Cardinals trade pick #23 for Hollywood Brown

[Stout]

You know it doesn’t work that way. He’s going to want to be paid before entering the last year of his contract just like everybody else.

You can keep arguing, but you're not going to argue me out of liking the trade. I'm going to stay positive about this draft for as long as I can

 

[SoonerLou]

For a lot less money.

For now and no 1st round pick.

I like Brown. However, its clear we should have just used Kirk in the right spot early on and we would have signed him early for a much cheaper deal.

If he looks like a clear upgrade then it's a major win though.

 

[daves]

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Nope. Nope. Making Brown say it is still not going to make "Bird City" happen.

...dave

 

[AZCB34]

Keim is a moron.

 

[SoonerLou]

The fact that Kyler trains with Kyler when they weren't on the same team means something IMO.

Kyler always loves Kyler so thats not a surprise

 

[oaken1]

We RECEIVED the 100, we didn't GIVE UP the 100.

Thus, the - symbol...instead of the + symbol for the other trade

 

[kerouac9]

You've been dissing Brown's advanced stats, but how do you factor in the difference based on QB play?

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...dave

You go to the year before, when Lamar Jackson was literally playing MVP-caliber football and Brown's advanced stats still sucked:

58th in DYAR (just ahead of Christian Kirk)
63rd in DVOA (well behind Kirk and actually negative)

Plus it's not all on the QB. Rashad Bateman outpaced Brown in advanced stats on half as many targets (46th in DYAR and 39th in DVOA -- both positive).

I agree that stating that Brown is going to put up significantly better stats than Kirk is a little far fetched. They are similar production players who do very different things in my opinion. Those differences are why I like the deal.

I also like that AJ Green can have a more age appropriate role which is why I don't believe that this really caps Rondale Moore who may also slated for a slight role change. Moore and Green at around 50% snaps isn't bad.

Maybe. Brown spent a full quarter of Baltimore's offensive snaps on the sideline last year and more than one in five the year before. I don't think this changes much from last season's rotations; I expect that Brown will get 100% of Kirk's snaps and Moore gets stuck being told "We have to find a way to get him the ball more" when he gets 60 targets next year.

I have real doubts that Marquise Brown can play outside in a more traditional (HA!) NFL offense. Lamar doesn't like to throw down the field outside the hashes much, so Brown was running a lot of in-breaking routes on the snaps he was in the slot. If Brown is playing Kirk's role, he's a slot receiver.

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I'm begging you, Cards Social Media, please stop trying to make "Bird City" happen.

 

[GatorAZ]

Keim is a moron.

Much more kind than what people are calling Pittsburg’s GM.

 

[Stout]

For now and no 1st round pick.

I like Brown. However, its clear we should have just used Kirk in the right spot early on and we would have signed him early for a much cheaper deal.

If he looks like a clear upgrade then it's a major win though.

As I said last night, the downside here is Keim's past mistakes having to be patched.

 

[speedy]

I’m way late to the game fellas- I woke up this morning and saw the news. I’ve made it through 15/37 pages of this thread and didn’t want to read anymore.

This was a good trade and it’s not even debatable. I’d give up what we did to get what we got any part of everyday.

How many receivers (at #23) are going to come in and have an immediate impact? This dude comes in and already does. Of course we need to pay him- big deal if it’s 2023-24 or 25-26 if we drafted one and crossed out fingers?

We gained pro bowl talent by moving 75 places back. Big deal yo

 

[Adrian]

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[kerouac9]

Agree but I feel like it is more about how they are productive vs the actual productivity.

Yeah I guess. Kirk was wildly efficient in his contract season (average DYAR and DVOA in the low 50s first three years, 9th and 8th last year), which was how he earned that big contract.

I don't really think their profile is that different.

 

[Dynomite]

Well, I mean no one has better training for how to really choke when the games start counting than OU players.

Ya the defensive coordinator didnt utilize his players well. There is evidence of defensive players from OU playing well in the NFL even though they did nothing in college or lost in college.

 

[Dynomite]

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look at how many of the deep balls were bad throws. I think he can be more explosive in our offense

I mean the 5-10 yard throws were wobblers.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You go to the year before, when Lamar Jackson was literally playing MVP-caliber football and Brown's advanced stats still sucked:

58th in DYAR (just ahead of Christian Kirk)
63rd in DVOA (well behind Kirk and actually negative)

Plus it's not all on the QB. Rashad Bateman outpaced Brown in advanced stats on half as many targets (46th in DYAR and 39th in DVOA -- both positive).

