Should Ayton be Traded?

[AzStevenCal]

One only has so many chances to cement one’s legacy and the great ones would never let spats interfere with greatness

Ayton will never be more than what he is now a middle of the road role player.

I have no idea what Ayton is. I know what he's been on occasion. But he has too many strong games to call him a weak player and too many weak games to call him a strong player. He's rarely middle of the road but I guess that works if you want to average out his peaks and valleys.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Suns are not moving Ayton now. I get why Gambo was saying the Suns were leaning towards keeping Ayton. After seeing the acquisitions the Suns have made? To me it’s more obvious then ever the Suns were building a roster that didn’t have to depend on Ayton offensively. They just need him to keep teams honest and it allow Ayton to focus on the defensive end and the boards. It basically gives Ayton a ton less responsibility. Hopefully, that makes a difference but the Suns in some ways can afford to keep him now.

Ayton doesn't have less responsibility, he has more. Defensively he needs to be a true rim protector who is engaged and he's never shown that capability. I don't think anyone cares whether he gets 8 points or 20, the problem lies when he only has 3 rebounds instead of 13.

When we added Beal we no longer needed Ayton to be an offensive force. He just needs to grab some offensive boards and get put backs.

We can all hope the light turns on for Ayton but if it doesn't, it won't be easy to trade him for anything worthwhile. The only reason his value hasn't sunk is the idea Vogel, or another coach, will get more from him. Once that ship sails, we'll be up a creek without a paddle. We need to move him still, hopefully for a big and some assets.

I'd like to see the Suns work their way into the Dame trade to bring in something because there will be a lot of moving parts and salaries moved when that happens. I'm not saying we'll get Lillard, just work our way into the larger deal and sending Ayton somewhere.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ayton doesn't have less responsibility, he has more. Defensively he needs to be a true rim protector who is engaged and he's never shown that capability. I don't think anyone cares whether he gets 8 points or 20, the problem lies when he only has 3 rebounds instead of 13.

When we added Beal we no longer needed Ayton to be an offensive force. He just needs to grab some offensive boards and get put backs.

We can all hope the light turns on for Ayton but if it doesn't, it won't be easy to trade him for anything worthwhile. The only reason his value hasn't sunk is the idea Vogel, or another coach, will get more from him. Once that ship sails, we'll be up a creek without a paddle. We need to move him still, hopefully for a big and some assets.

I'd like to see the Suns work their way into the Dame trade to bring in something because there will be a lot of moving parts and salaries moved when that happens. I'm not saying we'll get Lillard, just work our way into the larger deal and sending Ayton somewhere.

No he has less. Before the Suns were seemingly trying to get him to be the 3rd scoring option while still maintaining him being a defensive anchor. I think we got a taste of that being too much for Ayton last season. Last season was the 1st season where he didn’t show a steady improvement curve. He was benched multiple times during games. That isn’t happening on this team which means his focus is going to be on the other end again. They are not going to ask him to do both and just enough to keep teams honest or if jumpers are not falling. I think that impacted his defense last year asking him to do both. That’s what I mean by less.

 

[Yuma]

No he has less. Before the Suns were seemingly trying to get him to be the 3rd scoring option while still maintaining him being a defensive anchor. I think we got a taste of that being too much for Ayton last season. Last season was the 1st season where he didn’t show a steady improvement curve. He was benched multiple times during games. That isn’t happening on this team which means his focus is going to be on the other end again. They are not going to ask him to do both and just enough to keep teams honest or if jumpers are not falling. I think that impacted his defense last year asking him to do both. That’s what I mean by less.

AND he actually got more touches last season than 2021! His efficiency went down with more touches. I am coming around to thinking less is more with him on offense. First thing I am looking for this next season for Ayton is schematic. Vogel tends to keep his centers towards the basket and not running out to defend the three point line. I think that would make a HUGE difference for DA defensively. The Suns wanted him to guard the three point line, and then he was never in position to rebound, or get those weak side blocks. If Vogel lets him stay closer to the rim, I am in on keeping him.

 

[Hoop Head]

Saw this on Reddit, lets get it done!

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[JCSunsfan]

Ayton sees himself differently that the player we need him to be. If he cannot change that mindset, he has to be traded.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ayton sees himself differently that the player we need him to be. If he cannot change that mindset, he has to be traded.

Hi Ayton, let me introduce you to reality. Reality, meet DeAndre. If you two can't get along one of you will have to go.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm for giving Ayton a fair opportunity under Frank Vogel. However, if the Suns don't trade Ayton by next summer, it's going to be hard for the Suns to keep surrounding their core players with veteran minimum free agents year after year.

The Suns being without the Exceptions will eventually take its toll.

The Suns highest four salaries are Durant, Beal, Booker and Ayton. The next lowest salary is Cam Payne (expiring contract) at $6.5 million. There is not a lot to trade, although the Suns do have a first round pick in the 2024 draft.

