Suns Off-season Thread

[Finito]

Seriously, the only guy that JR lists in the clip that has a beef is Isaiah Thomas and his is because the Celtics doctors gave him bad advice and ruined his career. All those other dudes were flat out trash in their finals seasons.

The guy has zero self awareness. He seems to think the "Big 3" league is on par with the NBA.

I just looked it up Jr Smith played 17 years in the NBA and he claims he was blackballed? WTF.

 

[Phrazbit]

I just looked it up Jr Smith played 17 years in the NBA and he claims he was blackballed? WTF.

You should look at the clip, he is out of his mind. He claims that if you look at the 4th-15th man on each team in the league that he is better than every single one of those guys.

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Dude's last go in the league he shot 31% from the field and 9% from 3.

#blackballed

 

[Hoop Head]

Smith and the guys he mentioned might be better than some 11-15th players around the league but generally teams want veteran role players who don't expect playing time, will practice hard, be ready if needed, play within themselves, and can mentor younger talent or they're young with untapped potential. He checks none of those boxes.

JR is a me-first chucker who doesn't play defense, is completely over the hill, and has never been a good locker room guy. Even at his best he was just as likely to shoot you out of games than keep you in them.

I do like Crawford, IT, and Joe Johnson but Crawford and Johnson aged out and can't keep up with younger players anymore while IT hasn't been able to stay healthy or accept he can't do what he once did.

Notice how none of the guys he's mentioned have made a concerted effort to rehab their reputation and earn a spot in the league by working their way up in the G-League? That shows they don't have the humility to accept an end of the bench role if one presented itself. IT did last year but he's physically busted and I don't blame him, he wasn't blackballed.

 

[Proximo]

@Germz249

Here is a hypothetical trade that works.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2hqyr2od

Looks good to me.

 

[Mainstreet]

Looks good to me.

I'm guessing the Jazz would want at least one first round pick included.

 

[Big Al]

What is it going to take for us to get Bogdanovic and Clarkson from the Jazz? Will they be asking for the moon like Rudy and Mitchell?

If there is a discussion about players who got a raw deal, I think Joe Caldwell's name needs to be mentioned.

"CBS 60 Minutes" did a two part series on him. He played in the old ABA but never played in the NBA.

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Joe Caldwell is the grandfather of Pistons 6'11 Marvin Bagley a #2 overall pick in the draft of 2018 right after Ayton was chosen by the Suns. Bagley signed a good contract but just haven't lived up to his expected potental. And I believe it was said that Marvin lived with his grandfather in his grandfather's Tempe, Arizona home while him growing up. As he played on the same team with Ayton in high school for a year.
Joe Caldwell it seems to have caught financial hell for about twenty and then in 1995 the courts ruled that he was wrongfully suspended in 1974 from the ABA--three seasons after he jumped from the NBA for a multimillion-dollar contract. Another court has said Caldwell has a $6,600 monthly pension coming to him starting in 1995.
Each has their own opinions and respect other opinion as I may or may not agree with those opinions. And this is my opinion personally I believe Caldwell was blackmailed and that owner who became the commissioner is lying with that typical graphical error story as it was written out $6000 and six thousand per year played. $6000 for every year was written out in the contract. He should have corrected it at the time before it was signed if that was the case.
Now whether Joe Caldwell had any involvement with Marvin Barnes and causing a distraction is another story. Who knows?
Jumpin Joe Caldwell had skills. If the pension started in 1995 $6,600 a month pension is true then Joe Caldwell did better than the majority of ABA retirees. But his career was unfortunately shorten without him wanted it to turn out that way.

 

[Big Al]

I just looked it up Jr Smith played 17 years in the NBA and he claims he was blackballed? WTF.

