15 thoughts - free agency

Harry

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2. If I’m right this draft is so good even Keim can’t blow it. He’s certain for another year.
4. I’m still hearing Johnson to Tampa with a re-structured contract.
5. If $5 mil a year doesn’t get Drake I’d pass. The Johnson trade is not contingent on re-signing Drake
8. Would have preferred tagging him.
9. I’m heRing Dupree & Jones are definite tags if not re-signed.
14. I’m good with extending PP since they didn’t trade him.
 

slanidrac16

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2. If I’m right this draft is so good even Keim can’t blow it. He’s certain for another year.
4. I’m still hearing Johnson to Tampa with a re-structured contract.
5. If $5 mil a year doesn’t get Drake I’d pass. The Johnson trade is not contingent on re-signing Drake
8. Would have preferred tagging him.
9. I’m heRing Dupree & Jones are definite tags if not re-signed.
14. I’m good with extending PP since they didn’t trade him.
So DJ to Tampa is not just wishful thinking by Cardinal fans?
 

juza76

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128 targets. His catch rate was 171st in the league, at 56.3%.

That screams to me that it was mainly the volume of targets instead of him being really good, on account of no one else being around to throw to.

I don't know what to say
Even Fitz averaged like 60% as catch rate in his career
And he got many screen passes recently
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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Well, not to be disrespectful, but I am going to take a former NFL personnel guy’s words over a fans’. I highly doubt Brandt “forgot” to tell us something. I am more inclined to think that he wrote it as it truly is, and thus what is relevant to you and me.



You are right, but I have never said anything about spending over the cap limit? In fact, I was careful to point out that you cannot ignore the salary cap. It is just so easy to manipulate it that every NFL personnel guy can do it in their sleep.
I agree with your opinion on "hard cap -vs- soft cap". Hard cap imo a team can't manipulate, as to a soft cap they can. The explanation you gave about the Aaron Rodgers contract lays out all the evidence. Spread the money out, signing bonus, guarantees etc, throughout the life of the contract & stay under the cap for that particular yr. I think Jerry Jones was one of the first owners to take advantage of the soft cap.
 
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Gandhi

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And yet here we've been the last two years unable to field a competitive team. Makes you wonder why people want Keim fired, huh?

I am sure you know just as well as I do that this have nothing at all to do with what we were talking about.
 
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Gandhi

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4. I’m still hearing Johnson to Tampa with a re-structured contract.

Harry, the premise for this post was not to guess on what might or might no happen, but rather what we know for a fact right now. However, I would be happy to get anything for Johnson. I doubt he will ever be a success in this offense.

9. I’m heRing Dupree & Jones are definite tags if not re-signed.

I am hearing the same thing, but again, we have no way of knowing.
 

AZCrazy

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Franchise tag for RB in 2020 is $12.5 million.
 

Solar7

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I don't know what to say
Even Fitz averaged like 60% as catch rate in his career
And he got many screen passes recently
Fitz had a couple of down years in that - but again, it's the volume of targets. In 2010 and 2011, his worst years in catch %, he was top-five in targets in the NFL. We got the ball to him based entirely on volume, which is what I'm saying about DeVante Parker. There's no one else to throw to, so it went to him.

Devante Parker received 21% of all passing targets for the Dolphins, who were characteristically behind. The next closest player, Gesicki, was 14%. Compare that to the Cards, who had both Larry and Kirk with 20%. They both had catch %'s over 60%, too.

Parker is like Terrelle Pryor for the Browns in 2016. No one else to throw to, so they get an overwhelming amount of targets, all from behind.

The whole point is that Parker didn't become some kind of elite WR suddenly because he was underused or incorrectly utilized.
 
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Gandhi

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Franchise tag for RB in 2020 is $12.5 million.

Yes, and that is not a problem. However, in general the issue with the franchise tag is that you take the entire cap hit now, so unlike with every other contract, it is not possible to manipulate the salary cap effect.
 

Brak

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If Drake looked like just an average back, I would be fully on board with replacing him - but he didn't, he was fantastic.

Spending 5 mil of cap room on a guy you know works is well worth it, as opposed to drafting a total unknown, when the most likely outcome is they will be subpar, is stupid.

At least SOMEBODY is on the same page with me. Still can't believe all the pushback on Drake.

The salary cap is rumored to be $200m for the coming season. Assuming that's true, is 2.5% of the cap too much to spend on a key player, who's already proven himself in the system, and is such a huge part of the offense? Shouldn't be a complicated question.
 

Solar7

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At least SOMEBODY is on the same page with me. Still can't believe all the pushback on Drake.

