15 thoughts - free agency

Gandhi

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Posts
1,787
Reaction score
2,292
Location
Denmark
1 – I am a fan. I have the privilege that I don’t have to think for one second about the draft for the first week or so of free agency, so in this post I can just try to fill the holes with veterans only. But of course, I have no idea who will get tagged – and I am not going to guess, simply because it would be nothing but exactly a guess - but I thought it would be a good idea to send out this post in relatively good time before the market opens up.

2 – It has been hard not to notice how many on this board is calling for Keim’s departure, and I can pretty much guarantee that phenomenon will not decrease as we get deeper into the offseason. So, I really, really, really would like someone to explain to me why they want to set the team back to zero again? We all know that Kingsbury and Kyler Murray separately were - and are – big and unconventional chances, and that they are certainly not for every personnel guy, and together? Well, talk about a gamble. Keim made that gamble. If they bring in a new general manager, who is to say that he want to make that gamble as well? And if they make sure they hire a general manager, who do want to go with those two, do you really want a potential yes-man as general manager?

So, I ask again: why do people keep wanting to set the team back to where they were before last season – only without a general manager as well.

3 – Please forget everything about salary cap. It does not matter how much available cap space the Cardinals have, or how much of it a new player will chew up. It has been this way for many years, but now it will be confirmed in the new collective bargaining agreement. I think I need to explain it again, but I must warn you that it can be a bit boring:

Before the current CBA was put into place in 2011, the teams worked with a so-called “hard cap.” That meant that the salary cap was relatively stable, as it did not increase much every year. At that time it was highly important to structure contracts correctly, and all the time have strategic plans for right now as well as several years down the road.

From 2011 and until now, the teams has worked with a “soft cap”, which has every year increased significantly, to the point where almost every team has way more cap room than they can use.

The cold numbers is that the salary cap will rise for the 7th straight years – with a rise of about 5-6% from last year, though strong rumors also says that the salary cap will be all the way up to about 200 million this year. The salary cap has increased roughly 65% in the last five years. Or we can take the maybe easier manageable numbers that the salary cap has risen from 120.6 million in 2012 to 188.2 million last year. And here is an interesting nugget: rumor has it there will be a massive rise to about 240 million next year.

Here is another interesting nugget: let us say the salary cap for this year will be 200 million. Many don’t know that there is a salary floor, just as there is a salary cap, and it require team’s to spend at least 89% of their salary cap each year. For the Cardinals that means that they need to spend 178 million, and right now they are spending about 158.5 million of their available salary cap. In other words, if they are not to be financially penalized, before next year they have to spend 20 million more of their collective cap room.

This increase are why we are seeing huge deals to mediocre players. There are simply “too much” cap room.

Since the “soft cap” will continue into the new CBA, the salary cap will continue to rise, and that means that player contracts can be constructed in all kinds of ways so that cap room will never be an issue. Just a small example is that there is no danger in pushing money on to the next years.

The salary cap cannot be ignored, but there is no incentive at all to spend any worry on it. It simply does not matter.

One slightly relevant rule, though, and this is only if they don’t agree on a new CBA before free agency opens up, there are special rules in the last year of the current CBA, and one rule is that a player contract cannot rise with more than 30% in each of the three first years. That means, for example, that if a player gets a contract with a 2020 salary of 10 million, then his salary can maximum be 13 million the next year, then 16 million and 19 million. Like what I mentioned above, the is not a problem. It is just something that affects the salary cap.

Now, I am absolutely sure you will hear Keim and others mention it several times as reasons why they did not go after X or Y player, but as you can see, he is simply arguing against logic. My best guess is that he will do it to protect himself from criticism because of what he don’t do during the offseason. For example, if there is a player, with a huge reputation, at a position of need, all of us might hope for Keim to sign him, but when he don’t, he can blame it on the salary cap because he can get away with it, since many people do not know what I have explained.

By the way, that is also why I will not mention any contract-ideas in this post. They can construct them however they want, and I will not care.