Maybe. Brown spent a full quarter of Baltimore's offensive snaps on the sideline last year and more than one in five the year before. I don't think this changes much from last season's rotations; I expect that Brown will get 100% of Kirk's snaps and Moore gets stuck being told "We have to find a way to get him the ball more" when he gets 60 targets next year.

I have real doubts that Marquise Brown can play outside in a more traditional (HA!) NFL offense. Lamar doesn't like to throw down the field outside the hashes much, so Brown was running a lot of in-breaking routes on the snaps he was in the slot. If Brown is playing Kirk's role, he's a slot receiver.



I'm begging you, Cards Social Media, please stop trying to make "Bird City" happen.

I think you're vastly underrating the concept that he wasn't excelling like he should based on how he was being used.

Hollywood basically said this during his press conference and that's the story based on what we're hearing from Baltimore as well (that he complained to the team about how he was used).

He stated that he's excited to play in an offense similar to his OU offense. And it's crazy to hear DeCosta admit they probably lost this trade.

 

[unseenaz]

I think you're vastly underrating the concept that he wasn't excelling like he should based on how he was being used.

Hollywood basically said this during his press conference and that's the story based on what we're hearing from Baltimore as well (that he complained to the team about how he was used).

He stated that he's excited to play in an offense similar to his OU offense. And it's crazy to hear DeCosta admit they probably lost this trade.

oof. I hope this isn't his way of saying he wants more targets, considering he had 91 last year.

 

[Red on White]

I truly can't understand alot of the hate.

It's a reflex whenever Keim does something. Kind of like:

Donny: They posted the next round of the tournament--

Walter: Donny, shut the f--when do we play?


What the f*** are you doing, Keim??!!

...actually this move isn't too bad

 

[Krangodnzr]

oof. I hope this isn't his way of saying he wants more targets, considering he had 91 last year.

No. He literally said it wasn't touches, it was how he was getting his touches.

 

[BritCard]

No. He literally said it wasn't touches, it was how he was getting his touches.

Yeah he said he would bare see a target for 3 quarters then when down in the 4th they would wake up and he'd get 6-7.

 

[kerouac9]

I think you're vastly underrating the concept that he wasn't excelling like he should based on how he was being used.

Hollywood basically said this during his press conference and that's the story based on what we're hearing from Baltimore as well (that he complained to the team about how he was used).

He stated that he's excited to play in an offense similar to his OU offense. And it's crazy to hear DeCosta admit they probably lost this trade.

Sorry, Krang. You're gonna have to be more specific here. I'm sure that if you surveyed the NFL, you'd find scads of players underperforming their draft status who blame their coaches, the system, their teammates -- anyone else but themselves as the REAL reason they're not First-Team All-Pro.

I'm unconvinced. Show me the data. Here's what I see:

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Brown's usage increased 50% because he was asked to be a catch-and-run guy. He set career highs in receptions and yardage but was sad because his TDs weren't as high and he wasn't making as many splash plays.

Boo hoo that you're not being used like J.J. Nelson. Another Sooner who doesn't like to get tackled.

I just don't really know where you think he's going to be used differently in Kingsbury and Kyler's Horizontal Raid.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I just have one question: Considering our needs, why wouldn't we have taken Jermaine Johnson since he was a top 10 pick who fell. Seems like just what you hope for when drafting.

 

[unseenaz]

The fact that Kyler trains with Kyler when they weren't on the same team means something IMO.

I mean... not to beat a dead horse here, but he was training with a WR from a different team while his team was in the valley for organized team activities. maybe this will change that moving forward.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Lets go full Oklahoma and get bonito for the rush and winfrey for DT lol

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[football karma]

I just have one question: Considering our needs, why wouldn't we have taken Jermaine Johnson since he was a top 10 pick who fell. Seems like just what you hope for when drafting.

Johnson, by definition, isn't a top 10 pick

 

[Chopper0080]

I mean... not to beat a dead horse here, but he was training with a WR from a different team while his team was in the valley for organized team activities. maybe this will change that moving forward.

This was in FEB/MAR Not recent.