The salary cap is rumored to be $200m for the coming season. Assuming that's true, is 2.5% of the cap too much to spend on a key player, who's already proven himself in the system, and is such a huge part of the offense? Shouldn't be a complicated question.
I won't harp on the point too much, but he just wasn't as good as people keep claiming. 3 good games. We're looking at overpaying a guy and giving him a multi-year deal when the overwhelming evidence of his career is that he's not a primary back. In the short term, it means we're paying through the nose at the RB position where we would have three guys being paid a total of $20M+ that have played 11 seasons between them and have one 1,000 yard rushing season. In the long term, depending on how long and big the deal is, if the guy doesn't pan out, you're stuck asking yourself this same question next season.
 

Garthshort

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Solar7, you lost me when you described the three games as just good games. When you realize that four TD's in a game by a RB is a GREAT game, I'll give your posts some creds.
 

slanidrac16

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I won't harp on the point too much, but he just wasn't as good as people keep claiming. 3 good games. We're looking at overpaying a guy and giving him a multi-year deal when the overwhelming evidence of his career is that he's not a primary back. In the short term, it means we're paying through the nose at the RB position where we would have three guys being paid a total of $20M+ that have played 11 seasons between them and have one 1,000 yard rushing season. In the long term, depending on how long and big the deal is, if the guy doesn't pan out, you're stuck asking yourself this same question next season.
We need 3 good running backs to make it through an NFL season.

If DJ was a f/a signing Drake wouldn’t be a problem. Signing Drake isn’t the problem, DJ’s contract is.

with the whispers of DJ being dealt it looks like we will still be on the hook for 10m, EVEN IF HE IS GONE saving us around 6 m which could make signing Drake a wash. We would still have to draft a RB.

Drake had one run against the 49ers that reminded me of how a running back should run. It was a td run to the right side. He met contact at about the 4 yard line. He not only took on the contact but ran over the defender and dove into the end zone. If that was DJ I guarantee he would have tried to juke, eventually put his head down and came up short.

I think Drake was third in the league with yards after contact. That means something. It means making the first down to keep a drive going. A td instead of a fg. It means turning a 1 yard loss into a 3 yard gain.

I can not justify ( as a fan) letting Drake walk base on the idea we can’t keep him because we’re paying DJ to much. In no way am I saying we should pay him 8-10 mil per year. But a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. There is no way you can guarantee production from the rb position simply by just “ get a guy in the 5th round”. It’s not just running the ball . It’s blocking, receiving and picking up the offense. On top of that you don’t know if ‘ your guy’ is going to be there when we’re at the podium.

And finally if DJ is dealt and Drake walks we are left with Edmonds. I like him too but now we’ll need two running backs. I like what Drake brings. He’s an Experience, hard nose, low milage, yards after contact guy.
 

Solar7

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We need 3 good running backs to make it through an NFL season.

If DJ was a f/a signing Drake wouldn’t be a problem. Signing Drake isn’t the problem, DJ’s contract is.

with the whispers of DJ being dealt it looks like we will still be on the hook for 10m, EVEN IF HE IS GONE saving us around 6 m which could make signing Drake a wash. We would still have to draft a RB.

Drake had one run against the 49ers that reminded me of how a running back should run. It was a td run to the right side. He met contact at about the 4 yard line. He not only took on the contact but ran over the defender and dove into the end zone. If that was DJ I guarantee he would have tried to juke, eventually put his head down and came up short.

I think Drake was third in the league with yards after contact. That means something. It means making the first down to keep a drive going. A td instead of a fg. It means turning a 1 yard loss into a 3 yard gain.

I can not justify ( as a fan) letting Drake walk base on the idea we can’t keep him because we’re paying DJ to much. In no way am I saying we should pay him 8-10 mil per year. But a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. There is no way you can guarantee production from the rb position simply by just “ get a guy in the 5th round”. It’s not just running the ball . It’s blocking, receiving and picking up the offense. On top of that you don’t know if ‘ your guy’ is going to be there when we’re at the podium.

And finally if DJ is dealt and Drake walks we are left with Edmonds. I like him too but now we’ll need two running backs. I like what Drake brings. He’s an Experience, hard nose, low milage, yards after contact guy.
Listen, if we trade DJ, a concept I'm taking with a huge grain of salt, and in most structures proposed seems like a poor idea (giving up a draft pick to save $6M in cap space or whatever seems bonkers), sure. I guess.

Drake's yards after contact have been great in the NFL. His yards per attempt are solid. So why does he just vanish? Why are guys like Mark Walton and Karen Ballage taking snaps over him? That's not an Adam Gase problem, either.