4 – So, because of what I just mentioned, it is not because of the salary cap that Keim calls it “out of the question” to release David Johnson. But if I remember the interview correct, he does not say anything about the salary cap, but just that he talks about how the contract is structured? If so, then he is probably right that it is out of the question since the teams owes him a huge amount of real money, and I guess they want some return on that.

5 – I would re-sign Kenyan Drake tomorrow. Not to a massive deal, but to a team-friendly, and simply because he has proven to be great in Kingsbury’s system. I totally understand the notion that it is easy to find capable runningbacks – and to an extent, I fully agree – but we already know that Drake is good, so why risk anything? Now, from Drake’s perspective it is obviously much better to wait and see if someone offer him a bigger deal.

I would also bring back Brett Hundley, Pharoh Cooper. Charles Clay, Rodney Gunter, Cassius Marsh. Every other free agent could leave for all I care.

6 – If I am in charge, I am focusing heavily on the trenches.

7 – Trade? Well, I am not selling a top 10 pick, but maybe with another payment.

8 – I am absolutely thrilled they brought back Humphries. He still has room to work with potential-wise, and he is already at least above average. Besides, you don’t need a great offensive line to win. You “just” need a serviceable one to be effective.

9 – Back in the 2015 draft there were chatter that Steve Keim wanted edge rusher Bud Dupree. He got drafted by the Steelers two spots ahead of the Cards, but now he might be a free agent, and the Cards has a need at edge rusher. Personnel guys don’t forget players, and especially not such a short time after they targeted them. Maybe the reports back then were right, and Keim goes after Dupree this time?

10 – Defensive tackles Chris Jones (Chiefs), Jordan Phillips (Bills, and maybe the best D-lineman nobody has heard about), Shelby Harris (Broncos), Derek Wolfe (Broncos) and Ethan Westbrook (free agent) is some of my favorites. And if the rumors are true, and the Jags does cut Calais Campbell, then you don’t even think about getting cute, but sign him the next hour.

11 – Offensive tackles Jack Conklin (Titans), Daryl Williams (Panthers) Hapa-yadda Vaitai (Eagles), and offensive guards Joe Thuney (Patriots) and Connor McGovern (Brocos) are my biggest favorites.

12 – Other players I like:

Wide receiver Amari Cooper – Cowboys.

Inside linebacker Nick Kwiatkowski – Bears.

Tight end Austin Hooper – Falcons.

Inside linebacker Joe Schobert – Browns.

13 – If I was forced to make a preferred list (like I am doing to myself right now), it would go:

1 – Amari Cooper.

2 – Chris Jones.

3 – Joe Thuney.

4 – Bud Dupree.

5 – Jack Conklin.

14 – Mr. Keim, I am writing to you to ask if you could please extend Patrick Peterson.

This is one of the best cornerbacks in the league. This is a player that allows you to do so much various stuff on defense. This is a player who came on very strong last season after many people had wanted to trade him. This is a superstar who – for some unknown reasons – are actually underrated.

15 – Brentson Buckner back, is that cool or what? I think we were all surprised when they kept defensive line coach Chris Achuff from Wilks’ staff, but I also think Buckner has created good results everywhere he has been as a coach. And also I just like him.
 

Solar7

Go Suns
Joined
May 18, 2002
Posts
10,912
Reaction score
11,433
Location
Las Vegas, NV
I always enjoy your 15 thoughts stuff, but there's lots to respond to here.

2 – It has been hard not to notice how many on this board is calling for Keim’s departure, and I can pretty much guarantee that phenomenon will not decrease as we get deeper into the offseason. So, I really, really, really would like someone to explain to me why they want to set the team back to zero again? We all know that Kingsbury and Kyler Murray separately were - and are – big and unconventional chances, and that they are certainly not for every personnel guy, and together? Well, talk about a gamble. Keim made that gamble. If they bring in a new general manager, who is to say that he want to make that gamble as well? And if they make sure they hire a general manager, who do want to go with those two, do you really want a potential yes-man as general manager?

