10 thoughts - Jaguars game

[HairZach]

Well, many have already explained it, so this is only going to be repeating, but when you are drafting that high you expect a great player. Not “top 10”.
By the way, have you studied his game? He isn’t playing great.

There are 1-3 OTs taken top 10 every single year with one usually in the top 6, and you want them all to be better than top 10? How is anyone supposed to read that statement and take it seriously? I dont think you understand what a great player looks like. Are your standards that every top 6 pick should be first ballot HOF?

We are one of the few lucky teams that actually got a good one, he's a whole lot better than Will Campbell, Evan Neal or Ekwonu guys all taken top 7 in the last 3 years. In my mind the idea that he is bad is entirely because there are other OTs who are better, because he's not Joe Alt or Sewell. Hell, I know people here wouldnt be happy with Sewell. He's played his whole career as RT and come draft time theres a horde of fans living 30 years in the past who hate the idea of spending a top pick on a RT.

Over the course of this season Paris has been playing fantastic. That doesn't change after a below average game.

 

[kerouac9]

Of course not. But the 3 guys we need to replace Evan Brown, Will H and Jonah Williams, were all signed as FA's.

I think it's gotten tougher and tougher to get good OL's as FA's when you get one they're almost always available for a reason. Will before he knee injury was the rare exception for us a FA who played well.

The most likely scenario is getting a RT and one G in the draft and either Will comes all the way back from his knee, which seems unlikely, or find a G in FA for the other G spot. I do think we need to operate under the assumption to "fix" the OL we need to replace those 3 positions. We don't have the replacement on the roster that I'm aware of

I think there are efficiencies in getting FA OL who played sparingly on their rookie deals. Your Froholdt types and Evans Brown. Those guys can be had for very little on a one- or two-year deal and then you can extend them for mid-tier money.

What you can’t do is sink a roster spot into Jon Gaines who plays one offensive snap a game in his third season. Let some other team weed out prospects who can’t play and take advantage of the later maturity curve.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think there are efficiencies in getting FA OL who played sparingly on their rookie deals. Your Froholdt types and Evans Brown. Those guys can be had for very little on a one- or two-year deal and then you can extend them for mid-tier money.

What you can’t do is sink a roster spot into Jon Gaines who plays one offensive snap a game in his third season. Let some other team weed out prospects who can’t play and take advantage of the later maturity curve.

I agree but what I see watching games every week is almost every team in the NFL has a shortage of OL. So most of the guys who are available are for a reason.

Harry has mentioned Evan Neal a few times, he was available at the trade deadline, he's going to be a UFA and will almost assuredly walk because the Giants think he sucks. He was drafted as a T, moved to guard and he's just not that good. These are the types of guys who are typically available IMO.

 

[kerouac9]

I agree but what I see watching games every week is almost every team in the NFL has a shortage of OL. So most of the guys who are available are for a reason.

Harry has mentioned Evan Neal a few times, he was available at the trade deadline, he's going to be a UFA and will almost assuredly walk because the Giants think he sucks. He was drafted as a T, moved to guard and he's just not that good. These are the types of guys who are typically available IMO.

Yes the guys who are exposed early you have to dump. Instead of signing 2-3 names you drop directly into your OL, sign six or seven guys like Brett Toth and bring them to camp. You’re gonna have to give them some money up front, but if you get a couple of midlevel veteran starters it more than pays off.

 

[Gandhi]

There are 1-3 OTs taken top 10 every single year with one usually in the top 6, and you want them all to be better than top 10?

Could you point me to where I wrote that? I just want the one the Cardinals pick to be great.

We are one of the few lucky teams that actually got a good one, he's a whole lot better than Will Campbell, Evan Neal or Ekwonu guys all taken top 7 in the last 3 years. In my mind the idea that he is bad is entirely because there are other OTs who are better, because he's not Joe Alt or Sewell. Hell, I know people here wouldnt be happy with Sewell. He's played his whole career as RT and come draft time theres a horde of fans living 30 years in the past who hate the idea of spending a top pick on a RT.

