Ossenfort and Free Agency

[kerouac9]

You don't build hoping but you should expect some type of jump from your rookie players the next year.

That's fair. I think it's fair to expect BJ Ojulari to go from being a nearly useless three-sack player to the seven-sack per season guy he was projected to be.

I think it's fair to expect your disappointing players to get closer to the projection you had for them in their second season. Expecting them to exceed your projections is a different story, though.

None of the players selected in the 2023 NFL draft had superstar projections.

 

[kerouac9]

At the start of the year how many of you saw Houston in the playoffs?

I did.

Look for us to sign front 7 players that solidify the front 7 of this defense.

Who? There are many lists of pending free agents online. If you're just hoping that we'll continue to identify unknown contributors like Froholdt and White (two guys who were very familiar to the incoming coaching staff), that's not a high-percentage strategy. Especially considering how the Zach Pascal and Denis Daley acquisitions worked out under a similar rubric.

 

[Harry]

Im tossed up... MHJ, Alt...solid prospects and very likely all pro's in the making...

but in my searching I looked a lot at Amarius Mims and Brenden Rice... Im fairly sure Mims will be one of the best OT;s in the NFL in 3 or 4 years... but there will be growing pains...he is however an option should we decide to move PJJ to the left...Mims could be had with the Texans pick or maybe even 35....but I kinda wanted Dline with that Texans pick..

Brenden Rice...dude is a pure stud..100 percent thoroughbred WR...and if he had his older brothers name everyone would be talking about him as a first round pick. ....But Brenden Rice doesnt compete for clicks with Marvin Harrison JR as well as Jerry Rice JR would....kid runs highly polished routes, has great game speed..hit 21.7 mph on the gps this season..MHJ hit 22.2 BTW.... Rice has quick hands, catches with his fingers,...and he is a beast to bring down...reminds me of Anquan with the ball in his hands....Right now Rice is projected 3rd round...but he is going to move up.....

they say never fall in love with prospects... but TBH I wouldnt be mad if our first three picks were MHJ, Mims, Rice...then grab a DT, RB, OG in the third...and CB, DT, ILB with the rest of our picks. Finish out the offense in the draft and use our cap space on Defense...with some young guys to develop.

Double dipping on WR early sounds excessive... but we been trying to finish the room for a long time. This would finish it with two guys that are big, fast, and precise....will cause champagne problems later probably...but thats worlds better than having nobody in the pattern that our QB trusts enough to throw to

Think of it this way, if the Cards got both Harrison & Rice they’d have the sons of 2 of the greatest Receivers ever.

 

[Harry]

But, but, we were assured by all these posters that we could just get the same players--literally, by some posters--or the same types of players--a year later. You mean that isn't always possible? *clutches pearls* Well, I never!

Signing them last year would have paid them for a non-playoff year and maybe have caused the Cards to win a game or two that would lower their draft picks.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I was addressing the certain posters (not you) who scoffed last year because every FA period is totally the same and we can just do the same business "next year." Which is clearly false, and which they will clearly try to change the narrative on.

Gotcha.

I still 100% believe that Monti was hedging his bet that Murray could come back and be the same player. That's the only explanation that makes a ton of sense.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Think of it this way, if the Cards got both Harrison & Rice they’d have the sons of 2 of the greatest Receivers ever.

Fitzgerald son isn't in this draft.

 

[Stout]

How do you know that one or more of our rookies won't develop into a star player in year 2 or 3 in league? Last year no one thought that Trey McBride was going to develop into a player with star potential in year 2. Isn't it possible that Michael Wilson, PJJ, Garrett Williams, Ojulari, or others develop into star players in year 2 or 3 in the league?

I'm not saying they won't develop into them. We need studs immediately, not developmentally, although we also need those. I was too vague and should have been clearer there.

 

[Stout]

Signing them last year would have paid them for a non-playoff year and maybe have caused the Cards to win a game or two that would lower their draft picks.

Sure, but we can't pretend that that strategy doesn't set the rebuild back some.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'm not saying they won't develop into them. We need studs immediately, not developmentally, although we also need those. I was too vague and should have been clearer there.

I think the Cardinals need two "stars" on defense to get a lot better. I think Ojulari, Williams, and Stills can develop into good contributors on a playoff team. I also think that Kyzir White can be a plus LB.

The Cardinals severely lacked a few defensive playmakers that offenses had to account for.

 

[kerouac9]

I think the Cardinals need two "stars" on defense to get a lot better. I think Ojulari, Williams, and Stills can develop into good contributors on a playoff team. I also think that Kyzir White can be a plus LB.