So, I ask again: why do people keep wanting to set the team back to where they were before last season – only without a general manager as well.
My answer to this is simple: I don't believe Kliff Kingsbury is ever going to change his stripes and become a winning coach. Keim isn't going anywhere until the 2021 offseason, so it's not going to happen until then, but if this team ends up with a non-winning record again, like I think it will, what are we doing spinning our wheels? I don't want to hire a GM who believes blindly in Kingsbury or Kyler. If the team's structure isn't a winning one, rip off the band-aid and make the change.

5 – I would re-sign Kenyan Drake tomorrow. Not to a massive deal, but to a team-friendly, and simply because he has proven to be great in Kingsbury’s system. I totally understand the notion that it is easy to find capable runningbacks – and to an extent, I fully agree – but we already know that Drake is good, so why risk anything?
Kenyan Drake has three and a half years of not being good, compared to three great games when he was trying to maximize his value for a juicy contract. He is a prime contender to sign his deal, kick up his feet, and start playing like the guy who couldn't consistently break into the starting lineup for the Dolphins. I don't want to re-sign him at all. I won't scream if it's a cheap deal or one-year deal, but signing him to a sizable multi-year deal feels like a big mistake to me.

9 – Back in the 2015 draft there were chatter that Steve Keim wanted edge rusher Bud Dupree. He got drafted by the Steelers two spots ahead of the Cards, but now he might be a free agent, and the Cards has a need at edge rusher. Personnel guys don’t forget players, and especially not such a short time after they targeted them. Maybe the reports back then were right, and Keim goes after Dupree this time?
Dupree is getting franchise tagged, so this isn't happening.


13 – If I was forced to make a preferred list (like I am doing to myself right now), it would go:

1 – Amari Cooper.

2 – Chris Jones.

3 – Joe Thuney.

4 – Bud Dupree.

5 – Jack Conklin.

14 – Mr. Keim, I am writing to you to ask if you could please extend Patrick Peterson.
I'm not sure we have the money for a lot of these guys. I'm a fan of all, but Dupree won't be available, and we have too many spots to fill.

Anyways, as far as the rest go, no big concerns.
 

football karma

Happy in the pretense of knowledge
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
14,575
Reaction score
12,448
how I am approaching free agency / managing expectations on who the Cards may sign:

whenever I see a "Top 50 Free Agent list" -- I start at #50 and work up. Anything above #25 is likely too expensive
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,367
Reaction score
33,917
Location
Colorado
I always enjoy your 15 thoughts stuff, but there's lots to respond to here.


My answer to this is simple: I don't believe Kliff Kingsbury is ever going to change his stripes and become a winning coach. Keim isn't going anywhere until the 2021 offseason, so it's not going to happen until then, but if this team ends up with a non-winning record again, like I think it will, what are we doing spinning our wheels? I don't want to hire a GM who believes blindly in Kingsbury or Kyler. If the team's structure isn't a winning one, rip off the band-aid and make the change.


Kenyan Drake has three and a half years of not being good, compared to three great games when he was trying to maximize his value for a juicy contract. He is a prime contender to sign his deal, kick up his feet, and start playing like the guy who couldn't consistently break into the starting lineup for the Dolphins. I don't want to re-sign him at all. I won't scream if it's a cheap deal or one-year deal, but signing him to a sizable multi-year deal feels like a big mistake to me.


Dupree is getting franchise tagged, so this isn't happening.



I'm not sure we have the money for a lot of these guys. I'm a fan of all, but Dupree won't be available, and we have too many spots to fill.

