“Who would stop this Cardinals offense?”

[oaken1]

What difference does it make if the Cards get 47.5% of scrimmage yards from Love, 42.5% from Allgeier, and 10% from Conner/Benson, similar to the Lions with Gibbs, Montgomery et al. when they went 12-5 in 2023; or if they hit your magic range with 66.5% from Love, 32.8% from Allgeier, and 0.7% from Conner/Benson as the Lions did when they went 9-7 in 2025?

The contracts for Love, Allgeier, and the rest will pay them what they pay them regardless. The yards are going to add up regardless. So who cares about "wasting a year" for Love? If anything, it seems better to "save a year" of his short career for 2027 and beyond, when the Cardinals will have a better possibility of being competitive. What benefit is there to "running this dude into the ground" this year?!?

The only "benefit" of Love getting 65%-75% usage is that Monty can say, "he was a great pick and worth what we're paying him!" Who cares? The Cardinals picked him and they're going to pay him regardless.

It's a team sport. Love will make the team better. Full stop.

How many yards is it worth if he stops a blitzes and prevents a sack??
Do we only give him credit for the 6 yards we didn't lose?
Or do we give him credit for the 35 yards made by the completion he protected?
How much credit does he get when Wilson or Marv get behind their guy because the defense is playing up tight to help prevent the run?

Team sport. Takes a gestalt viewpoint. Lots of ways Love can make the team better that dont necessarily jump off the stat sheet.

 

[speedy]

Being 17th in rushing yards would be a flop for the #3 overall pick in the draft.

If he put up another 5-800 all purpose yards, he will hardly be a flop

 

[Cheesebeef]

lol you can’t do this but it’s what dopes always say when they’re out of facts

you were the guy castigating others for lack of football content and just attacking posters a couple weeks ago, right?

calling people dopes should definitely do wonders for conversation.

 

[kerouac9]

It's a team sport. Love will make the team better. Full stop.

How many yards is it worth if he stops a blitzes and prevents a sack??
Do we only give him credit for the 6 yards we didn't lose?
Or do we give him credit for the 35 yards made by the completion he protected?
How much credit does he get when Wilson or Marv get behind their guy because the defense is playing up tight to help prevent the run?

Team sport. Takes a gestalt viewpoint. Lots of ways Love can make the team better that dont necessarily jump off the stat sheet.

Cool so if we go 5-12 is Love part of a failure?

 

[kerouac9]

you were the guy castigating others for lack of football content and just attacking posters a couple weeks ago, right?

calling people dopes should definitely do wonders for conversation.

I called the comment dopey because it was. It’s the same thing as saying Trey Benson probably has a lot of gas in the tank and likely to have a longer career because he’s only had 92 NFL carries.

People make these types of “arguments” all the time when they don’t like the facts.

 

[oaken1]

Cool so if we go 5-12 is Love part of a failure?

Well yeah.
Team sport, Sport

 

[some dumb guy]

Well yeah.
Team sport, Sport

oaken1, let me ask a question: you've been here as long as most. I've brought up the "team" concept numerous times and then it dawned on me, does that deter the debate on the forum? Because there seems to be so many posts "debating" individual impact. Such as the JB went 1-11 comments. Just like the: Love better do great or else. His success is still going to be based on the play of the rest of the offense. And if that's the case, it makes sense even though it doesn't make sense. Just want to stay in the slow lane so I don't get run over.

 

[oaken1]

oaken1, let me ask a question: you've been here as long as most. I've brought up the "team" concept numerous times and then it dawned on me, does that deter the debate on the forum? Because there seems to be so many posts "debating" individual impact. Such as the JB went 1-11 comments. Just like the: Love better do great or else. His success is still going to be based on the play of the rest of the offense. And if that's the case, it makes sense even though it doesn't make sense. Just want to stay in the slow lane so I don't get run over.

It's simple. Understanding how each position on a team can affect the others is just beyond some people's understanding of football... and for others they won't acknowledge it because it's difficult to quantify.
You can't debate something and be "right" if you cannot quantify a result...and sadly, proving themselves "right" in a debate is more important to people on the internet than understanding the complexity in a sport they claim to love.

 

[oaken1]

oaken1, let me ask a question: you've been here as long as most. I've brought up the "team" concept numerous times and then it dawned on me, does that deter the debate on the forum? Because there seems to be so many posts "debating" individual impact. Such as the JB went 1-11 comments. Just like the: Love better do great or else. His success is still going to be based on the play of the rest of the offense. And if that's the case, it makes sense even though it doesn't make sense. Just want to stay in the slow lane so I don't get run over.

And an FYI...
I rarely debate. I prefer discussion.

I been divorced three times because I have zero patience for people that feel the need to argue everything....and that's all a debate is.
Plus why be married when I have 40 wives right here on asfn

 

[some dumb guy]

And an FYI...
I rarely debate. I prefer discussion.