Over the course of this season Paris has been playing fantastic. That doesn't change after a below average game.

It’s a shame that you apparently haven’t watched Campbell and Ekwonu either play this season.

Anyway, it's cool if you want to settle for above average. That is not going to win the NFC West, but hey, to each his own.

 

[Proteus]

My next head coach favorite is Saleh. His background is defense. I need to start searching for a good OC, JIC. The problem is Saleh will be in big demand too. Trying to find a guy who could fix a mess this big, is off the radar and would work for Bidwill may be a bridge too far. I’ll keep looking.

A problem with a defensive head coach is that if their offensive coordinator is doing a good job they'll probably leave for a head coaching job in 1 to 3 years. Then you'd have to find a new offensive coordinator and their system will probably be at least somewhat different.

 

[Dback Jon]

A problem with a defensive head coach is that if their offensive coordinator is doing a good job they'll probably leave for a head coaching job in 1 to 3 years. Then you'd have to find a new offensive coordinator and their system will probably be at least somewhat different.

So you are telling me that the risk is if the Cardinals are TOO GOOD, we might lose a coordinator?

I repeat, if we are TOO GOOD? And that is a problem?

 

[daves]

My next head coach favorite is Saleh. His background is defense. I need to start searching for a good OC, JIC. The problem is Saleh will be in big demand too. Trying to find a guy who could fix a mess this big, is off the radar and would work for Bidwill may be a bridge too far. I’ll keep looking.

I saw someone suggest that Mike McDaniel would be a perfect OC to pair with Saleh as HC. Makes sense to me, and based on his work with Tagovailoa he'd probably be great at developing a rookie QB... but he might be hired away again if he's successful, and I'm not sure the Cardinals would hire back-to-back defensive head coaches.

 

[Proteus]

So you are telling me that the risk is if the Cardinals are TOO GOOD, we might lose a coordinator?

I repeat, if we are TOO GOOD? And that is a problem?

Well having a good offensive coordinator isn't a problem but having to replace them after 1 to 2 seasons could be.

 

[Chopper0080]

Could you point me to where I wrote that? I just want the one the Cardinals pick to be great.


It’s a shame that you apparently haven’t watched Campbell and Ekwonu either play this season.

Anyway, it's cool if you want to settle for above average. That is not going to win the NFC West, but hey, to each his own.

I am curious what LTs you consider better than PJJ.

 

[kerouac9]

I am curious what LTs you consider better than PJJ.

Mialata
Wirfs
Trent Williams
Tunsil
Bolles
Andrew Thomas
Dion Dawkins

 

[Gandhi]

Mialata
Wirfs
Trent Williams
Tunsil
Bolles
Andrew Thomas
Dion Dawkins

I can add Rashawn Slater and Christian Darrisaw. You could argue Taylor Decker and Ronnie Stanley.

 

[Gandhi]

A problem with a defensive head coach is that if their offensive coordinator is doing a good job they'll probably leave for a head coaching job in 1 to 3 years. Then you'd have to find a new offensive coordinator and their system will probably be at least somewhat different.

I heard a theory that one potentially good thing with hiring Robert Salah or Chris Shula from the Rams is that they would know how to stop Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay.

 

[Gandhi]

5 It’s just a label. You throw to the open guy

Nah, it does matter. It has to do with playcalling and quarterback reads.

 

[phillycard]

There’s something ironic about the Cards offering the biggest QB rehab project and people wanting the Cards to trade for one.

It's just time. What's often unmentioned through all of this is Kyler's mindset. I think he himself wants a change of scenery. I think he's done with us just as much as we are with him. I could be wrong though.

 

[phillycard]

My next head coach favorite is Saleh. His background is defense. I need to start searching for a good OC, JIC. The problem is Saleh will be in big demand too. Trying to find a guy who could fix a mess this big, is off the radar and would work for Bidwill may be a bridge too far. I’ll keep looking.