It's going to take a while for the Suns to build a base through the draft, although Toumani Camara is a start.

 

[Raindog]

The direction salaries have been heading given this off-season, Ayton's contract is going to be very tradeable in the near future unless something happens where he literally cannot play (injury, etc.)

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I'm for giving Ayton a fair opportunity under Frank Vogel. However, if the Suns don't trade Ayton by next summer, it's going to be hard for the Suns to keep surrounding their core players with veteran minimum free agents year after year.

The Suns being without the Exceptions will eventually take its toll.

The Suns highest four salaries are Durant, Beal, Booker and Ayton. The next lowest salary is Cam Payne (expiring contract) at $6.5 million. There is not a lot to trade, although the Suns do have a first round pick in the 2024 draft.

It's going to take a while for the Suns to build a base through the draft, although Toumani Camara is a start.

Don't agree. There will always be players that want a chance to play for a contender to boost their stock. Teams simply aren't throwing out big money to middling free agents for the most part and this means that there will always be some of them that will sign on for a 1 year minimum.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Everybody already knows how I feel about DeAndre The Saboteur Ayton so I'm trying to stand behind the backboard and take a few plays off in between

 

[Mainstreet]

Don't agree. There will always be players that want a chance to play for a contender to boost their stock. Teams simply aren't throwing out big money to middling free agents for the most part and this means that there will always be some of them that will sign on for a 1 year minimum.

Of course, the Suns had excellent fortune this past off season where everything fell into place.

It may not always work out this way. The Suns don't have bird rights to these vet minimum players. Not having the Exceptions or contracts that are easier trade and limited draft picks could limit the Suns going forward.

I like how the Lakers have structured the contracts of some of their players, so they are more tradable. I think this is a big reason the Lakers re-signed D'Angelo Russell.

It's going to be hard for the Suns to maintain four players on large contracts and build teams around them consistently.

 

[Mainstreet]

Everybody already knows how I feel about DeAndre The Saboteur Ayton so I'm trying to stand behind the backboard and take a few plays off in between

If you look around behind the backboard, you might find company. Now the two of you make friends.

 

[Covert Rain]

Of course, the Suns had excellent fortune this past off season where everything fell into place.

It may not always work out this way. The Suns don't have bird rights to these vet minimum players. Not having the Exceptions or contracts that are easier trade and limited draft picks could limit the Suns going forward.

I like how the Lakers have structured the contracts of some of their players, so they are more tradable. I think this is a big reason the Lakers re-signed D'Angelo Russell.

It's going to be hard for the Suns to maintain four players on large contracts and build teams around them consistently.

Players are available like this every season. What is going to draw these players is the owner, how the franchise is run and if they keep winning. As long as this team had marquee players they will be in the running for players. I have no reason to doubt Ishbia.

 

[SeattleCardinal]

Don't agree. There will always be players that want a chance to play for a contender to boost their stock. Teams simply aren't throwing out big money to middling free agents for the most part and this means that there will always be some of them that will sign on for a 1 year minimum.

Hopefully the window remains open for a while and the Suns can continue to be contenders. The last few years of franchise relevance have been nice!

 

[Sparky16]

Ayton doesn't have less responsibility, he has more. Defensively he needs to be a true rim protector who is engaged and he's never shown that capability. I don't think anyone cares whether he gets 8 points or 20, the problem lies when he only has 3 rebounds instead of 13.

When we added Beal we no longer needed Ayton to be an offensive force. He just needs to grab some offensive boards and get put backs.

We can all hope the light turns on for Ayton but if it doesn't, it won't be easy to trade him for anything worthwhile. The only reason his value hasn't sunk is the idea Vogel, or another coach, will get more from him. Once that ship sails, we'll be up a creek without a paddle. We need to move him still, hopefully for a big and some assets.

I'd like to see the Suns work their way into the Dame trade to bring in something because there will be a lot of moving parts and salaries moved when that happens. I'm not saying we'll get Lillard, just work our way into the larger deal and sending Ayton somewhere.

Can we do a 3 way where Dame goes to BKN and Bridges comes to Phx?

 

[Germz249]

Can we do a 3 way where Dame goes to BKN and Bridges comes to Phx?

Who do we have at center?

 

[Sparky16]

Who do we have at center?

someone who knows his role, instead of the soft "entertainer". If people think DA is going to be happy getting 5 shots a game and think he will flip a switch and be a rebounding rim protector is laughable

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Of course, the Suns had excellent fortune this past off season where everything fell into place.

It may not always work out this way. The Suns don't have bird rights to these vet minimum players. Not having the Exceptions or contracts that are easier trade and limited draft picks could limit the Suns going forward.