JR Smith is just finished. He isn't worth signing after 17 years in the league. Not blackmailed just past his prime with no real ability to compete anymore. Game over

 

[Mainstreet]

Joe Caldwell is the grandfather of Pistons 6'11 Marvin Bagley a #2 overall pick in the draft of 2018 right after Ayton was chosen by the Suns. Bagley signed a good contract but just haven't lived up to his expected potental. And I believe it was said that Marvin lived with his grandfather in his grandfather's Tempe, Arizona home while him growing up. As he played on the same team with Ayton in high school for a year.
Joe Caldwell it seems to have caught financial hell for about twenty and then in 1995 the courts ruled that he was wrongfully suspended in 1974 from the ABA--three seasons after he jumped from the NBA for a multimillion-dollar contract. Another court has said Caldwell has a $6,600 monthly pension coming to him starting in 1995.
Each has their own opinions and respect other opinion as I may or may not agree with those opinions. And this is my opinion personally I believe Caldwell was blackmailed and that owner who became the commissioner is lying with that typical graphical error story as it was written out $6000 and six thousand per year played. $6000 for every year was written out in the contract. He should have corrected it at the time before it was signed if that was the case.
Now whether Joe Caldwell had any involvement with Marvin Barnes and causing a distraction is another story. Who knows?
Jumpin Joe Caldwell had skills. If the starting in 1995 $6,600 a month pension is true then Joe Caldwell did better than the majority of ABA retirees. But his career was unfortunately shorten without him wanted it to turn out that way.

IMO, Joe Caldwell got a raw deal. In a business transaction, the written version should always take precedence.

The pension paperwork clearly said $600 dollars per month, not $60. It was to be multiplied by the number of years he played.

Also, Joe could still play, but was not given an opportunity in the NBA.

My how times have changed with players wielding so much more power with a union and the CBA.

I think Joe helped create positive changes for the players who came afterwards.

 

[Big Al]

JR Smith is just finished. He isn't worth signing after 17 years in the league. Not blackmailed just past his prime with no real ability to compete anymore. Game over

I'm guessing the Jazz would want at least one first round pick included.

We lose two power forwards (Crowder a streak shooting 3 point so called power forward gathering in low rebounds & Dario a weak rebounding and limited lateral movement power forward)and a shooting guard (Shamet) that didn't really produce when needed last year for a 6'7" small forward Bogdnovic??? who can shoot but not create his own shot and a 6'3" shooting guard who can shoot but will chuck up a lot of shots(Clarkston) it would give us some needed scoring offensely but we desperately need a good size rebounding forward who can defend & at least be a threat offensively too. And do you want to get rake over the coals by Danny (The Heister )Ainge who undoubtedly will be asking for additional picks too? Ainge knows how take you to the cleaners in a trade.

 

[Mainstreet]

We lose two power forwards (Crowder a streak shooting 3 point so called power forward gathering in low rebounds & Dario a weak rebounding and limited lateral movement power forward)and a shooting guard (Shamet) that didn't really produce when needed last year for a 6'7" small forward Bogdnovic??? who can shoot but not create his own shot and a 6'3" shooting guard who can shoot but will chuck up a lot of shots(Clarkston) it would give us some needed scoring offensely but we desperately need a good size rebounding forward who can defend & at least be a threat offensively too. And do you want to get rake over the coals by Danny (The Heister )Ainge who undoubtedly will be asking for additional picks too? Ainge knows how take you to the cleaners in a trade.

I wouldn't do the above trade, only pointing out how hypothetically it could work.

The Suns do not gain a lot from a trade with the Jazz for either player, especially if they have to give up a first round pick.

 

[Proximo]

I'm guessing the Jazz would want at least one first round pick included.

Yeah, that goes without saying, and I would be fine with that.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, that goes without saying, and I would be fine with that.

The trade is too lateral for my liking.

 

[Finito]

The trade is too lateral for my liking.

Right. Your taking two flawed role players from another team for your two flawed role players and a pick

We need all our picks in case something comes along

 

[Muggz]

We lose two power forwards (Crowder a streak shooting 3 point so called power forward gathering in low rebounds & Dario a weak rebounding and limited lateral movement power forward)and a shooting guard (Shamet) that didn't really produce when needed last year for a 6'7" small forward Bogdnovic??? who can shoot but not create his own shot and a 6'3" shooting guard who can shoot but will chuck up a lot of shots(Clarkston) it would give us some needed scoring offensely but we desperately need a good size rebounding forward who can defend & at least be a threat offensively too. And do you want to get rake over the coals by Danny (The Heister )Ainge who undoubtedly will be asking for additional picks too? Ainge knows how take you to the cleaners in a trade.