Anyways, as far as the rest go, no big concerns.
lol...Jarvis Landry got a huge deal from the Browns and has produced. Tannehill may get franchised and won playoff games for the Titans. Drake looked like a completely different player for the Cardinals. Davante Parker suddenly looks like ayoung superstar WR. But, I am sure you are correct that the only answer is that all of these players had fluke production after they left Miami under Adam Gase. It could not possibly have been the coach or offensive scheme...
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
35,940
Reaction score
24,608
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I think you misunderstand the difference between a hard cap and a soft cap. A soft cap is like what the NBA and MLB have, where there are penalties for spending more than $X dollars on players — a luxury cap.

The NFL has a "hard cap" in that if you're over the cap, you can't sign any players, and if you write a contract that puts you over the cap in the current season, the NFL won't ratify it.

The Humphries contract should tell you that Keim does not plan to do everything possible to compete for a playoff spot this season. A couple additional dummy years and a greater signing bonus would have taken greater advantage of the flexibility afforded by a rookie QB contract. Don't expect major moves on the free agency front.

I think Keim likes using free agency to fill roster holes with scratch-and-dent players at complementary positions and reserve the first two rounds of the draft for adding talent that is often overpriced in free agency. Expect that, and you won't be disappointed.
 
OP
OP
Gandhi

Gandhi

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Posts
1,787
Reaction score
2,292
Location
Denmark
My answer to this is simple: I don't believe Kliff Kingsbury is ever going to change his stripes and become a winning coach. Keim isn't going anywhere until the 2021 offseason, so it's not going to happen until then, but if this team ends up with a non-winning record again, like I think it will, what are we doing spinning our wheels? I don't want to hire a GM who believes blindly in Kingsbury or Kyler. If the team's structure isn't a winning one, rip off the band-aid and make the change.

That is completely fair, Solar! I did not think about it that way. My premise was always the – at least – hope for success, and not the expectation of failure. I stand corrected.

Dupree is getting franchise tagged, so this isn't happening.

So is other of the players I have mentioned. As I said, the premise is that none of us know. We have reports, but nothing concrete.

I'm not sure we have the money for a lot of these guys. I'm a fan of all, but Dupree won't be available, and we have too many spots to fill.

Why would they not have the money?
 
OP
OP
Gandhi

Gandhi

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Posts
1,787
Reaction score
2,292
Location
Denmark
I think you misunderstand the difference between a hard cap and a soft cap. A soft cap is like what the NBA and MLB have, where there are penalties for spending more than $X dollars on players — a luxury cap.

No, I am sorry, but you have got it wrong.

I have already shown you, but I think I will include text from former NFL general manager, and now writer on SI.com, Andrew Brandt:

“Yes, the NBA cap allows exceptions that give teams flexibility to exceed the cap: Bird rights, midlevel exceptions, etc. But the NFL has a much simpler way for teams to exceed the cap: the proration of signing bonuses, allowing teams to spend cash while spreading cap over the life of contracts and renegotiations. To clarify: NFL teams can spend well above the cap on a year-to-year basis while staying under it. That, my friends, is a soft cap.

For example, Aaron Rodgers’s extension with the Packers—which included a $57.5 million signing bonus—included a 2018 cap number of $21 million and a 2018 cash number of…$67 million. That $46 million difference in cash over cap—for just one player—shows how NFL teams can go “over the cap” from a cash spending point of view. And the Packers spent roughly $205 million last season on a cap of $177 million. With this ability to go tens of millions of dollars over the cap number on one player, there is nothing “hard” about the NFL salary cap.

Furthermore, NBA teams have three restrictions that NFL team do not: (1) maximum contracts, (2) a luxury tax, and (3) no ability to roll over cap from year to year. Maximum contracts limit the earning power of the most elite players, and the luxury tax—while not prohibiting teams from overspending—has a deterrent effect that NBA owners mention frequently in their spending decisions. As to cap rollover from one year to the next, NFL teams can bring unused cap room forward to the next season; NBA teams do not have that luxury (and most teams spend all their cap room anyway).

The NFL, of course, has no maximum contracts, no luxury taxes and unlimited cap carryover from year to year. I know this flies in the face of the common narrative, but the NFL has a softer cap than the NBA.”