I like how the Lakers have structured the contracts of some of their players, so they are more tradable. I think this is a big reason the Lakers re-signed D'Angelo Russell.

It's going to be hard for the Suns to maintain four players on large contracts and build teams around them consistently.

Looks like the sheen of this offseason has worn off already. Doom and gloom and we haven’t even played a game in next season yet. So be it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Looks like the sheen of this offseason has worn off already. Doom and gloom and we haven’t even played a game in next season yet. So be it.

I can only chuckle at the fact that when this franchise was actually in its darkest hour, you and me were repeatedly slammed for being pessimists/not fans by the some of the same people who now choose to mostly dwell on the bleakest scenarios for the franchise when the Suns seem to be shining at their brightest.

 

[Germz249]

someone who knows his role, instead of the soft "entertainer". If people think DA is going to be happy getting 5 shots a game and think he will flip a switch and be a rebounding rim protector is laughable

Who is this someone? We keep talking about how we need to get rid of Ayton but who do you replace him with? There is no one out there in free agency who is better than him. Teams with players at that position who is better than him wouldn’t want to trade us. Plus we don't have the assets to make a trade.

 

[Muggz]

Who is this someone? We keep talking about how we need to get rid of Ayton but who do you replace him with? There is no one out there in free agency who is better than him. Teams with players at that position who is better than him wouldn’t want to trade us. Plus we don't have the assets to make a trade.

Nothing we could get back will be "better" than DA but we could get a dude that gets 85% of DAs numbers on a vet min, more or less.
I kind of want to see what happens if he stays but I already know what he's about.
At least build him up if he stays so he's worth more.

 

[Joe Mama]

Of course, the Suns had excellent fortune this past off season where everything fell into place.

It may not always work out this way. The Suns don't have bird rights to these vet minimum players. Not having the Exceptions or contracts that are easier trade and limited draft picks could limit the Suns going forward.

I like how the Lakers have structured the contracts of some of their players, so they are more tradable. I think this is a big reason the Lakers re-signed D'Angelo Russell.

It's going to be hard for the Suns to maintain four players on large contracts and build teams around them consistently.

The Lakers will always be able to get players to sign more reasonable deals. The players want to Live in Southern California, Play for the NBA 's favorite team which is always on National TV, and I assume the endorsement deals are more lucrative and plentiful there. Yes, we got several players who could have signed up for more elsewhere on veteran minimum deals, but the Lakers seemingly resigned all of their free agents on very team friendly deals, specially compared to some of the money that smaller market teams threw out there to very mediocre players. Actually it wasn't even smaller market… Chicago.

While I don't necessarily agree with the idea of that the Lakers are the primary contender for Denver I do think they had the best free agency so far. I like what they added, but more importantly they reassigned their own guys to reasonable, movable deals. It kills me that they've done such a great job digging themselves out of that obviously stupid Westbrook trade.

Joe

 

[Mainstreet]

The Lakers will always be able to get players to sign more reasonable deals. The players want to Live in Southern California, Play for the NBA 's favorite team which is always on National TV, and I assume the endorsement deals are more lucrative and plentiful there. Yes, we got several players who could have signed up for more elsewhere on veteran minimum deals, but the Lakers seemingly resigned all of their free agents on very team friendly deals, specially compared to some of the money that smaller market teams threw out there to very mediocre players. Actually it wasn't even smaller market… Chicago.

While I don't necessarily agree with the idea of that the Lakers are the primary contender for Denver I do think they had the best free agency so far. I like what they added, but more importantly they reassigned their own guys to reasonable, movable deals. It kills me that they've done such a great job digging themselves out of that obviously stupid Westbrook trade.

Joe

We agree, the Lakers will always be able to attract quality players on reasonable contracts.

However, if you look at their roster, they are only paying (2) players large contracts, $40,600 million plus: Lebron James and Anthony Davis. The rest of their salary is spread out among the other players with approximately only (3) minimum contracts. See link below.

Los Angeles Lakers 2023-24 Salary Cap

Los Angeles Lakers 2023-24 salary cap table, including breakdowns of salaries, bonuses, incentives, cap figures, dead money and more.

www.spotrac.com

Whereas, the Suns are paying (4) players with large contracts $32.5 million plus: Kevin Durant, Bradley Beal, Devin Booker and Deandre Ayton. Their other contracts (except Cam Payne at $6.5 million) are being paid at the minimum.

In other words, if my math is correct, the Suns are paying (11) players the minimum salary.

2024-25 Phoenix Suns Cap Table

The Phoenix Suns 2024-25 salary cap table, including salary cap table, including team cap space, player cap hits, incentives, & bonus info.

www.spotrac.com

I want to point out the Lakers roster is not as set as the Suns roster, but I think it illustrates my point.

 

[Carolinacacti]

So your point is that the Suns have 4 studs and LA has 2.