I been divorced three times because I have zero patience for people that feel the need to argue everything....and that's all a debate is.
Plus why be married when I have 40 wives right here on asfn

Thanks for your response and I stand corrected; discussion is the appropriate word

And I feel sorry for you in case of a divorce from azfn...LOL

 

[oaken1]

Thanks for your response and I stand corrected; discussion is the appropriate word

And I feel sorry for you in case of a divorce from azfn...LOL

nah,...every once in a while asfn tells me, "I need some space"...and they make me go away for a weekend...it has never worked out poorly, lol.

 

[Chopper0080]

Maybe you should be carping more about us sitting on the 40 million in cap space then finding reasons why you're not going to like the pick unless Love plays like a superstar right out of the gate.

man... I get bashing Monty unmercifully, but correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember you destroying Marvin Harrison for not living up to his draft capital in any of the seasons he's played so far. In fact, most of the time, you make excuse after excuse after excuse for him.

It's the difference between taking a non-premium position vs a premium position. MHJ is actually playing up to his contract level even if he isn't playing up to his draft position.

I saved my cap criticism to the defense thread. Trying not to air every grievance in every thread.

 

[Chopper0080]

What difference does it make if the Cards get 47.5% of scrimmage yards from Love, 42.5% from Allgeier, and 10% from Conner/Benson, similar to the Lions with Gibbs, Montgomery et al. when they went 12-5 in 2023; or if they hit your magic range with 66.5% from Love, 32.8% from Allgeier, and 0.7% from Conner/Benson as the Lions did when they went 9-7 in 2025?

The contracts for Love, Allgeier, and the rest will pay them what they pay them regardless. The yards are going to add up regardless. So who cares about "wasting a year" for Love? If anything, it seems better to "save a year" of his short career for 2027 and beyond, when the Cardinals will have a better possibility of being competitive. What benefit is there to "running this dude into the ground" this year?!?

The only "benefit" of Love getting 65%-75% usage is that Monty can say, "he was a great pick and worth what we're paying him!" Who cares? The Cardinals picked him and they're going to pay him regardless.

That's like saying we don't care about MHJ getting better as long as McBride and Wilson are producing and as long as the pass game is producing. IMO, a silly argument.

 

[Chopper0080]

It's a team sport. Love will make the team better. Full stop.

How many yards is it worth if he stops a blitzes and prevents a sack??
Do we only give him credit for the 6 yards we didn't lose?
Or do we give him credit for the 35 yards made by the completion he protected?
How much credit does he get when Wilson or Marv get behind their guy because the defense is playing up tight to help prevent the run?

Team sport. Takes a gestalt viewpoint. Lots of ways Love can make the team better that dont necessarily jump off the stat sheet.

Already making excuses for not meeting expectations is wild.

 

[oaken1]

Already making excuses for not meeting expectations is wild.

No.
Just an actual rational perspective on the workings of a team.
I have already stated that I expect 1400 ground yards from Love...that's a quantifiable expectation

 

[Shane]

No.
Just an actual rational perspective on the workings of a team.
I have already stated that I expect 1400 ground yards from Love...that's a quantifiable expectation

Can’t do that when he will blow out his calf the week before training camp.

 

[oaken1]

Can’t do that when he will blow out his calf the week before training camp.

Damn it Shaaaaane!

 

[gimpy]

Can’t do that when he will blow out his calf the week before training camp.

 

[Stout]

Can’t do that when he will blow out his calf the week before training camp.

Your dead.

 

[daves]

Disagree. If he isn't a 65%-75% usage guy out of the gate, it wasting a year for a player at a position where you are not getting any positional savings, and at a position which has an inherently shorter lifespan. Just need to go all gas, no brakes and run this dude into the ground.

What difference does it make if the Cards get 47.5% of scrimmage yards from Love, 42.5% from Allgeier, and 10% from Conner/Benson, similar to the Lions with Gibbs, Montgomery et al. when they went 12-5 in 2023; or if they hit your magic range with 66.5% from Love, 32.8% from Allgeier, and 0.7% from Conner/Benson as the Lions did when they went 9-7 in 2025?

That's like saying we don't care about MHJ getting better as long as McBride and Wilson are producing and as long as the pass game is producing. IMO, a silly argument.

Again, this is in the context of Love following Gibbs' career trajectory. The Lions went to the playoffs in 2023 with Gibbs producing 47.5% of the scrimmage yards from their RB crew, which produced the 5th most rushing yards in the league. They won three fewer games and missed the playoffs in 2025 when Gibbs had 66.5% of the scrimmage yards from their RB crew and their running game ranked 14th.

If Love shows the same kind of promise as Gibbs did in his rookie season, I'd rather have the Cards have a top-5 running game than a 14th ranked running game, even if that means Allgeier is playing great eating into Love's production. I don't see the inherent value in Love having 65-75% of the carries and running him "into the ground" just for the sake of saying that the Cardinals "got positional savings". The money and draft picks are sunk costs at this point and if Love turns out to have the exact first three years as Gibbs, who cares about the rest? Will you really be upset if the Cards' RB room has the same kind of year as the Lions' RB room in 2023?