Remember that this was about six months ago – before he knew more about the new CBA – and the salary cap will only go up now. No, I am sorry, but every thought that the salary cap matters is wrong.

Now, one way that you might be right is that there is real money – and not just “paper-money” involved in these contracts. They might simple not want to spend that much money.

The NFL has a "hard cap" in that if you're over the cap, you can't sign any players, and if you write a contract that puts you over the cap in the current season, the NFL won't ratify it.

This is true. Just like they have a salary floor. It still does not matter, though.
 

BullheadCardFan

Go for it
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Posts
59,991
Reaction score
22,484
Location
Bullhead City, AZ
I think Keim likes using free agency to fill roster holes with scratch-and-dent players at complementary positions and reserve the first two rounds of the draft for adding talent that is often overpriced in free agency. Expect that, and you won't be disappointed.
Great line and I believe you are correct.
 

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
14,979
Reaction score
14,367
Location
Plainfield, Il.
Great line and I believe you are correct.
Up until 2019 Keims biggest mistake was he thought the team was good enough to compete. We weren’t. Think of the player(s) we could have today with the 30 m be spent on Bradford. THAT was the year to start a rebuild.

Now we see and understand we are in the middle of a rebuild. Keim has some money to spend . I don’t think he’s going to look for many prove it deals. The problem with signing a high profile free agent is the risk of availability that exist with every player. I.E., sign Chris Jones for 20 m and his back-up is a bum. If Jones goes down with injuries you have a huge hole. Wouldn’t a team be better off spending 20m on TWO competent players?

I think we will see more of this thought process.
 

RugbyMuffin

ASFN IDOL
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Posts
30,484
Reaction score
4,846
The Keim situation is simple. He has a job to do, does not get it done, and makes the same mistakes over and over again.

This organization had one if the best defenses I have seen in a long time.....he killed it, pissed in it, and set it a flame.

Fielded the worst Cardinal team I had ever seen, and I have been watching since the 90's, so that is saying something to be that bad. Not only that, Wilk's Cardinals may be one of the worst teams in NFL history.

Taking the team back to ground zero? It doesn't get any more "zero'd" then the Wilks year. So, not really that far from it.

We do not need a yes man, just a competent one.

Keeping status quo for the sake of keeping it is never a good thing. Kiem has earned his criticism and would have already been fired in many other organizations.



Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy
 

Garthshort

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Posts
8,939
Reaction score
4,772
Location
Scarsdale, NY
Gandhi, just a great, great job.
#3-My head is spinning, even though I knew that there was a floor. I'm too old to figure out the CAP and where we stand. I did hear, recently, that the CAP went up $12M this year.

#5-No way that Drake signs a team friendly deal, imo, w/o seeing what FA offers he gets.

It will be fun to see who we add in FA. And I'm sure that there are a number of posters who have already prepared a post as to why that signing is a terrible one. Just waiting to hit send. :)
 

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
14,979
Reaction score
14,367
Location
Plainfield, Il.
Great post Ghandi!

I don’t see us going after any “18m” free agents.

I agree with re-signing all of our free agents you mentioned.

I would like to see these guys brought in.

Nick Kwiatkowski but I think we end up up with a guy like
Danny Trevathan

Shelby Harris or Jordan Phillips

Conner McGovern. This would be great.

Calais Campbell would help immensely but would probably have to limit his snaps if you want to get the most out of him.

That leaves OLB. Fowler would be awesome. The Rams can’t sign everyone and I think they want Littleton more.

If we did this and nothing else I would be happy.

Draft Lamb and then BPA on front 7 and OL.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
35,940
Reaction score
24,608
Location
Gilbert, AZ
No, I am sorry, but you have got it wrong.

I have already shown you, but I think I will include text from former NFL general manager, and now writer on SI.com, Andrew Brandt:

“Yes, the NBA cap allows exceptions that give teams flexibility to exceed the cap: Bird rights, midlevel exceptions, etc. But the NFL has a much simpler way for teams to exceed the cap: the proration of signing bonuses, allowing teams to spend cash while spreading cap over the life of contracts and renegotiations. To clarify: NFL teams can spend well above the cap on a year-to-year basis while staying under it. That, my friends, is a soft cap.