The Cardinals severely lacked a few defensive playmakers that offenses had to account for.

That's necessary but not sufficient. The Cards defense probably needs five starting-quality players, two of which are star-quality or better.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I'm not saying they won't develop into them. We need studs immediately, not developmentally, although we also need those. I was too vague and should have been clearer there.

I don't think you NEED to sign high price FAs or "Stars". IMO the Cardinals need to bring in capable FAs who fit the system and buy into the culture. Obviously the Cardinals need several starters and depth guys added this offseason via FA in addition to the players that they add through the draft.

If you look at the FAs that the Texans brought in last season, there weren't any BIG name High Price FAs from the top 10 FA lists that they brought in. They were mostly Middle tier guys who fit in and filled a roll.

Top 101 NFL free agents of 2023: Melvin Ingram, Dalton Risner among best available

Dalton Shultz was the highest ranked FA that they signed (#17 on NFL.coms list of 2023 FAs) for $6.2M on a 1 year deal
Shaquill Griffin (#33 on NFL.coms list of 2023 FAs) for $3.5M on a 1 year deal
Jimmy Ward (#38 on NFL.coms list of 2023 FAs) for $12M over 2 years
Sheldon Rankins (#81 on NFL.coms list of 2023 FAs) for $9M on a 1 year deal
Devon Singletary (#85 on NFL.coms list of 2023 FAs) for $3.1M on a 1 year deal
Denzel Perryman (#89 on NFL.coms list of 2023 FAs) for $2.2M on a 1 year deal

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don't think you NEED to sign high price FAs or "Stars". IMO the Cardinals need to bring in capable FAs who fit the system and buy into the culture. Obviously the Cardinals need several starters and depth guys added this offseason via FA in addition to the players that they add through the draft.

If you look at the FAs that the Texans brought in last season, there weren't any BIG name High Price FAs from the top 10 FA lists that they brought in. They were mostly Middle tier guys who fit in and filled a roll.

Top 101 NFL free agents of 2023: Melvin Ingram, Dalton Risner among best available

Dalton Shultz was the highest ranked FA that they signed (#17 on NFL.coms list of 2023 FAs) for $6.2M on a 1 year deal
Shaquill Griffin (#33 on NFL.coms list of 2023 FAs) for $3.5M on a 1 year deal
Jimmy Ward (#38 on NFL.coms list of 2023 FAs) for $12M over 2 years
Sheldon Rankins (#81 on NFL.coms list of 2023 FAs) for $9M on a 1 year deal
Devon Singletary (#85 on NFL.coms list of 2023 FAs) for $3.1M on a 1 year deal
Denzel Perryman (#89 on NFL.coms list of 2023 FAs) for $2.2M on a 1 year deal

This would be my approach. Sign one big star and a bunch of mid tier guys to fill holes.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't think you NEED to sign high price FAs or "Stars". IMO the Cardinals need to bring in capable FAs who fit the system and buy into the culture. Obviously the Cardinals need several starters and depth guys added this offseason via FA in addition to the players that they add through the draft.

If you look at the FAs that the Texans brought in last season, there weren't any BIG name High Price FAs from the top 10 FA lists that they brought in. They were mostly Middle tier guys who fit in and filled a roll.

Is this the model we want to follow, though? Yes, the Texans overperformed and made the playoffs, but if Joe Flacco and the Cleveland Browns bounce them by 20 points at home, what did you learn?

Houston both took advantage of a terrible division and easy schedule to make the playoffs and is a promising team for the future. They went 7-3 in games decided by seven points or fewer. Nico Collins had 1300 yards and 8 TDs after not crossing 500 yards his first two years in the league.

They also already have stars on their defense. Derek Stingley allowed an absurd 41.3 QB rating in coverage and had five interceptions over eleven games. Jonathan Greenard had 12.5 sacks to go with Will Anderson's seven sacks and 22 QB hits (!!!!). Steven Nelson had 12 passes defensed and four INTs.

Will it last? Maybe. Stroud will get better and they'll probably add more firepower to the offense with the draft picks they have this offseason. But the foundation was in place built from three consecutive seasons of being terrible and using high picks to draft talents who turned into stars.

I'd bet against Houston returning to the playoffs next year.

We don't have anyone in our front seven better than Maliek Collins.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Is this the model we want to follow, though? Yes, the Texans overperformed and made the playoffs, but if Joe Flacco and the Cleveland Browns bounce them by 20 points at home, what did you learn?

Not saying that it is the model that the Cardinals will or should follow. Just pointing out that there are multiple ways to build a playoff team.