He comes in, has one unexpectedly strong game against SF where they're completely ignoring he exists, and then disappears for four games straight. I'm talking bad enough to get cut from your fantasy football bench in 12 team leagues disappears.

Then in Seattle, the difference between him having a decent-ish game and the strong game he had is one 80-yard TD that he goes untouched on. Any NFL back with decent speed should take that to the house. 3.73 YPC in that game without the big run.

So I sit here and I look at what is more likely to happen - that Drake is going to be the guy we got for four games, which looks very similar to the rest of his career, or the kinda-flukey three-four games we got guy? I know fans want to bet high, but we have a large sample size.

For the record, I've never said to replace him with a 5th round pick. Of course that's not that easy to do. But in the third round, maybe 4th round, we can draft a guy who can come in and compete with Edmonds, DJ, and maybe even a cheap guy like DeAndre Washington, who has played with Kliff.

If we sign Drake for some astronomically low number or can wash our hands of him in 2021 with no worries, I can only complain so much. But if this guy is making $7M per year, and comes out and puts up 700 yards all season, I'm going to be miserable.

This fanbase is expecting lightning to strike or for guys to be guys they have never shown to be way too much.
 

slanidrac16

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Listen, if we trade DJ, a concept I'm taking with a huge grain of salt, and in most structures proposed seems like a poor idea (giving up a draft pick to save $6M in cap space or whatever seems bonkers), sure. I guess.

Drake's yards after contact have been great in the NFL. His yards per attempt are solid. So why does he just vanish? Why are guys like Mark Walton and Karen Ballage taking snaps over him? That's not an Adam Gase problem, either.

He comes in, has one unexpectedly strong game against SF where they're completely ignoring he exists, and then disappears for four games straight. I'm talking bad enough to get cut from your fantasy football bench in 12 team leagues disappears.

Then in Seattle, the difference between him having a decent-ish game and the strong game he had is one 80-yard TD that he goes untouched on. Any NFL back with decent speed should take that to the house. 3.73 YPC in that game without the big run.

So I sit here and I look at what is more likely to happen - that Drake is going to be the guy we got for four games, which looks very similar to the rest of his career, or the kinda-flukey three-four games we got guy? I know fans want to bet high, but we have a large sample size.

For the record, I've never said to replace him with a 5th round pick. Of course that's not that easy to do. But in the third round, maybe 4th round, we can draft a guy who can come in and compete with Edmonds, DJ, and maybe even a cheap guy like DeAndre Washington, who has played with Kliff.

If we sign Drake for some astronomically low number or can wash our hands of him in 2021 with no worries, I can only complain so much. But if this guy is making $7M per year, and comes out and puts up 700 yards all season, I'm going to be miserable.

This fanbase is expecting lightning to strike or for guys to be guys they have never shown to be way too much.
I’m already have come to grips with Drake walking. I just want us to act and not settle on some washed up rb or some ufa.

Oh btw, Washington averaged 3.8, 3.6 and 2.7 over the last 3 years. That really sets my soul on fire.
 

DVontel

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He’s had two different coaches. Every time we have this conversation, you ignore his lack of production in the first 8 games of this year.
Probably because Flores/O’Shea held him back as well. Why is it that also Bama alumni played like a DPOY candidate once he got traded from there?
 

Zeno

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He’s had two different coaches. Every time we have this conversation, you ignore his lack of production in the first 8 games of this year.

Could it possibly be because he is a better fit in the offense we run as opposed to what was run in Miami? Bad coaching aside, and I think Gase is a bad coach, scheme fit is also a huge factor in player performance.
 

Solar7

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Probably because Flores/O’Shea held him back as well. Why is it that also Bama alumni played like a DPOY candidate once he got traded from there?
Could it possibly be because he is a better fit in the offense we run as opposed to what was run in Miami? Bad coaching aside, and I think Gase is a bad coach, scheme fit is also a huge factor in player performance.
Well, we'll see guys. Not really much else can be said about it. I don't think he's a very good player, and I'm way more worried about those four games in the range of 30 yards than I am the four games of decent play.

We'll know if he's a Cardinal this week, I'd assume. I doubt he's going to be on the market long.
 

kerouac9

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Solar, where would you place Drake among his NFL colleagues? I think he’s a very good player in that he’s among the 12 best starting RBs in the league. I don’t think he’s a very good player is that means he’s a top 5 RB in the league.

He’s shown enough to me to be find spending $5 million a season with $12 million guaranteed. Anything more than that and you’re looking for trouble.

But it’s hard for me to think of an RB who would be worth much more than that — maybe if McCaffrey can do it another year and Barkley can do it 2 more...
 

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