For example, Aaron Rodgers’s extension with the Packers—which included a $57.5 million signing bonus—included a 2018 cap number of $21 million and a 2018 cash number of…$67 million. That $46 million difference in cash over cap—for just one player—shows how NFL teams can go “over the cap” from a cash spending point of view. And the Packers spent roughly $205 million last season on a cap of $177 million. With this ability to go tens of millions of dollars over the cap number on one player, there is nothing “hard” about the NFL salary cap.

Furthermore, NBA teams have three restrictions that NFL team do not: (1) maximum contracts, (2) a luxury tax, and (3) no ability to roll over cap from year to year. Maximum contracts limit the earning power of the most elite players, and the luxury tax—while not prohibiting teams from overspending—has a deterrent effect that NBA owners mention frequently in their spending decisions. As to cap rollover from one year to the next, NFL teams can bring unused cap room forward to the next season; NBA teams do not have that luxury (and most teams spend all their cap room anyway).

The NFL, of course, has no maximum contracts, no luxury taxes and unlimited cap carryover from year to year. I know this flies in the face of the common narrative, but the NFL has a softer cap than the NBA.”

Remember that this was about six months ago – before he knew more about the new CBA – and the salary cap will only go up now. No, I am sorry, but every thought that the salary cap matters is wrong.

Now, one way that you might be right is that there is real money – and not just “paper-money” involved in these contracts. They might simple not want to spend that much money.



This is true. Just like they have a salary floor. It still does not matter, though.

First, Andrew Brandt has never been an NFL general manager.

Second, yes, if you define "hard cap" and "soft cap" as the opposite of their actual meanings, then you are correct. But those terms already have meanings.

Hard Cap: You can only spend so much money, and the league prevents you from spending more.
Soft Cap: You can spend as much money as you want, but there are penalties for going over.

What Brandt doesn't mention is that the guarantees in NFL contracts have to be held in escrow, also, which serves as an additional limiter to contracts.

No one is saying that Keim doesn't have the flexibility to spend more in cash than they have in cap space this year. In fact, that's exactly what I referred to when I said that Keim's deal with D.J. Humphries highlights that we're not doing everything we can to compete this year.

But, in the NFL, every dollar spent on player compensation must be accounted for in that year or down the line, against the cap. Just because the cap goes up doesn't mean that you can go over it; there's a reason that the Dallas Cowboys are letting a good young player in Byron Jones leave in free agency, and there's a reason that the Jaguars traded A.J. Bouye — because they anticipate that they won't be able to retain them and keep flexibility against the hard cap.

You don't even have your facts straight on the salary floor, which is calculated as a percentage of a rolling four-year average of the maximum cap, and no one has even attempted to subvert. The last time I remember it coming in to play was when the Cards couldn't sign anyone in like 2003 and signed L.J. Shelton to an extension right before they would have been required to disburse the remaining cap money among the players on the roster.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
14,345
Reaction score
10,527
The Keim situation is simple. He has a job to do, does not get it done, and makes the same mistakes over and over again.

This organization had one if the best defenses I have seen in a long time.....he killed it, pissed in it, and set it a flame.

Fielded the worst Cardinal team I had ever seen, and I have been watching since the 90's, so that is saying something to be that bad. Not only that, Wilk's Cardinals may be one of the worst teams in NFL history.

Taking the team back to ground zero? It doesn't get any more "zero'd" then the Wilks year. So, not really that far from it.

We do not need a yes man, just a competent one.

Keeping status quo for the sake of keeping it is never a good thing. Kiem has earned his criticism and would have already been fired in many other organizations.



Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy


Exactly...I don't know how this is such a mystery to some on the board. His track record in free agency and the draft has been terrible for a long time. (which doesn't even mention his personal problems) This team has holes all around, yet Keim isn't responsible for that?