As for MHJ, he's clearly NOT on the career path expected of a guy drafted #4, so I would definitely like to see him get better. If the Cards somehow had a top-5 passing game with Harrison getting fewer yards than Wilson and McBride, it wouldn't be such a big deal - but in reality, Harrison's continued lack of development would prevent them from having a top-5 passing game, so it IS a problem. By contrast, Gibbs did not hold back the Lions from having a top-5 running game in 2023.

 

[BulldogCard]

What will he do if the Cardinals actually get good. He'll have nothing to complain about.

 

[some dumb guy]

What will he do if the Cardinals actually get good. He'll have nothing to complain about.

Don't worry about that, when the cards do good this board turns into the Playboy Mansion but without the bunnys....wait, that's not a good analogy...LOL

 

[daves]

The contracts for Love, Allgeier, and the rest will pay them what they pay them regardless. The yards are going to add up regardless. So who cares about "wasting a year" for Love? If anything, it seems better to "save a year" of his short career for 2027 and beyond, when the Cardinals will have a better possibility of being competitive. What benefit is there to "running this dude into the ground" this year?!?

lol you can’t do this but it’s what dopes always say when they’re out of facts

Nice post - thanks for bringing these facts to the discussion!

I never advocated for deliberately restricting Love's workload - I said I don't see the point of "running him into the ground" or giving him an arbitrary 75% of the workload "just because". I keep using Jahmyr Gibbs' rookie season as an exemplar of a workload that would be completely satisfactory, IF Love shows the same kind of promise that Gibbs did in 2023.

Here are some facts for you:

(a) Self-evidently, every touch a player gets incrementally adds to his injury risk.

(b) 75% of the average team's 465-carry rushing workload, plus around 50 catches, would get Love dangerously close to the "Curse of 370" and 400 total touch RB workload that is well known to result in increased chance of injury, reduced performance, and shortened careers as has been well documented by Football Outsiders' Aaron Schatz.

Ergo, you CAN enhance the likelihood of an RB having success in the future by NOT "running him into the ground".

 

[Chopper0080]

Again, this is in the context of Love following Gibbs' career trajectory. The Lions went to the playoffs in 2023 with Gibbs producing 47.5% of the scrimmage yards from their RB crew, which produced the 5th most rushing yards in the league. They won three fewer games and missed the playoffs in 2025 when Gibbs had 66.5% of the scrimmage yards from their RB crew and their running game ranked 14th.

If Love shows the same kind of promise as Gibbs did in his rookie season, I'd rather have the Cards have a top-5 running game than a 14th ranked running game, even if that means Allgeier is playing great eating into Love's production. I don't see the inherent value in Love having 65-75% of the carries and running him "into the ground" just for the sake of saying that the Cardinals "got positional savings". The money and draft picks are sunk costs at this point and if Love turns out to have the exact first three years as Gibbs, who cares about the rest? Will you really be upset if the Cards' RB room has the same kind of year as the Lions' RB room in 2023?

As for MHJ, he's clearly NOT on the career path expected of a guy drafted #4, so I would definitely like to see him get better. If the Cards somehow had a top-5 passing game with Harrison getting fewer yards than Wilson and McBride, it wouldn't be such a big deal - but in reality, Harrison's continued lack of development would prevent them from having a top-5 passing game, so it IS a problem. By contrast, Gibbs did not hold back the Lions from having a top-5 running game in 2023.

IMO if Allgeier is a guy who can produce at that level, it demonstrates poor scouting and a waste of the #3 pick. We can disagree but there is a vast difference between using the 3rd pick in the draft on a rotation player at a non-premium position than using the 12th pick overall. Especially when you already signed a player in FA to fill that role. I'm not saying that this will happen but if it does, the Cardinals wasted an opportunity to improve the roster overall and instead just added depth at a non premium position. Just my opinion on roster building.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

IMO if Allgeier is a guy who can produce at that level, it demonstrates poor scouting and a waste of the #3 pick. We can disagree but there is a vast difference between using the 3rd pick in the draft on a rotation player at a non-premium position than using the 12th pick overall. Especially when you already signed a player in FA to fill that role. I'm not saying that this will happen but if it does, the Cardinals wasted an opportunity to improve the roster overall and instead just added depth at a non premium position. Just my opinion on roster building.

allgeier is only on a 2 year contract - conner won't even be around in 2 years -

love is here for 4 years - we just extended mcbride for 4 years and we'll likely extend wilson this year - no clue how long but these 3 guys are the future - being strong at all 3 of these critical positions for the foreseeable future is good business by monti imo

mcbride not being the only weapon is everything - the emergence of wilson unlocked mcbride - it was supposed to be mhj but idc - point is we needed a bad ass rb to go with our bad ass tight end and bad ass wide receiver for the next 4 years - we got that