Id be shocked if the front office would even call Utah back. I know theyre interested in Bojan but he makes too much money. (need to think about Cam J soon)
Face it guys we are gonna get raked over the coals with any trade. IMO our best option is Crowder/ShameT and whatever picks it takes for any semi competent PF we can get.
Love Bojan and have wanted him in the past, maybe coming in behind Crowder but those days are over, he honestly no longer fits, Cam and Bojan = a step back at PF position and a loss of rebounds when rebounds are what we need most.
We should take a hard look at Randal or worst case Toppin for someone to complement out tiny lil PF rotation of Cam and what Ish? Yes i dont like Randal either but hes got that mean streak i like to keep the Pat Bevs of the world in check.

Hell, DA wanted to play PF sign another placeholder/mascot/center like Javale or Frank and lets see what DA's got.

 

[Yuma]

I forgot Connie Hawkins. He is truly underappreciated. His stats when he decided to show up make him look as great or greater than Charles Barkley. A much more worthy subject for discussion than J.R. Smith.

That was at the end of his career too. Kinda like Satchell Paige in baseball. Would have liked to see them both younger in their leagues.

 

[Proximo]

The trade is too lateral for my liking.

I think we have very different opinions of the players the Suns are trading away.

I would prefer Shamet and Dario never play another minute for the Suns, so to me it is basically Crowder and a 1st for the 2 of them.

 

[Finito]

I think we have very different opinions of the players the Suns are trading away.

I would prefer Shamet and Dario never play another minute for the Suns, so to me it is basically Crowder and a 1st for the 2 of them.

What did Dario do.

 

[GatorAZ]

I think we have very different opinions of the players the Suns are trading away.

I would prefer Shamet and Dario never play another minute for the Suns, so to me it is basically Crowder and a 1st for the 2 of them.

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I would prefer Bojan/Clarkston over the Crowder/Saric/Payne combo but what extent of picks? Maybe one? If we could keep those 25’/27’/29’ package for an unexpected star acquisition that is best case. I don’t want to deal any assets that would convey (or peak) post the CP3-window.

 

[JCSunsfan]

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I would prefer Bojan/Clarkston over the Crowder/Saric/Payne combo but what extent of picks? Maybe one? If we could keep those 25’/27’/29’ package for an unexpected star acquisition that is best case. I don’t want to deal any assets that would convey (or peak) post the CP3-window.

Bojan over Crowder/Saric swaps sf for a pf and a pf/c. It leaves us a LOT smaller and with less defense. I get the offensive side of this. Clarkson for Payne is a no-brainer.

 

[Phrazbit]

Bojan over Crowder/Saric swaps sf for a pf and a pf/c. It leaves us a LOT smaller and with less defense. I get the offensive side of this. Clarkson for Payne is a no-brainer.

I'm not so sure. While Payne struggled with his own shot, he was an unquestionably willing playmaker. He averaged a hair under 5 assists per game, as a starter he averaged 9, and both with an elite assist to turnover ratio.

Clarkson is a gunner, not a point guard in the slightest. If he is hot he can win a game, if he isn't hot he is worthless... and not at all the kind of player you want running an offense.

I like Clarkson as a replacement for Shamet, not for Payne.

 

[Proximo]

It makes no sense to trade Payne over Saric or Shamet.

We have players that can replace them, but we don't really have anyone that can replace Payne. Also Payne has at least shown one good year of production whereas those two never have.

 

[Mainstreet]

Agree, the Suns need to add playmakers, not trade them. If the Suns traded for Clarkson, I'd still want to keep Payne. Clarkson is more of a combo guard. He doesn't average a lot of assists

There were some trade proposals where Payne was included in a trade for Durant. This may have been necessary to make salaries work rather than wanting to include him in a trade.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns really have no backup point guard beyond Cam Payne. This should make his value clear enough.

They occasionally play Shamet and Booker there but this is the exception, not the rule.

Even Elfrid Payton and Aaron Holiday are no longer on the roster. Monty wouldn't play Holiday during key stretches and Payton clearly was not the answer.

Hopefully Duane Washington Jr., who is on a two-way contract, earns some playing time at point guard but this remains to be seen.

 

[Mainstreet]

Devin Booker is potentially next in line to get a Nike his own shoe deal.

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[Mainstreet]

Dario Saric had 15 points and 12 rebounds in Croatia's win over Estonia.

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