Outside of being BFF's with the owner, any other team would have canned him.
 

Skipper1111

Rookie
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Posts
63
Reaction score
39
Location
Chandler
I would not sign any tired veterans, this is becoming a young mans game, watch and see.
You need linebackers that can cover the fastest tight ends for example. Calais is ancient! And there’s a reason a team lets what was once a good player go..
 

Brak

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Posts
2,685
Reaction score
2,587
I agree 100% on the Drake comment.

I don't get why so many on this board are against re-signing him, or think that he's gonna be "too expensive". He's NOT going to command huge money on the FA market. History tells us that. Nor do I expect him to sign a new deal and "put his feet up" and quit because he got paid. He'll be productive back for someone next year, worth whatever he ultimately signs for, and fact is he's proven to be the right fit here, in this system, and he has clearly indicated that he likes being here and wants to come back - and that is a bigger deal (to me at least) than some seem to make of it.

Sign him. Even if he tests the waters and drives the price up slightly. There will be zero regret when the smoke clears.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
14,345
Reaction score
10,527
I agree 100% on the Drake comment.

I don't get why so many on this board are against re-signing him, or think that he's gonna be "too expensive".

Because he wants to get paid, and good teams don't invest large amounts in the RB position. We've already made that mistake once, and Drake ain't the exception to the rule.

I wouldn't pay him more than 4M per...what would you consider too expensive? Have you seen the rest of the roster? Lots of holes to fill with minimal resources.

Wasting 5M plus on an average RB is what keeps bad teams bad.
 

AZman5103

Hall of Famer
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Posts
1,673
Reaction score
1,767
Location
Idaho
Offer Drake 4 years, 20 million with 8 million guaranteed. I don't think he gets more than that anywhere else. If he does, good for him, we can move on.

There are several backs in the draft that we could get in round 3 that would be perfectly serviceable in a committee with Edmonds.

If we can trade DJ, even better.

Ill roll with Edmonds, Edwards-Ellaire (3rd round) and Zach Moss (6th Round)
 

Solar7

Go Suns
Joined
May 18, 2002
Posts
10,912
Reaction score
11,433
Location
Las Vegas, NV
I agree 100% on the Drake comment.

I don't get why so many on this board are against re-signing him, or think that he's gonna be "too expensive". He's NOT going to command huge money on the FA market. History tells us that. Nor do I expect him to sign a new deal and "put his feet up" and quit because he got paid. He'll be productive back for someone next year, worth whatever he ultimately signs for, and fact is he's proven to be the right fit here, in this system, and he has clearly indicated that he likes being here and wants to come back - and that is a bigger deal (to me at least) than some seem to make of it.

Sign him. Even if he tests the waters and drives the price up slightly. There will be zero regret when the smoke clears.
Where has he said a single time that he wants to be here? Everything I've seen from him is him talking about how he's going to do what is best for his family from a financial situation, never that he likes this team.

Wasting 5M plus on an average RB is what keeps bad teams bad.
This. Drake just isn't very good. He's okay, and will flash at times, but has never been a reliable starter in college or the NFL.
 
OP
OP
Gandhi

Gandhi

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Posts
1,787
Reaction score
2,292
Location
Denmark
What Brandt doesn't mention is that the guarantees in NFL contracts have to be held in escrow, also, which serves as an additional limiter to contracts.

Well, not to be disrespectful, but I am going to take a former NFL personnel guy’s words over a fans’. I highly doubt Brandt “forgot” to tell us something. I am more inclined to think that he wrote it as it truly is, and thus what is relevant to you and me.

But, in the NFL, every dollar spent on player compensation must be accounted for in that year or down the line, against the cap. Just because the cap goes up doesn't mean that you can go over it

You are right, but I have never said anything about spending over the cap limit? In fact, I was careful to point out that you cannot ignore the salary cap. It is just so easy to manipulate it that every NFL personnel guy can do it in their sleep.
 

