobby Knight? How about Wichita State’s Mark Turgeon, ex-Stanford coach Mike Montgomery, or former ASU guard Lionel Hollins?

Pick a name, any name, and he’s been mentioned on some radio talk show or message board.

It’s unseemly to be talking about the new coach when the old coach is in the middle of the season — Evans deserves better than that — but such is the nature of big-time college sports.

You go to one NCAA tournament in seven years, you’re 1-7 in Pac-10 play in your eighth year, and the vultures aren’t going to wait for your carcass to rot.
What’s missing amid all the chatter, however, is some perspective.

The ASU basketball program is not the sleeping giant some make it out to be. In fact, it may be, outside of Washington State, the most difficult place to win in the Pac-10.

Now, that doesn’t mean the program is irreparably damaged. Who thought Arizona would be a basketball power before Lute Olson arrived in Tucson?

But ASU has hired two coaches with impressive resumes — Evans led a dormant Mississippi program to two consecutive NCAA appearances, and Bill Frieder coached Michigan to four NCAA tournament berths — and neither was able to duplicate his success at ASU.

“Over the years everybody has looked at Arizona State and said, ‘Oh, that’s a great job,’ ” said Montgomery, Stanford’s coach from 1986 to 2004. “That’s just people looking at it as a place to live and all the surrounding stuff. The truth of the matter is all the surrounding stuff is as big a problem as it is a plus.”

The biggest hurdle at ASU is the lack of a recruiting base with which to draw from. In the 27-year history of the Pac-10, only eight Arizona high school players have made the all-conference team. The state of Washington has had 16 players, Oregon 14.

Only four local prep athletes — Brad Lohaus, Sean Elliott, Mike Bibby and Richard Jefferson — have been McDonald’s All-Americans.

A look at the current Pac-10 rosters is telling: Only Washington State (2) and Arizona (0) have fewer instate recruits on their roster than ASU (3).

Washington, on the other hand, has seven local players, UCLA 13 and USC nine.

It’s far easier to win when your backyard is a gold mine.

Has Evans missed on some talented local players? Absolutely. Page’s Matt Haryasz went to Stanford, St. Mary’s guard Jason Fontenet is at Oregon State, and 6-foot-10 Brophy center Nick Lewis is averaging 17.1 points and 5.1 rebounds per game for the University of San Diego.

That said, ASU isn’t going to win with local talent. The shelves aren’t stocked, and the best players — like Elliott, Jefferson, and Bibby — are swallowed up by Arizona.

“There are not as many Pac-10 players in the area that I perceived there to be,” Evans said.

And once ASU has to go outside the state to recruit, what is it selling?

It has no tradition, little recent success, an empty arena and a community that cares more about its professional sports teams than college basketball.

“You’ll hear people say, ‘I want to go to Duke, I want to go to Arizona,’ ” Evans said. “You’ve got to convince people to come to Arizona State.”

It can be done — Ike Diogu is proof — but the notion that pretty coeds, first-class facilities and sunny skies are enough to point kids to ASU is logic that is about as deep as a kiddie pool.

The tough sell is why Purdue’s Gene Keady and Connecticut’s Jim Calhoun rebuffed overtures by ASU before Frieder was hired in 1989.

“Before I took the job, some coaches I know tried to discourage me,” Evans said. “It’s not easy, but I do feel like it’s a doable job.”

When he first arrived in Tempe, Evans talked about filling Wells Fargo Arena just as he did Tad Smith Coliseum at Mississippi.

He knows better now. ASU is all cowboy hat and no cattle.

“I imagine over time it’s, ‘How come they can’t be like Arizona?’ ” Montgomery said. “Well, Arizona is Arizona. Everybody has their own niche.”

ASU has had three NCAA tournament appearances since 1981. It’s never averaged more than 9,514 fans per game in a season.

Maybe a new coach will blow his whistle and change the culture.

But here’s a disturbing thought:

What if this is ASU’s niche?
 

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That's crap.

Evans is now offering excuses as to why he can't put a winner on the floor?

Any crap comment is that there are not enough Pac-10 players in the city schools. There are plenty of players playing for different schools around the country who could have contributed mightily to this program.

You know how UofA got it's program going? It offered one helluva summer ball camp to high school teams around the country. Any team could go. UofA took that opportunity to show each and every player and coach how they do things to help benefit the player (weight training being very important).

Lute knew what the hell he was doing. He marketed that program to every kid in the country.

What the hell has ASU done? You're telling me something like this couldn't be accomplished when UofA's camp was over?

Bottom line is that the blame lies on the coaching staff and administration. To blame it on the local talent base is a cop-out.
 

Lefty

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Always a nice win against the Devils. It's amazing that the Cats have won 21 of the last 22 games between the schools. I guess you can call that domination. Also, Lute is now 40-7 against ASU.

I'm sure ASU fans are counting the games left until Evans gets fired. I read today that Mike Montgomery would be a top replacement if he gets canned by the Warriors. That would not be a bad pickup.
 

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Zona90 said:
I'm sure ASU fans are counting the games left until Evans gets fired. I read today that Mike Montgomery would be a top replacement if he gets canned by the Warriors. That would not be a bad pickup.
I'm guessing some of the smart people around Stanford rubbed off on Monty duroing his tenure there. Why would he go to ASU when there's a better job opening up in Eugene? And why wouldn't Stanford just bring him back considering Trent Johnson looks like he's completely overmatched at the Pac-10 level?

If he did come to Tempe though it would be an absolute coup and cost a lot of cash both in coaches' salaries and other program upgrades.
 
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