 

[Chopper0080]

Signing them last year would have paid them for a non-playoff year and maybe have caused the Cards to win a game or two that would lower their draft picks.

Again, the logic is what it is, but the impact of that decision (right or wrong) is that the Cardinals have an extremely bare cupboard on defense and limited players in FA to compete for. While also acknowledging the draft is a crap shoot.

I think that times people take the comment that "this situation is the impact of sitting out FA the prior year" as a knock on Monti's decision. We all know why he made it. However, that doesn't change that he has a more narrow window to attempt to add needed players specific areas of need, especially on the defense.

 

[Chopper0080]

It is just acknowledging that the Cardinals may leave FA with Fletcher Cox and Calais Campbell as two of our main front 7 additions, and then the draft with either a 2nd or 3rd round front 7 player as well if Monti strikes out trying to lure one of the top front 7 FA class players to AZ.

 

[oaken1]

Think of it this way, if the Cards got both Harrison & Rice they’d have the sons of 2 of the greatest Receivers ever.

LMAO...exactly Harry..."The sons of"
but I do think they are both great prospects

 

[slanidrac16]

I did.


Who? There are many lists of pending free agents online. If you're just hoping that we'll continue to identify unknown contributors like Froholdt and White (two guys who were very familiar to the incoming coaching staff), that's not a high-percentage strategy. Especially considering how the Zach Pascal and Denis Daley acquisitions worked out under a similar rubric.

You’re the only one then because everyone else was counting our chickens with two top 10 picks in the draft.
We’ll have to see who’s available after franchise tags. Not sure who you rank and where but don’t expect to sign Chris Jones.

 

[slanidrac16]

Is this the model we want to follow, though? Yes, the Texans overperformed and made the playoffs, but if Joe Flacco and the Cleveland Browns bounce them by 20 points at home, what did you learn?

You’re kidding right? So if we make the playoffs next year but lose in the first round you will question “ what did we learn”?

 

[kerouac9]

You’re kidding right? So if we make the playoffs next year but lose in the first round you will question “ what did we learn”?

We went to the playoffs two years ago and got bounced and the next two seasons we won four games each. The Giants were in the playoffs last year; this year they won six games. The Chargers were getting ready for the playoffs 12 months ago and then their coach got bounced after 14 games.

What did these teams win from their one-and-done playoff experiences?

 

[slanidrac16]

We went to the playoffs two years ago and got bounced and the next two seasons we won four games each. The Giants were in the playoffs last year; this year they won six games. The Chargers were getting ready for the playoffs 12 months ago and then their coach got bounced after 14 games.

What did these teams win from their one-and-done playoff experiences?

In another post you claim you knew the Texans were going to make this year. They must have done something you like to believe they were going to be this good.
Then in another post you doubt the Texans will make the playoffs next year? Because why?

 

[kerouac9]

In another post you claim you knew the Texans were going to make this year. They must have done something you like to believe they were going to be this good.
Then in another post you doubt the Texans will make the playoffs next year? Because why?

I was skeptical that the Texans were going to be terrible because I liked their coach and they'd gotten a ton of talent together over the past three drafts and free agency periods. I was pushing people to say what would be a disappointing draft pick early in the process because I suspected they'd be better than people anticipated. I kind of expected them to be where the Colts ended up.

That said, they won the division this year with a lot of luck. That banner is gonna hang in their stadium forever. They played their division (which was bad), the NFC South (which was worse), and the AFC North (which they went 2-2 against). I'd bet against them making the playoffs because ~seven teams fail to make it back each year, and the team that played the 27th-hardest schedule in the NFL seems like a good candidate.

 

[slanidrac16]

I was skeptical that the Texans were going to be terrible because I liked their coach and they'd gotten a ton of talent together over the past three drafts and free agency periods. I was pushing people to say what would be a disappointing draft pick early in the process because I suspected they'd be better than people anticipated. I kind of expected them to be where the Colts ended up.

That said, they won the division this year with a lot of luck. That banner is gonna hang in their stadium forever. They played their division (which was bad), the NFC South (which was worse), and the AFC North (which they went 2-2 against). I'd bet against them making the playoffs because ~seven teams fail to make it back each year, and the team that played the 27th-hardest schedule in the NFL seems like a good candidate.

I can understand that. I was confusing your statement with how they rebuilt wasn’t the right way. Sorry.
You are so right that teams that made it this year will not make it next year. Sometimes we just don’t analyze just why aside from Injuries and schedules.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Not on 2-year deals. We need more stability on the roster than that. Which is why White should be extended now.

Agreed...I meant the sentiment of players who may not be as well known, but are ready to step up their game.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

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