Solar7

Go Suns
Joined
May 18, 2002
Posts
10,912
Reaction score
11,433
Location
Las Vegas, NV
lol...Jarvis Landry got a huge deal from the Browns and has produced. Tannehill may get franchised and won playoff games for the Titans. Drake looked like a completely different player for the Cardinals. Davante Parker suddenly looks like ayoung superstar WR. But, I am sure you are correct that the only answer is that all of these players had fluke production after they left Miami under Adam Gase. It could not possibly have been the coach or offensive scheme...
Sorry, I missed this earlier.

Landry produced with Miami, and continued producing. This isn't the same thing. Tannehill, sure. Devante Parker is not a superstar, there was just no one else to throw to on a team that was traditionally way behind.

I'm sorry, but the cream rises to the top. Drake had half a season without Gase in Miami and still did nothing. You guys are paying for three great games, and if not for one 80 yard run, pretty much two great games.


Why would they not have the money?
Like I said, too many positions to fill with too many gaps on the roster. Here's a chart I put together a week or two ago to show how many empty roster spots we have. Gotta pay a lot of guys just to field a team.

You must be registered for see images attach
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
35,940
Reaction score
24,608
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Well, not to be disrespectful, but I am going to take a former NFL personnel guy’s words over a fans’. I highly doubt Brandt “forgot” to tell us something. I am more inclined to think that he wrote it as it truly is, and thus what is relevant to you and me.



You are right, but I have never said anything about spending over the cap limit? In fact, I was careful to point out that you cannot ignore the salary cap. It is just so easy to manipulate it that every NFL personnel guy can do it in their sleep.

And yet here we've been the last two years unable to field a competitive team. Makes you wonder why people want Keim fired, huh?
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
11,530
Reaction score
9,049
Because he wants to get paid, and good teams don't invest large amounts in the RB position. We've already made that mistake once, and Drake ain't the exception to the rule.

I wouldn't pay him more than 4M per...what would you consider too expensive? Have you seen the rest of the roster? Lots of holes to fill with minimal resources.

Wasting 5M plus on an average RB is what keeps bad teams bad.

If Drake looked like just an average back, I would be fully on board with replacing him - but he didn't, he was fantastic.

Spending 5 mil of cap room on a guy you know works is well worth it, as opposed to drafting a total unknown, when the most likely outcome is they will be subpar, is stupid.
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,367
Reaction score
33,917
Location
Colorado
Sorry, I missed this earlier.

Landry produced with Miami, and continued producing. This isn't the same thing. Tannehill, sure. Devante Parker is not a superstar, there was just no one else to throw to on a team that was traditionally way behind.

I'm sorry, but the cream rises to the top. Drake had half a season without Gase in Miami and still did nothing. You guys are paying for three great games, and if not for one 80 yard run, pretty much two great games.



Like I said, too many positions to fill with too many gaps on the roster. Here's a chart I put together a week or two ago to show how many empty roster spots we have. Gotta pay a lot of guys just to field a team.

You must be registered for see images attach
DeVante Parker

72 receptions

1202 yards (4th most by all WRs in NFL)

16.7 yards per reception (8th most in NFL)

9 TDs (tied for 4th most in NFL and 3rd most by WRs)

So dynamic, lots of yardage and scores TDs...what definition do you go by "superstar"?
 

Solar7

Go Suns
Joined
May 18, 2002
Posts
10,912
Reaction score
11,433
Location
Las Vegas, NV
DeVante Parker

72 receptions

1202 yards (4th most by all WRs in NFL)

16.7 yards per reception (8th most in NFL)

9 TDs (tied for 4th most in NFL and 3rd most by WRs)

So dynamic, lots of yardage and scores TDs...what definition do you go by "superstar"?
128 targets. His catch rate was 171st in the league, at 56.3%.

That screams to me that it was mainly the volume of targets instead of him being really good, on account of no one else being around to throw to.
 
Top