I would do a back flip for Saleh. Funny that I didn't feel that way after he left the Jets. But I think that what he's done with that Whiners D, and his confrontation with Coen has changed me. Problem is, he's too Alpha for this org.

 

[phillycard]

A problem with a defensive head coach is that if their offensive coordinator is doing a good job they'll probably leave for a head coaching job in 1 to 3 years. Then you'd have to find a new offensive coordinator and their system will probably be at least somewhat different.

Philadelphia eagles

 

[Chopper0080]

Mialata
Wirfs
Trent Williams
Tunsil
Bolles
Andrew Thomas
Dion Dawkins

Wirfs
T Williams
Andrew Thomas (but injuries)
Rashawn Slater (also injuries)
Dion Dawkins
Darrisaw
Decker. (maybe)

Strong disagreement on Bolles and Tunsil. No on Stanley. Charles Cross is probably up for debate.

PJJ is the youngest of these names by 2 years except for Cross. I think he is fine. He has been the best OT out of his draft class. PJJ, Alt, and Charles Cross are debatable in who is the best tackle drafted since Sewell in 2022. The Will Anderson/PJJ is a strange thing to debate at this point in time. Both are good players. The Cardinals added a 1st round pick. I don't know that there is a difference of a 1st round pick between Anderson and PJJ. If the Cardinals fumbled that 1st round pick should not be part of that debate IMO.

 

[kerouac9]

The Will Anderson/PJJ is a strange thing to debate at this point in time. Both are good players. The Cardinals added a 1st round pick. I don't know that there is a difference of a 1st round pick between Anderson and PJJ. If the Cardinals fumbled that 1st round pick should not be part of that debate IMO.

This is the important thing. I don’t feel like people bring up the trade often, and it’s usually people trying to justify a trade that hasn’t worked out.

If the trade had worked out, we wouldn’t suck so much.

 

[Stout]

This is the important thing. I don’t feel like people bring up the trade often, and it’s usually people trying to justify a trade that hasn’t worked out.

If the trade had worked out, we wouldn’t suck so much.

But it didn't work out. It was magic beans.

 

[Stout]

Wirfs
T Williams
Andrew Thomas (but injuries)
Rashawn Slater (also injuries)
Dion Dawkins
Darrisaw
Decker. (maybe)

Strong disagreement on Bolles and Tunsil. No on Stanley. Charles Cross is probably up for debate.

PJJ is the youngest of these names by 2 years except for Cross. I think he is fine. He has been the best OT out of his draft class. PJJ, Alt, and Charles Cross are debatable in who is the best tackle drafted since Sewell in 2022. The Will Anderson/PJJ is a strange thing to debate at this point in time. Both are good players. The Cardinals added a 1st round pick. I don't know that there is a difference of a 1st round pick between Anderson and PJJ. If the Cardinals fumbled that 1st round pick should not be part of that debate IMO.

No, the Cards added an ineffectual dud. Magic beans. Sure, if Monti hadn't have flubbed it, we'd be having a different conversation. He didn't, so here we are.

 

[kerouac9]

But it didn't work out. It was magic beans.

Yeah but that doesn’t mean PJ sucks.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah but that doesn’t mean PJ sucks.

AGAIN… why do you do this? This is just another lie. No one is saying PJ sucks. Throwing that kind of crap into the thread only serves to try and derail any rational discussion.

 

[kerouac9]

AGAIN… why do you do this? This is just another lie. No one is saying PJ sucks. Throwing that kind of crap into the thread only serves to try and derail any rational discussion.

Or whatever. Why are you policing me? The most frequent offenders are those saying Monti dominated the trade or PJJ is an elite OT. Those people are wrong.

 

[Stout]

Yeah but that doesn’t mean PJ sucks.

Straw man. Nobody said PJJ sucks. Try again.